Spitfire business things

[KurtisDig]

He predicted layoffs at a company that had recently been acquired by a much larger company. Was this a revelation? And what did he predict about Spotify? That it was a dying company that doesn't pay musicians enough compared to Bandcamp based on one specific dataset (his album)?

And yet the prediction was correct. You were asking "Why would you trust anything that Benn Jordan says?", insinuating he's talking out of his ass and then followed up with "his musical career was short and peaked well over a decade ago" as a justification.
The video about Spotify uses a lot more data than just his own music. But I was more referring to his successful short selling of Spotify, Nebula/ Curiosity Stream stock, which he correctly predicted to fall, backing his predictions on research and data, which he shared publicly. If you want to have a look, it's all on his Twitter.
So in my personal opinion he's doing his due diligence before making predictions. And that's why I took issue with your unsubstantiated attack. He's no Jim Cramer.

 

[Manontroppo]

I'm not a fanboy of SA (not until the player is multitimbral) but my wife is a certified management accountant, "CFO" of a company that does business all around the globe. She gives a =§$&% on rumours, YT-experts and anonymous forum posts when it comes to judge the financial health of any company. As long as you can not see any proper numbers (in Germany a company like SA would be quite "transparent" for everyone regarding the financial position, the important numbers are open to the public) you can only guess what's going on. And if I as a owner would be in some sort of trouble with a company like SA, I would not tell it to the public, I'd rather camouflage what is going on.
In the end, nobody has a safe investment. Just imagine Paul sells his share to a new investor, buys some tropical island, and the new guy is ruining the company completely because he only had experience with plug-in car manufacturing ...
It's complex, most of us don't know nothing, so let's make music instead. If SA goes down the drain we will learn about it soon enough.
(my one and only post on this topic)

 

[Fat Robot]

I mean, I’m one person, but Spitfire was my go-to sample company from 2017-2022. Over time, seeing the erosion of reliability and QA while promoting a new library every 4 weeks is already enough to make me step away. So far, there’s no sign of an improvement there and that’s completely on the business and software development people.

After the Incident however, I just won’t even bother engaging with this company anymore and by extension whatever CH’s new venture. There needs to be no space for hate, and no support for people who spread the word of Jordan Peterson and JK Rowling. I continue to be disappointed in VI-C’s support of him.

To each their own. Silencing and cancelling is a last ditch effort from those that fear discussion and understanding. I prefer to build connections with people, even if we disagree on beliefs!

 

[General_Disarray]

Whatever the case there, the changes did seem to start when Christian "took a step back" some time ago. Personally, I think SF took a lot of heat for distancing themselves from Christian; I think the silent (extremely vast) majority: a) feels that every human should have the right to be what and who they want to be, and b) agrees with what Christian said.

Count me in the group that felt Christian took too much crap for that whole issue. As a liberal myself, I try not to cancel someone just because it's what most of the people like me do. When I did some digging into the issue, I sided with him completely, especially when he said it as a parent. But it seems to me that Spitfire back then put him in a corner and hid him from the world as if he had said that he hates the LGBTQ community, which he didn't. Neither does J.K. Rowling if you read her essay from start to finish.

Monica Lewinsky produced a great documentary on HBO a year or two ago about people who get canceled and receive a lot of hatred for something they didn't do, like the hispanic man who was supposedly photographed with his hand out the window of his truck going the hand symbol for white supremacy, when the guy was hispanic, and also he was just moving his fingers around out of habit, like many people do, myself included.

My point is, let's cancel the people who really deserved to be cancelled, not the ones who are good people that have an opinion different to yours.

That issue aside, to me Spitfire seems too expensive for what it offers. I caught several of their sales, so I got Hans Zimmer Strings for $400 (50% off), Hans Zimmer Percussion Professional for $300 (50% off) and a few more. But those two are libraries that I wouldn't buy after knowing them for even 50% off.

When you think of Hans Zimmer, you think epic, powerful, badass, you name it. Especially if you have the Blu-ray for the 2017 Prague concert where you can see the gigantic ensemble he directs.

