Ben
VSL
Sorry, right now I can't check it myself. Please contact support@vsl.co.at and my colleagues will definitely investigate this issue.
VSL Mystery release??? (UPDATE: Synchron Duality Strings)
- Thread starter Midimaster
- Start date
- Watchers 106
I don't know if you already tried it but maybe it is easier if you start your custom preset from the VSL "VeXF + Velocity Crossfade" preset and, instead of editing any single short note patch, you copy (Ctrl+C) the entire Short Notes tree from the VSL "VelXF sus - MOD" preset and paste it (Ctrl+V) to your custom preset. In this way all settings of the original VSL preset are copied into your custom preset.
https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/synchron-player/dimension-tree-view#slot-context-menu
Hope this help you.
mducharme
Senior Member
Thanks! I was using the copy and paste function, but I kindof assumed it wouldn't work between presets, only within the preset. That would definitely save some work.
However I do still think that VSL should look at including a "VelXF sus + Velocity Crossfade" option so that all users could benefit from it.
Last edited:
Triggered by the fantastisk mock-up of the introduction to Mozarts 40th symphony the other day by @Dan, I got inspired to take on a similar quest of my own. I have owned some VSL Synchron libraries for about a year and also recently bought Duality strings, but never really found the time to enter the world of the synchron player and VSL work-flow which can take me to a level where I actually create real music. For the record, I am a mere hobbyist with two kids and a big old house where something constantly is broken and needs fixing and... You get the picture...
I wanted to attempt a mock-up of a Mozart piece, but a piece with a different style than the one Dan recreated. A piece which is fast and where I could put the new Duality strings to the test for fast repetitions and fast legato. I chose the ouverture to Mozart's opera Figaro's wedding. It is essentially four minutes of mere speed and frenzy, but nevertheless should be played elegantly :o)
In order to succeed within a reasonable time frame, I put up a number of constraints for this version:
Use ONLY CC1 for legato/longs etc. and ONLY velocity control for the shorts. Thus, no fiddling with expression, with timbre adjust, or any other controller.
Use ONLY the factory settings available by VSL (VelXF sus - MOD) and ONLY the mics from the standard version.
The quest has then been to come as close as possible to a recording of a real orchestra but with focus put on the "virtual musicians" - not replicating the recording/mastering part etc. Work has thus focussed on trying to recreate musical phrasing (that part was highly inspired by Dan!) and to have the best articulations chosen for the different phrases. The tempo is manually synched to the tempo of the recording by Marriner from 1982:
https://www.discogs.com/master/5195...-Academy-Of-St-Martin-in-the-Fields-Overtures
As for mixing, I did not do much at all. Starting off from the default mix which loads with the factory settings of the standard version of the synchron libraries, I have merely boosted the solo mics for the woodwinds, and the stage B mic for Duality strings on violin 1 and celli. Everything else is default settings.
Everything is VSL (Synchron Woodwinds, Synchron Brass and Duality strings, all in their standard versions) except the Timpani which is the Berlin Timpani with baroque mallets and I have layered the first violins with one of the solo violins from Spitfire Solo Strings.
The celli and double basses underwent filtering to decrease the heavy lower end. Default reverb settings was kept untouched in the Synchron player, and a small tail from Cinematic rooms professional was put on all instruments except the timpani. No mastering was made on this version. So as you see, this version is nearly "out of the box".
One reason to write all the above information, and post in this thread, is that it is IMHO astonishing how close it is possible to replicate this piece using the VSL synchron range, and expecially the new duality strings, even with this quite crude approach. The key to success is in my opinion duality strings. This library is definately a big step forward for VSL - not only for the stage A - stage B - mastering aspect, which may be the most obvious USP commersially, but for all improvements made through-out the whole instrument. There are still aspects which could be improved upon, but I did not find them to be severly limiting for creating musically convincing phrases, at least not in this piece.
The weakest link in the chain is probably the Synchron Woodwinds. This library may be OK for "bigger" pieces where you have a lot going on, but fails to deliver solo parts which have enough virtuosity to replicate the way a Mozart piece should be played. It has a tendency to sometimes sound like an organ, albeit sonically a very nice sounding one. After having been lurkling on this forum for some time, I recollect that the Synchron-ized Woodwinds have been presented as a better alternative. I may invest in these at some time.
Well, that was my five cents. Hope it may help some who are still not convinced to get this library ;o) ( At least among fellow Mozart fans... )
View attachment Mozart - Figaros wedding VSL.mp3
I wanted to attempt a mock-up of a Mozart piece, but a piece with a different style than the one Dan recreated. A piece which is fast and where I could put the new Duality strings to the test for fast repetitions and fast legato. I chose the ouverture to Mozart's opera Figaro's wedding. It is essentially four minutes of mere speed and frenzy, but nevertheless should be played elegantly :o)
In order to succeed within a reasonable time frame, I put up a number of constraints for this version:
Use ONLY CC1 for legato/longs etc. and ONLY velocity control for the shorts. Thus, no fiddling with expression, with timbre adjust, or any other controller.
