×
What's new
By:

Samplicity announces Berlin Studio plugin

Jett Hitt said:
@Peter Emanuel Roos I stumbled onto what I think is an interesting development. @dcoscina mentioned that Berlin Studio wasn't recognized in Musescore 4, but on my system it is. I am able to load and use the plugin in Musescore 4, and it does not seem to affect the CPU adversely as it does in Logic. So far as I can tell, this is purely a Logic problem.
Click to expand...
Maybe there is an update that I haven’t downloaded that might make it visible in MuseScore? I thought it might have to do with me being on an M1 Mac but you are running silicon as well Jett…
 
Jett Hitt said:
@Peter Emanuel Roos I stumbled onto what I think is an interesting development. @dcoscina mentioned that Berlin Studio wasn't recognized in Musescore 4, but on my system it is. I am able to load and use the plugin in Musescore 4, and it does not seem to affect the CPU adversely as it does in Logic. So far as I can tell, this is purely a Logic problem.
Click to expand...
Thanks for supporting me with this.

I am also doing quite "deep" timings and comparisons, and Logic is simply not in the same league as Cubase and Reaper on Mac. The differences cannot be blamed on plugins... Logic does not seem to have, or cannot share, the horsepower that other DAWs have.

And, I need to sit on my hands when it comes to Apple software... but that is so difficult for me ;)

Most DAWs are created and maintained by music and audio focused companies. And often from Germany. OK, Steinberg is now Yamaha, but you bet the audio related stuff is really from Steinberg.

Logic was bought around 2003 by Apple from German eMagic - and many have seen it afterwards to get code for their Garageband concept.

And why, oh why, would Apple do their best for a niche?
They don't care as a company, maybe a few dedicated developers do, maybe not even.

Googling about Logic I read a LOT of complaints of it getting slower in time.

With Logic on Intel, I can still load an interesting number of Berlin Studios (thanks to Intel and their math libraries).

On Apple I am once more stuck with Apple's suboptimal vDSP math library, which is also known to give incorrect Fourrier results and for its very bad documentation (common Apple problem).

Hah! I did it - I was not able to remain sitting on my hands.

But I do like Apple hardware :thumbsup:

In the mean time, I have been able to get the plugin running 2x more efficient on Silicon. And no longer use CPU power when idle.
 
Hi Peter,

I love your plugin. It is of great value. Am I wrong or is there one thing missing: where do you put the soloist. Would be nice to have a specified place for the soloist also. Or do you have a suggestion where to put it without using other plugins?
 
Camus said:
Hi Peter,

I love your plugin. It is of great value. Am I wrong or is there one thing missing: where do you put the soloist. Would be nice to have a specified place for the soloist also. Or do you have a suggestion where to put it without using other plugins?
Click to expand...
Thanks :)

Well, this plugin gives you the studio acoustics, as "recorded" by three top notch microphone sets, as if there are performers playing at multiple locations in the studio.

You are in the control room, at the recording desk, politely telling a solo performer, via the talk-back system, to move around, and take his or her spot microphone along. You even have some delay lines to compensate for distances between the mic sets and the spot mic (i.e. the source channel).

Wouldn't there be any spot in the hall, or any mix that you can setup to catch this soloists performance in a way that pleases you? ;-)

Suppose I would have picked a few spots and had said: this preset shall be used for the solo singer. And this one for the solo cellist (at his desk? or in the center?), the grand piano..., etc.

I fear that would have come accross as making too many decisions for the user.

I have recorded the acoustics with a global approach, covering the hall in major sections. For some users maybe already too confining (why French Horns on the left?). I think choices by me for specific soloist locations would have been interpreted as even more confining.

The plugin was meant to be used in an opposite way from the onset:
provide the required localisation cues (early reflections, differences between microphone sets, clarity/directness vs fusion/space) per section in order to make each section/preset have a realistic signature sound.

And to be used creatively:
What I have called percussion forward is not much different from the woodwinds, but enough to give it that label. But there is nothing wrong with using a Percussion preset for the flutes and clarinets, if that sounds better!

Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers
 
Camus said:
Hi Peter,

I love your plugin. It is of great value. Am I wrong or is there one thing missing: where do you put the soloist. Would be nice to have a specified place for the soloist also. Or do you have a suggestion where to put it without using other plugins?
Click to expand...
I find the Front Stage Wide and Mid Stage Wide to be good for soloists. Just tweak the L/R values under Input to narrow the stereo image being fed in, then tweak the L/R values under the Direct Signal to pan.
 
Trash Panda said:
I find the Front Stage Wide and Mid Stage Wide to be good for soloists. Just tweak the L/R values under Input to narrow the stereo image being fed in, then tweak the L/R values under the Direct Signal to pan.
Click to expand...
In the update I posted today on the Samplicity Downloads page, I have changed the name from Direct Signal to "Source". The third new name. First it was Dry signal, I believe. It's a struggle :geek:

I hope to send out an email soon about this update.

No more CPU when idle gives a more relaxed feeling when you are just looking at your screen, waiting for inspiration.

The "no more calculations" for channels at 0 dB can be very handy if CPU power is tight.
 
Last edited:
I never bother to use the A/B or Surround/Ambient microphones with my libraries because I always use external reverbs to get that larger hall sound. I'm wondering how useful Berlin Studio would be for my template if I only used the tree and positional information... I think I've only heard demos using all of the mics. Are there any samples that show what the individual positions sound like with just the tree on dry and wet libraries?