But the Hans Zimmer Strings are... meh. I have bought several other libraries since then that sound way more powerful. Cinestrings is one of them, even Steinberg's Iconica Ensembles, and many others. And while the presets say that it's 60 violins, it definitely doesn't sound like 60 violinists are playing at the same time.

Hans Zimmer Percussion is interesting, definitely has some instruments that are not common, but the one thing that stands out to me is that they sound the worst of any percussion library I have. They seem recorded by cheap microphones. They don't sound terrible, but when I load the same instrument (timpani or taiko for example), the other library will sound much better.

Now, their Appassionata Strings are great, and some of the $30 series are great too. But after spending a good amount of money in the HZ libraries, I wouldn't spend hundreds on any other SPF library unless I had a chance to play with it for a while.

 

[Aitcpiano]

Hans Zimmer Percussion is interesting, definitely has some instruments that are not common, but the one thing that stands out to me is that they sound the worst of any percussion library I have. They seem recorded by cheap microphones. They don't sound terrible, but when I load the same instrument (timpani or taiko for example), the other library will sound much better.

Now, their Appassionata Strings are great, and some of the $30 series are great too. But after spending a good amount of money in the HZ libraries, I wouldn't spend hundreds on any other SPF library unless I had a chance to play with it for a while.

I suppose all these things are subjective. For me HZ perc is one of my favourite percussion libraries. However, I have similar views to you in that I would not buy any more of the expensive Spitfire libraries without first being able to try them or without any resale value.

 

[ALittleNightMusic]

It’s pretty interesting that the common complaint about HZ Strings (which I don’t own) is that they don’t have HZ’s “sound”. But on the other hand, they were specifically recorded initially for HZ to use on Dunkirk (and remained on the score). Maybe it is a case of the marketing not conveying the aesthetic focus appropriately - or people thinking HZ has one specific signature sound.

 

[robgb]

I have to say that Mr. Henson has certainly been busy the last several months. Three movies and a television show? Congratulations.

 

[robgb]

What every successful entrepreneur hears when they start something new, right before they ignore it and succeed anyway.

When I wrote my first screenplay I was told I'd never sell it. I sold it a year later. When I wrote my first novel, I was told I'd never get interest from a publisher. I signed a two book deal three months later and have made multiple deals since. I have learned, over the many years, to NEVER listen to naysayers.

 

[emokeez]

Count me in the group that felt Christian took too much crap for that whole issue. As a liberal myself, I try not to cancel someone just because it's what most of the people like me do. When I did some digging into the issue, I sided with him completely, especially when he said it as a parent. But it seems to me that Spitfire back then put him in a corner and hid him from the world as if he had said that he hates the LGBTQ community, which he didn't. Neither does J.K. Rowling if you read her essay from start to finish.

Monica Lewinsky produced a great documentary on HBO a year or two ago about people who get canceled and receive a lot of hatred for something they didn't do, like the hispanic man who was supposedly photographed with his hand out the window of his truck going the hand symbol for white supremacy, when the guy was hispanic, and also he was just moving his fingers around out of habit, like many people do, myself included.

My point is, let's cancel the people who really deserved to be cancelled, not the ones who are good people that have an opinion different to yours.

That issue aside, to me Spitfire seems too expensive for what it offers. I caught several of their sales, so I got Hans Zimmer Strings for $400 (50% off), Hans Zimmer Percussion Professional for $300 (50% off) and a few more. But those two are libraries that I wouldn't buy after knowing them for even 50% off.

When you think of Hans Zimmer, you think epic, powerful, badass, you name it. Especially if you have the Blu-ray for the 2017 Prague concert where you can see the gigantic ensemble he directs.

But the Hans Zimmer Strings are... meh. I have bought several other libraries since then that sound way more powerful. Cinestrings is one of them, even Steinberg's Iconica Ensembles, and many others. And while the presets say that it's 60 violins, it definitely doesn't sound like 60 violinists are playing at the same time.

Hans Zimmer Percussion is interesting, definitely has some instruments that are not common, but the one thing that stands out to me is that they sound the worst of any percussion library I have. They seem recorded by cheap microphones. They don't sound terrible, but when I load the same instrument (timpani or taiko for example), the other library will sound much better.

Now, their Appassionata Strings are great, and some of the $30 series are great too. But after spending a good amount of money in the HZ libraries, I wouldn't spend hundreds on any other SPF library unless I had a chance to play with it for a while.

I’m not a pro. I don’t compose for film, TV or even my wife. So my opinion is probably inconsequential to most people on this forum.

But there’s something special about the actual sound of the spitfire products I have and those I lust after that is different to some of the other libraries around.

And by different I don’t mean better. But to my ears, which may be accustomed to a more ‘British’ sound are instantly drawn to the likes of Abbey Road Iconic strings 2.

And the quality of the ‘cheapo’ Originals is crazy. I much prefer them to say the strings in Musio for the actual sound. That’s a subjective thing obviously but they sound somehow more real, nuanced and human. Less Hollywood and less polished. They haven’t photoshopped the blemishes out.

Which really appeals to me.

I can understand the converse opinion will be held by many.

One last thought. As a hobbyist (hate that word but can’t think of a better word to describe what I do which is basically make music with all the energy and passion I can muster for an audience of me and my mate that I make music with) it’s incredible that we can access these sounds.

They’ve been transformative in my tiny little world.

I just wish I had these libraries 20 years ago when I had more time and energy!!

 

[robgb]

And by different I don’t mean better. But to my ears, which may be accustomed to a more ‘British’ sound are instantly drawn to the likes of Abbey Road Iconic strings 2.

I remember, many years ago, when I asked an established composer what string library I should get, he suggested LASS. When I said, "What about Spitfire?" he responded with, "They're good, but they sound very British."

 

[Keith Cocker]

I remember, many years ago, when I asked an established composer what string library I should get, he suggested LASS. When I said, "What about Spitfire?" he responded with, "They're good, but they sound very British."

That's why I like them!

 

[jbuhler]

It’s pretty interesting that the common complaint about HZ Strings (which I don’t own) is that they don’t have HZ’s “sound”. But on the other hand, they were specifically recorded initially for HZ to use on Dunkirk (and remained on the score). Maybe it is a case of the marketing not conveying the aesthetic focus appropriately - or people thinking HZ has one specific signature sound.

This is one I do put squarely at the feet of SF marketing. The demos, walkthroughs, and articulation list were clear enough that this library conception was Dunkirk Strings. But SF marketing insisted on marketing it as though it was the sound of Zimmer everyone associated with his films from a decade earlier and the library was not that. SF did go back and add quite a lot of new articulations that mostly filled in the gap that their marketing created but not until a lot of angry pixels filled this and other forums. Im not sure the library ever really recovered from that. The other thing is it was the first SF plugin library and had predictable issues with that, and the original legato was at best marginal.

 

[annatar]

Neither does J.K. Rowling if you read her essay from start to finish.

i implore you to look a little more closely, like actually the smallest possible unit of a closer look would do

I prefer to build connections with people, even if we disagree on beliefs!

that must be super easy with people who don't burn their entire life to the ground to promote hatred and cruelty against you

 

[redlester]

I think am right in saying Homay and Oliver are still working for Spitfire, but other than that their other in-house composers all seem to have gone. Dan Keen, of course, but also Louis Rugg and Lucie Treacher have moved on to other things. It's not the same company that it was, and feels like it's really struggling for focus. The latest Eric Whitaker release seems like trying to re-create old classics from their history but there is something missing now.

Brits on here might know what am getting at with this comment, but it feels to me like as a company they are the Manchester United of the sampling world, constantly looking to find something that's been lost. I used to think of them as the Factory Records of the sampling world. Another company which innovated prior to disintegrating.

 

[jules]

It's not the same company that is was

They should have stayed with kontakt.

 

[N.Caffrey]

I think am right in saying Homay and Oliver are still working for Spitfire, but other than that their other in-house composers all seem to have gone. Dan Keen, of course, but also Louis Rugg and Lucie Treacher have moved on to other things. It's not the same company that it was, and feels like it's really struggling for focus. The latest Eric Whitaker release seems like trying to re-create old classics from their history but there is something missing now.

Brits on here might know what am getting at with this comment, but it feels to me like as a company they are the Manchester United of the sampling world, constantly looking to find something that's been lost. I used to think of them as the Factory Records of the sampling world. Another company which innovated prior to disintegrating.

