Berlin Studio - The Ultimate Reverb Test

[JotaArkham]

Hi, I'm trying to use this reverb within an orchestral template... What's the best way to set it up? So far I am sending each instrument to a bus with the BS reverb set to the appropriate preset for that instrument.

For example, flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons sent to a bus with one instance of BS Studio (Woodwinds preset).

Violins 1 sent to a bus with one instance of BS Studio (Violins 1 preset).

And so on...

This implies that any standard orchestral template needs at least 12 instances of the plugin (v1, v2, vas, vcs, cbs, tpts, tbns, tbas, hns -forward, up or normal-, woodwinds, perc -forward, upward or large- and choir). It's right?

Thanks in advance.

 

[river angler]

Hi, I'm trying to use this reverb within an orchestral template... What's the best way to set it up? So far I am sending each instrument to a bus with the BS reverb set to the appropriate preset for that instrument.

For example, flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons sent to a bus with one instance of BS Studio (Woodwinds preset).

Violins 1 sent to a bus with one instance of BS Studio (Violins 1 preset).

And so on...

This implies that any standard orchestral template needs at least 12 instances of the plugin (v1, v2, vas, vcs, cbs, tpts, tbns, tbas, hns -forward, up or normal-, woodwinds, perc -forward, upward or large- and choir). It's right?

Thanks in advance.

You are indeed using the plugin as designed!

However for Berlin Studio to really do its magic you need to work with bone dry samples i.e. samples that were recorded without room ambience. If you work with Spitfire samples for example even their room mic samples still have some of that Air Lyndhurst baked in ambience so they are not the ideal orchestral samples to work with Berlin Studio.

For me Berlin Studio has completely changed the way I approach mixing in that I now pre mix all the instrument sections (using bone dry Chris Hein samples) then when all the volume/automated volume balances are sounding correct bone dry, when I switch in all relative instances of BS it's such a joy to hear the orchestra suddenly come alive just like you are sitting in that Teldex Studio (or by altering the reverb tails an auditorium version of it!) watching a real orchestra playing your composition! The initial bone dry mixing phase is also great for really hearing any small mistakes notationally within more complex/dense orchestral arrangement.

You should find that once you have all those twelve (or all 18 possible stage positions!) sectional instances set up, as long as you have level mixed the dry instruments in relation to each other coherently prior to activating the Berlin Studio instances on each buss stem, everything should fall into place naturally when you then switch the instances in.

One thing I have found is that if you need to alter the wet/dry mix- you should alter each instance by the same amount. If you are mixing a concerto don't forget to bus the featured soloists to the front of stage position!

I've yet felt the need to fiddle with any of the other parameters: this plugin works so consistently! However it is imperative you premix everything beforehand to get the best out of it. This includes making sure all your articulations are performing as realistically as possible.... After all as Berlin Studio is an ultimately realistic IR ambience reverb captured from one of the most famous scoring stages on the the planet, you owe it to your compositions to get the instruments playing as realistically as possible too!

I think Berlin Studio is the most astonishing plugin to hit the market ever!- certainly in the realistic reverb/ambience category. Not just because it sounds supremely realistic in itself but because it is that realism that encourages you to ring out the best performance you can from whatever samples you are using... this in turn also helps you develop your notational composition skills too!

Hence this plugin is not only inspirational sonically but also highly edifying to use!

Enjoy!

 

[Peter Roos]

@river angler : thanks so much for your kind words and answering the question above!
Much appreciated

 

[JotaArkham]

You are indeed using the plugin as designed!

However for Berlin Studio to really do its magic you need to work with bone dry samples i.e. samples that were recorded without room ambience. If you work with Spitfire samples for example even their room mic samples still have some of that Air Lyndhurst baked in ambience so they are not the ideal orchestral samples to work with Berlin Studio.

For me Berlin Studio has completely changed the way I approach mixing in that I now pre mix all the instrument sections (using bone dry Chris Hein samples) then when all the volume/automated volume balances are sounding correct bone dry, when I switch in all relative instances of BS it's such a joy to hear the orchestra suddenly come alive just like you are sitting in that Teldex Studio (or by altering the reverb tails an auditorium version of it!) watching a real orchestra playing your composition! The initial bone dry mixing phase is also great for really hearing any small mistakes notationally within more complex/dense orchestral arrangement.

You should find that once you have all those twelve (or all 18 possible stage positions!) sectional instances set up, as long as you have level mixed the dry instruments in relation to each other coherently prior to activating the Berlin Studio instances on each buss stem, everything should fall into place naturally when you then switch the instances in.

One thing I have found is that if you need to alter the wet/dry mix- you should alter each instance by the same amount. If you are mixing a concerto don't forget to bus the featured soloists to the front of stage position!

I've yet felt the need to fiddle with any of the other parameters: this plugin works so consistently! However it is imperative you premix everything beforehand to get the best out of it. This includes making sure all your articulations are performing as realistically as possible.... After all as Berlin Studio is an ultimately realistic IR ambience reverb captured from one of the most famous scoring stages on the the planet, you owe it to your compositions to get the instruments playing as realistically as possible too!

I think Berlin Studio is the most astonishing plugin to hit the market ever!- certainly in the realistic reverb/ambience category. Not just because it sounds supremely realistic in itself but because it is that realism that encourages you to ring out the best performance you can from whatever samples you are using... this in turn also helps you develop your notational composition skills too!

Hence this plugin is not only inspirational sonically but also highly edifying to use!

Enjoy!

Many thanks River angler!

I'm going to do some tests with the close mics, although I'm afraid I'll lose the body that other mics like the Decca Tree give to the overall sound... I suppose we have to reach a compromise solution, perhaps lowering the room mics appreciably and boosting the close/dry ones. Your advices are very valuable. Time to experiment!

 

[Peter Roos]

Don't forget you can lower Berlin Studio's recorded early reflections for source material that already has ER content of itself. The plugin is not specifically made for "bone/dry" samples.

 

[Good Bear]

Zero latency, independent of the hosts buffer size.

Very light on CPU, for a triple True Stereo convolver. There has been serious R & D to get to this level of efficiency (currently not running at its max, multi threading is switched off), also because of potential applications in other fields.

Next update (expected around Christmas) will even be more efficient.

Trials will require iLok and that will be integrated in the coming month, so not before then.

Peter, can you think of a reason that Berlin would be performing this poorly on my computer? Bad install? Incorrect Version? I put it into my template recently, and it's bringing everything to a crushing halt whenever I have a single track record enabled. The video showing a test below should give an idea of what performance is like on my 20 core CPU 128GB ram Mac Studio (Ventura 13.3.1 and Logic 10.7.7, running in native)

I didn't get a chance to record audio, but believe me when I say "stuttering" doesn't even begin to describe what's happening with the signal and any instrument running through the plugin.

 

[river angler]

Peter, can you think of a reason that Berlin would be performing this poorly on my computer? Bad install? Incorrect Version? I put it into my template recently, and it's bringing everything to a crushing halt whenever I have a single track record enabled. The video showing a test below should give an idea of what performance is like on my 20 core CPU 128GB ram Mac Studio (Ventura 13.3.1 and Logic 10.7.7, running in native)

I didn't get a chance to record audio, but believe me when I say "stuttering" doesn't even begin to describe what's happening with the signal and any instrument running through the plugin.

I see you have 17 instances active on your template and only one VST playing back which shouldn't matter an iota, particularly on your setup with 128gb RAM.

I have at least 13 instances running on stemmed busses from at least 50 tracks of "frozen" VST midi instrument tracks playing with no glitching at all...
and this is on a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro (OS Catalina) Logic 10.4.8 with 16gb RAM!

I am suspicious there's something funky going on with that version of Logic. I know this may appear to be a moot point and you must have your own reasons for running 10.7.7 but are you able to replicate the same problem with the previous Logic version?

By the way Logic 10.7.8 was released recently- maybe there are a few bug fixes that cd stop this from happening.

As a matter of course I never update Logic unless there really is a bug or new function I need. Having said that it's the ironing out of bugs that are much more important than the luxury of new features in any software update.

 

[Peter Roos]

On some setups you can run into limits of the current Berlin Studio version, this is related to the amount of time/processing that a host can give to plugins.

This is fixed in the upcoming version, I just commented on this in another thread

It makes a big difference. Most processing is moved to dedicated threads and is no longer dependent on deadlines from the brief host "callbacks".

I use other commercial convolution plugins as benchmarks and the new version does very well in these comparisons.

No more bottlenecks, CPU spikes, etc. Expect the CPU usage to drop with several factors.

Again sorry for the delay with the iLok integration, it can be hard to predict results with projects depending on third party frameworks.

The Windows and Silicon versions of the plugins were already finished, I just fixed a blocking issue with the Mac Intel code, so we're getting closer.

 

[Good Bear]

On some setups you can run into limits of the current Berlin Studio version, this is related to the amount of time/processing that a host can give to plugins.

This is fixed in the upcoming version, I just commented on this in another thread

Yeah, for my system, the plugin does run with a lot more juice than I'd expect. Anywhere below 10 plugins in a project and it works, though I'd still say that the CPU usage is a bit high. Anywhere above 10 and it starts to do this. It works better (but definitely not perfect) for me while running Logic in Rosetta, in case anyone else is experiencing this!

Peter, do you recommend I fiddle with my logic/OS version? Or do you assume it won't make much of a difference until the update?

 

[Good Bear]

I am suspicious there's something funky going on with that version of Logic. I know this may appear to be a moot point and you must have your own reasons for running 10.7.7 but are you able to replicate the same problem with the previous Logic version?

I recently updated my whole rig, and started a template - knowing that apple gets a little update crazy, I wanted to "future-proof" my template, which utilizes the environment quite a bit. Building it here helps me to be able to keep this version of Logic for a while before I will have to obligatorily update eventually! I don't care about the exact version though. Something between 10.6 and 10.7 should work fine for my purposes.

 

[Peter Roos]

Yeah, for my system, the plugin does run with a lot more juice than I'd expect. Anywhere below 10 plugins in a project and it works, though I'd still say that the CPU usage is a bit high. Anywhere above 10 and it starts to do this. It works better (but definitely not perfect) for me while running Logic in Rosetta, in case anyone else is experiencing this!

Peter, do you recommend I fiddle with my logic/OS version? Or do you assume it won't make much of a difference until the update?

The integration of the plugins with iLok is now finished (including the performance and other improvements, which were ready quite some time ago). This means I can now focus on giving the existing customers licenses in their iLok accounts, start changing the website "products", changing the downloads, adding the trials, etc.

Looks like a busy weekend for me!

Just wait for the next version, how it runs its processing cannot be compared to the current version.
It uses less CPU than 7th Heaven in the major Daws (but runs 3 true stereo convos in parallel).

 

[Good Bear]

The integration of the plugins with iLok is now finished (including the performance and other improvements, which were ready quite some time ago). This means I can now focus on giving the existing customers licenses in their iLok accounts, start changing the website "products", changing the downloads, adding the trials, etc.

Looks like a busy weekend for me!

Just wait for the next version, how it runs its processing cannot be compared to the current version.
It uses less CPU than 7th Heaven in the major Daws (but runs 3 true stereo convos in parallel).

Amazing!

And if you're looking for someone to Beta test real soon before the official release, consider me! My template will absolutely put the plugin through its paces.

Thanks for the awesome work, Peter!

 

[IFM]

I just got this. Mac Studio ultra and although the sound is amazing the cpu usage makes it unusable. I can‘t run one instance without CPU spikes.

tried in Logic and Cubase.

 

[Peter Roos]

I just got this. Mac Studio ultra and although the sound is amazing the cpu usage makes it unusable. I can‘t run one instance without CPU spikes.

tried in Logic and Cubase.

If you report this via the support email with some more info (MacOS version, number of other plugins, etc), and maybe a screenshot of the performance indicators, I can start looking into it.

You should be able to run 50+ instances, so there must be a clear explanation for this issue.

 

[IFM]

If you report this via the support email with some more info (MacOS version, number of other plugins, etc), and maybe a screenshot of the performance indicators, I can start looking into it.

You should be able to run 50+ instances, so there must be a clear explanation for this issue.

Well I was just starting to and this morning it seems to be calmed down. For reference here's my system.

NOTE: I work in 96k but before you jump to that conclusion I also was having the same results at 48k, buffer changes didn't help. Real time performance was the main issue so was unable to play any single lines. Example VIP with a Flute Legato patch, unplayable without spikes till this morning.

Mac Studio Ultra, 128gb 13.4.1 with the RME 802FS interface
Cubase 12.0.7
Logic 10.7.9

 

[Peter Roos]

I will contact you by email, I will not jump to conclusions too early, and 96 K does not impose extra processing for the reverb engine

 

[river angler]

I just got this. Mac Studio ultra and although the sound is amazing the cpu usage makes it unusable. I can‘t run one instance without CPU spikes.

tried in Logic and Cubase.

I'm sure Peter will iron out other gremlins possibly causing this on your modern system (I'm running 20+ instances quite happily on my 2012 MBPro 16gig RAM over 70+ instrument racks in Logic) ... but my chiming in here is just a gentle reminder to make sure that you boot up your DAW without any other apps running i.e. no internet browsers or any other apps open .. Whenever running a DAW session it's best practice anyway to only have that app open to yield the most proficient CPU/RAM performance for all your plugins on any system.

 

[IFM]

I'm sure Peter will iron out other gremlins possibly causing this on your modern system (I'm running 20+ instances quite happily on my 2012 MBPro 16gig RAM over 70+ instrument racks in Logic) ... but my chiming in here is just a gentle reminder to make sure that you boot up your DAW without any other apps running i.e. no internet browsers or any other apps open .. Whenever running a DAW session it's best practice anyway to only have that app open to yield the most proficient CPU/RAM performance for all your plugins on any system.

All sound advice, for sure, but also, a Mac Studio is way beyond what your MBP can do. I have been using DAWs(well just a sequencer back then) since the days of Atari STs, so I'm well-versed in their usage. Peter has reached out and we'll figure it out. Like I said it's a bit better today although still unruly.

 

[river angler]

All sound advice, for sure, but also, a Mac Studio is way beyond what your MBP can do. I have been using DAWs(well just a sequencer back then) since the days of Atari STs, so I'm well-versed in their usage. Peter has reached out and we'll figure it out. Like I said it's a bit better today although still unruly.

Glad to hear you're getting some better results now.

...I started sequencing on 4mb ST too! (showing our age now!)... The Mac Studio is a great system for sure and will be my choice if I ever get round to upgrading. For me its advantages over the MBPro are of course more RAM capacity and more external USB busses which likely run a little faster than the internal busses on the MBPro. I actually find the MBPro's external buss even at 400mb/s runs pretty efficiently when dubbing onto scratch in large open instrument sessions in Logic even without freezing. I'm also still running a MOTU Traveler MK3 which of course utilises Firewire 800. I won't wax lyrical here but I just love the simplicity of a portable system. The star of the show on that 2012 is its second internal drive buss for sure but apart from that I agree that the Mac Studio together with an audio interface upgrade is the way to go.
I just find the speed and general workflow on the 2012 has been adaptable enough to keep up with my plugins/software upgrades over the years ever since I bought mine new: in 2012! Also I actually find it reassuring to "see" a file getting saved as opposed to the instantaneous, blink and you'll miss it, super speeds that the modern chips save at!

 

[IFM]

Glad to hear you're getting some better results now.

...I started sequencing on 4mb ST too! (showing our age now!)...
I just find the speed and general workflow on the 2012 has been adaptable enough to keep up with my plugins/software upgrades over the years ever since I bought mine new: in 2012! Also I actually find it reassuring to "see" a file getting saved as opposed to the instantaneous, blink and you'll miss it, super speeds that the modern chips save at!

Oh ya I've had a couple of the 2012 MBP's and loved I could go in there and upgrade the drive and RAM. Yes, we are old now, talking about STs and I had some Atari before that whose model eludes me. Anyways, Peter is in touch and we'll dial it in.