Use ONLY the factory settings available by VSL (VelXF sus - MOD) and ONLY the mics from the standard version.
The quest has then been to come as close as possible to a recording of a real orchestra but with focus put on the "virtual musicians" - not replicating the recording/mastering part etc. Work has thus focussed on trying to recreate musical phrasing (that part was highly inspired by Dan!) and to have the best articulations chosen for the different phrases. The tempo is manually synched to the tempo of the recording by Marriner from 1982:
https://www.discogs.com/master/5195...-Academy-Of-St-Martin-in-the-Fields-Overtures
As for mixing, I did not do much at all. Starting off from the default mix which loads with the factory settings of the standard version of the synchron libraries, I have merely boosted the solo mics for the woodwinds, and the stage B mic for Duality strings on violin 1 and celli. Everything else is default settings.
Everything is VSL (Synchron Woodwinds, Synchron Brass and Duality strings, all in their standard versions) except the Timpani which is the Berlin Timpani with baroque mallets and I have layered the first violins with one of the solo violins from Spitfire Solo Strings.
The celli and double basses underwent filtering to decrease the heavy lower end. Default reverb settings was kept untouched in the Synchron player, and a small tail from Cinematic rooms professional was put on all instruments except the timpani. No mastering was made on this version. So as you see, this version is nearly "out of the box".
One reason to write all the above information, and post in this thread, is that it is IMHO astonishing how close it is possible to replicate this piece using the VSL synchron range, and expecially the new duality strings, even with this quite crude approach. The key to success is in my opinion duality strings. This library is definately a big step forward for VSL - not only for the stage A - stage B - mastering aspect, which may be the most obvious USP commersially, but for all improvements made through-out the whole instrument. There are still aspects which could be improved upon, but I did not find them to be severly limiting for creating musically convincing phrases, at least not in this piece.
The weakest link in the chain is probably the Synchron Woodwinds. This library may be OK for "bigger" pieces where you have a lot going on, but fails to deliver solo parts which have enough virtuosity to replicate the way a Mozart piece should be played. It has a tendency to sometimes sound like an organ, albeit sonically a very nice sounding one. After having been lurkling on this forum for some time, I recollect that the Synchron-ized Woodwinds have been presented as a better alternative. I may invest in these at some time.
Well, that was my five cents. Hope it may help some who are still not convinced to get this library ;o) ( At least among fellow Mozart fans... )
View attachment Mozart - Figaros wedding VSL.mp3
Jeremy Spencer
Senior Member
I'm really picky when to comes to hearing VI demos that portray realism....you've done it! I agree about the woodwinds, but the strings sound exquisite. Excellent work.
Rubens Tubenchlak
Member
About divisi… would you prefer to combine Duality with SSP or stay in one all-Duality environment?
Awesome! Beautifully done!
You managed to bring across the pure joy and energy of the piece in a way that I find very convincing.
Duality Strings really can keep up with this kind of music.
I also agree about the woodwinds. Owning both Synchron Woodwinds and Synchronized Woodwinds, I especially prefer the smoother fast legatos and the beautiful pure legato patches of the older Synchronized library. I think the fact that the instruments were originally recorded dry really helps with the impression of smooth and natural transitions.
djburton
Old New Member
Just. Wow. Gives me hope.
MaxOctane
I married an LLM
Mozart is excellent. But now and then he seems to have (how shall one say?)…Too many notes.
Beat Kaufmann
Senior Member
I see it a little differently. Maybe you got a preset that puts the woodwinds in a somewhat bad light. Try using the DEFAULT preset. Then adjust the microphones and the balance control to the desired position in the room.
Alternatively, if you choose a VSL preset, turn off all EQs in the SYNCHRON-Player-Mixer. The presets are often a bit discolored, especially if they are supposed to simulate a great depth.
I played a short sequence of your Figaro and set all woodwinds to DEFAULT. In between you can hear a bit of violins 1+2 (Duality). Do you also think it sounds like woodwinds and not like an organ? (listen to the file attached).
Anyway, I'm excited about the Woodwinds, even though I have the "old Woodwinds" as well.
--------------------------------------------
Here are two links to other SYNCHRON-Woodwind demos (all with DEFAULT)
- Grieg: Holbergsuite (OK, a bit daring)
- Sibelius: Finlandia (High Woodwinds+Strings / Woodwinds+Strings / Woodwinds+Brass+Strings)
Maybe this Video also helps...
Have Fun
Beat
Last edited:
pinki
Senior Member
Great idea! And I think it contributes massively to the illusion of reality.
First of all I would like to thank all thread participants for your nice (and therefore encouraging) comments! Much appreciated.
Thank's @Beat Kaufmann for your detailed comments and example. I unfortunately do not have time to fiddle with this right now, but am encouraged to test what you suggest within a couple of days time. However, to complicate matters somewhat I put forward the theory that the "sounds like an organ"-aspect may have more than one origin.
You are focussing on the way the instruments are placed in the room and just by listening to your example I agree with you that it has a profound effect on increasing the realism (i.e. reducing the association to an organ). In my mock-up, I merely used the VSL Classic room mix (this is what I referred to as the "default mix" in my original post, since the plugin initiates this mix setting when first selected, i.e. the "out-of-the-box" setting...). I then increased the close mics for all woodwinds but did nothing else. This was only done to make it easier to hear the solo parts. I never really attempted to do real mixing.
However, mixing follows after the "virtual musician" has played a musical phrase. And I did not really get the SW "musicians" to behave as I would have liked with the articulations at hand. One prominent example is where the first flute and Oboe plays the solo parts just after the main theme has ended the first time:
I simply could not find any articulations which are enough expresive and being expressive early enough in the note. For a slower piece, the con vibrato articulations are probably OK, but the vibrato never has time to kick in when playing this fast. Then again, I confess that I have not explored this in detail, so there may be ways to improve the woodwind solo phrases also with SW (indeed, your demo strongly suggest that). However, this was what I mostly meant with my organ-comment.
Thank's @Beat Kaufmann for your detailed comments and example. I unfortunately do not have time to fiddle with this right now, but am encouraged to test what you suggest within a couple of days time. However, to complicate matters somewhat I put forward the theory that the "sounds like an organ"-aspect may have more than one origin.
You are focussing on the way the instruments are placed in the room and just by listening to your example I agree with you that it has a profound effect on increasing the realism (i.e. reducing the association to an organ). In my mock-up, I merely used the VSL Classic room mix (this is what I referred to as the "default mix" in my original post, since the plugin initiates this mix setting when first selected, i.e. the "out-of-the-box" setting...). I then increased the close mics for all woodwinds but did nothing else. This was only done to make it easier to hear the solo parts. I never really attempted to do real mixing.
However, mixing follows after the "virtual musician" has played a musical phrase. And I did not really get the SW "musicians" to behave as I would have liked with the articulations at hand. One prominent example is where the first flute and Oboe plays the solo parts just after the main theme has ended the first time:
I simply could not find any articulations which are enough expresive and being expressive early enough in the note. For a slower piece, the con vibrato articulations are probably OK, but the vibrato never has time to kick in when playing this fast. Then again, I confess that I have not explored this in detail, so there may be ways to improve the woodwind solo phrases also with SW (indeed, your demo strongly suggest that). However, this was what I mostly meant with my organ-comment.
Seizh Avel
Member
Hi,
as someone noticed in a previous post, the shots and tremolos are very good and expressive in this library, better than in my other libraries. I used a midi file created a few years ago (98% of short notes and tremolos, 0% legato), for which I had not found at this time, the right library to complete it. It's now done...
The work is still in progress (I’m not a specialist in mixing or mastering ). All instruments use the Decca classic mix with default settings.
The other instruments are Synchron brass (Horns), Synchron woodwinds (Oboes and bassoons) and synchronized percussion (Timpani for a couple of seconds).
It's not Mozart, but Gluck (Orphée & Eurydice (French version), Dance of the Furies)
View attachment Mixdown Decca mix.mp3
as someone noticed in a previous post, the shots and tremolos are very good and expressive in this library, better than in my other libraries. I used a midi file created a few years ago (98% of short notes and tremolos, 0% legato), for which I had not found at this time, the right library to complete it. It's now done...
The work is still in progress (I’m not a specialist in mixing or mastering ). All instruments use the Decca classic mix with default settings.
The other instruments are Synchron brass (Horns), Synchron woodwinds (Oboes and bassoons) and synchronized percussion (Timpani for a couple of seconds).
It's not Mozart, but Gluck (Orphée & Eurydice (French version), Dance of the Furies)
View attachment Mixdown Decca mix.mp3
muziksculp
Senior Member
I just stumbled across this YT video.
I don't have allot of experience using orchestral VSTi's but wow, this library in this demo, to my ears, sounds the most realistic of any I've ever heard.
I'm sure much of it has to do with Mr. Bachus' skill but it makes me want to purchase this library even though I really can't justify it.
I have Synchron Strings Pro and amateur that I am, I'll probably never fully exploit Strings Pro let alone the Duality Strings but let me ask those of you who have Strings Pro and have since purchased Duality, are you still finding any use for Strings Pro?
Storm and Serenity
I don't have allot of experience using orchestral VSTi's but wow, this library in this demo, to my ears, sounds the most realistic of any I've ever heard.
I'm sure much of it has to do with Mr. Bachus' skill but it makes me want to purchase this library even though I really can't justify it.
I have Synchron Strings Pro and amateur that I am, I'll probably never fully exploit Strings Pro let alone the Duality Strings but let me ask those of you who have Strings Pro and have since purchased Duality, are you still finding any use for Strings Pro?
Storm and Serenity
ennbr
Senior Member
Tony you can download the 30 day trial right now and test it out using your on material