I know of Dan Keen, who is still making demos by the way (ARV1 and latest Eric Whitacre). How do you know about the other two? And what are they doing?

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

I think am right in saying Homay and Oliver are still working for Spitfire, but other than that their other in-house composers all seem to have gone. Dan Keen, of course, but also Louis Rugg and Lucie Treacher have moved on to other things. It's not the same company that it was, and feels like it's really struggling for focus. The latest Eric Whitaker release seems like trying to re-create old classics from their history but there is something missing now.

Brits on here might know what am getting at with this comment, but it feels to me like as a company they are the Manchester United of the sampling world, constantly looking to find something that's been lost. I used to think of them as the Factory Records of the sampling world. Another company which innovated prior to disintegrating.

Spitfire does seem like a changed company which I think has a lot to do with Christian Henson.

Him departing seems to have made it very clear exactly what his contribution was to Spitfire.

Their image as being an innovative and colorful company bubbling with passion and a little crazyness (in a good way!) - it's just not the same anymore.

 

[rembrant]

I'm not a fanboy of SA (not until the player is multitimbral) but my wife is a certified management accountant, "CFO" of a company that does business all around the globe. She gives a =§$&% on rumours, YT-experts and anonymous forum posts when it comes to judge the financial health of any company. As long as you can not see any proper numbers (in Germany a company like SA would be quite "transparent" for everyone regarding the financial position, the important numbers are open to the public) you can only guess what's going on....

The numbers are open the public in the UK too, you just need to know where to look, which any CFO should.

I think am right in saying Homay and Oliver are still working for Spitfire, but other than that their other in-house composers all seem to have gone. Dan Keen, of course, but also Louis Rugg and Lucie Treacher have moved on to other things. It's not the same company that it was, and feels like it's really struggling for focus. The latest Eric Whitaker release seems like trying to re-create old classics from their history but there is something missing now.

Brits on here might know what am getting at with this comment, but it feels to me like as a company they are the Manchester United of the sampling world, constantly looking to find something that's been lost. I used to think of them as the Factory Records of the sampling world. Another company which innovated prior to disintegrating.

No offence to the guy, but what did he bring the table? His walkthroughs were pretty bland and the only thing I remember him saying was a really awkward joke about labelling the women's toilets in the SA office "FLABS" which all the middle class white men laughed about - arguably indicative of the culture there at the time.

 

[redlester]

I know of Dan Keen, who is still making demos by the way (ARV1 and latest Eric Whitacre). How do you know about the other two? And what are they doing?

Dan must still be doing stuff freelance for them, I remember him announcing that he was departing their employment.

According to Linkedin Louis Rugg is Mail Order & Events Assistant at Banquet Records having left Spitfire in January.

Lucie Treacher left in October 2022 and is now working at both Brain Audio and Ustwo. Didn't Ustwo design the Spitfire plugin interface?

 

[redlester]

The numbers are open the public in the UK too, you just need to know where to look, which any CFO should.

No offence to the guy, but what did he bring the table? His walkthroughs were pretty bland and the only thing I remember him saying was a really awkward joke about labelling the women's toilets in the SA office "FLABS" which all the middle class white men laughed about - arguably indicative of the culture there at the time.

I remember his demo of Labs Synths, which I think was his first one and was rather good. I remember watching it several times. Other than that he seemed more than capable, if not particularly a natural as a presenter. Mind you I found Dan Keen's demos rather bland and uninspiring as well, even though he's obviously very talented.

I don't think Spitfire was ever the same after Covid, the energy and inspiration seemed to drain out of it all. (Of course, there may have been an element of myself becoming jaded by the constant releases and demos). Christian's tweet and its fall-out felt like the culmination of many things.

I'll always follow what Christian is up to with interest although it will always be with a nagging sadness about the way things panned out. The fact I feel that sadness illustrates how successful they had previously been at creating a 'family & friends' vibe around the company, that Christian's infectious personality made hard to resist. I remember going to their open day at 2019 Black Friday and it really did feel like belonging to something. Nowadays, I no longer even follow them on YouTube.

Does anyone know if they still have their office in Brooklyn?