Thanks!
 
coprhead6 said:
I never bother to use the A/B or Surround/Ambient microphones with my libraries because I always use external reverbs to get that larger hall sound. I'm wondering how useful Berlin Studio would be for my template if I only used the tree and positional information... I think I've only heard demos using all of the mics. Are there any samples that show what the individual positions sound like with just the tree on dry and wet libraries?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Funny you should ask because @A.Heppelmann just posted a video yesterday.

 
Peter Emanuel Roos said:
Not if you tell the compiler to generate AVX code when and where it can, for the executable code.

You can only do this if you check the CPU type at run-time and then use branching to select a part in your code that is optimized for specific operations on that processor.

Meaning that you only use such instructions in parts of your software and that you have multiple implementations for the same calculations.

This approach is used by libraries like Intel IPP and Apple vDSP, which I use. With this approach it is easy to say that you support even AVX512 - because they do that for you. But again, only for calculations that you run via them... If Massive supports AVX or a more advanced instruction set, it is done in this way.

But if you want all your code to take advantage of AVX, AVX2 or AVX512, it MUST be run on such a CPU or simply crash otherwise. This happens with Rosetta if your code contains AVX instructions.

I think there are obvious reasons why Apple does not (even) support this rather old Intel standard.
Click to expand...

Am I understanding this correctly that this product requires CPU with AVX? Some of us still don’t have AVX so if so, have to defer this product until later along with massiveX and modo drums
 
Dewdman42 said:
Am I understanding this correctly that this product requires CPU with AVX? Some of us still don’t have AVX so if so, have to defer this product until later along with massiveX and modo drums
Click to expand...
I would be interested in hearing if that is the case as well since I am still on a Mac Pro 5.1 and was considering purchasing this plugin sometime soon .
 
Also it's been about two hours since purchase and I haven't gotten an email from sealbucket yet. Just wondering if anyone else had to wait a long time.
 
Dewdman42 said:
Am I understanding this correctly that this product requires CPU with AVX? Some of us still don’t have AVX so if so, have to defer this product until later along with massiveX and modo drums
Click to expand...
AVX is not required at all. One version of the plugin had it enabled for the entire plugin, and this one could crash Rosetta, which does not support this Intel technology.

To make it even more technical: Berlin Studio does make use the fast instruction sets that your CPU supports (checked at run-time). It is not a requirement though.
 
chlady said:
I would be interested in hearing if that is the case as well since I am still on a Mac Pro 5.1 and was considering purchasing this plugin sometime soon .
Click to expand...
This is going the rumours direction...

Please read my answer above.

And all Intel Macs from 10+ support AVX by the way, this is a quite old technology.

Apple has decided to block it in its Rosetta however, so I had to pull the (only) version where I had used it for all entire plugin code. Just to make sure it will not crash in Rosetta mode.

AVX is NOT required - it IS supported when available (like AVX2, AVX512) on Intel Macs.
 
Glad to hear AVX is not required. Macpro 5,1 which are still quite commonly in use even ten years later, do not have AVX. Many of us are still using this mac for now though most of us will also jump to Apple silicon in the next few years
 
Peter Emanuel Roos said:
Thanks :)

Well, this plugin gives you the studio acoustics, as "recorded" by three top notch microphone sets, as if there are performers playing at multiple locations in the studio.

You are in the control room, at the recording desk, politely telling a solo performer, via the talk-back system, to move around, and take his or her spot microphone along. You even have some delay lines to compensate for distances between the mic sets and the spot mic (i.e. the source channel).

Wouldn't there be any spot in the hall, or any mix that you can setup to catch this soloists performance in a way that pleases you? ;)

Suppose I would have picked a few spots and had said: this preset shall be used for the solo singer. And this one for the solo cellist (at his desk? or in the center?), the grand piano..., etc.

I fear that would have come accross as making too many decisions for the user.

I have recorded the acoustics with a global approach, covering the hall in major sections. For some users maybe already too confining (why French Horns on the left?). I think choices by me for specific soloist locations would have been interpreted as even more confining.

The plugin was meant to be used in an opposite way from the onset:
provide the required localisation cues (early reflections, differences between microphone sets, clarity/directness vs fusion/space) per section in order to make each section/preset have a realistic signature sound.

And to be used creatively:
What I have called percussion forward is not much different from the woodwinds, but enough to give it that label. But there is nothing wrong with using a Percussion preset for the flutes and clarinets, if that sounds better!

Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers
Click to expand...
Thank you for your explanation. True! I was thinking of just a simple soloist in the middle in front of the orchestra. For shure one can create that with the tools you gave us inside this plugin. ;-)
 
Is this a great tool for placing instruments into a room like Virtual Sound Stage 2 ?

There was a question about how Berlin Studio compares to Virtual Sound Stage 2 (VSS2) in this thread, but there was no satisfiying answer, so I try to ask this question again:

I don't care so much about the "Teldex Sound", but I care a lot about tools who help me focusing on composing and less about mixing. Since many years, I use VSS2 and I like it. It helped me a lot. As far as I understand VSS, I need to add a Reverb tail (however, thats how I did al the time, like VSS2 as an insert and Valhalla Room as a send to add a tail). As far as I understand Berlin Studio, it places instruments in a Room and has all the reverb options I need. Long story short: Is Berlin Studio like VSS2 on steriods?

Another question:
My music is a mix of orchestral Instrumenst and electronic music, and in VSS2 I can easily place as many instrtuments where ever I want. For example, Violins 1 to the left and next to it a synth pad and next to it a synth plug. In Berlin Studio it seams there is a fixed number of spots. So If I place Violin 1 into the Violin 1 Slot and another insert of Berlin Studio on, lets say, a synth pad, can I put this also in the violin 1 slot? Are there any troubles? Hope you understand my question.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom