12 Years Old. Twelve. There is hope for humanity.
- Thread starter robgb
- Start date
Kony
Bad ape
I did go too far and have now deleted
This is one of those times I'm reeeeeallly glad I no longer run a forum, because as convenient as making Jimmy's posts go POOF would be, such an action could also toe the line of censorship. When I read his statements about Alma Deutcher, I find it nearly impossible to believe any decent human being could say such condescending things and be serious about them, but if Jimmy is indeed expressing his honest opinions, I'm not sure that hand-selecting his opinions (and resulting commentary from other members) for deletion is automatically the right move.
Unless Jimmy has a history of stirring the pot and generating reports, moving the whole thread might be more appropriate. It's a tough call. I'm just so glad it's not mine.
Well, I admit I'm thinking more about the people imprinted with Jimmy's insults, including her parents. Not about Jimmy's freedom from censorship. And how the internet is "forever." In a case like this, I would not have a problem with removing the one post as this is a forum of professional musicians, some who are well-known. Censorship is not always a bad thing when done surgically. There is opinion, and then there is something else. One would think the person in question would get a clue and correct his blunder... I will leave this to Mike and the mods.
Good night.
Jimmy Hellfire
Senior Member
No, do not call the police, do not call the president, protective bunkers are not necessary - just do nothing! Ignore the "troll" and go on about your day. I'm aware you don't realize this, but you made this thread a shit show, not me. Whether you like my humor or not is an almost unrelated matter, but if you pay attention, you'll see that that's the extent of my contribution. What made this thread a "drama" are the compulsive overreactions (in certain cases also a disingenuous joy of quarelling) and the sheer personal indignation that someone dared to say something you really, really didn't like.
I'm not saying this to piss you off or "troll" you, but to make you realize that it's comical and ridiculous to make it such a topic. Apparently a bit of sarcasm or a joke about snobby cloud-dwellers makes is enough for the pitchforks to be drawn from the barn. That's a very selective sense of regulation. I'm sure that if I made some mean-sounding joke about something the fine people on this board tend to really look down upon (like, I don't know - saying something mean about retarded media producers who NEVER have budget for audio), this thread would have never taken the turn it has now.
It's a bit ridiculous, you follow me? Oh my God, what shall we do? Well nothing! Stop crying and everything will be OK. It's not a "tough call". It's not a state affair. When you put things into perspective - thinking about "what should be done" and what even caused the ruckus, it's absolutely silly. It's all the same to me, but Im telling you because (other than devouring rich kids on occasion) I'm a really nice guy.
You guys try being a bit more honest and open and a bit less hypocritical. You're only pissed because I made the "wrong" joke. You goaded yourself and blew it up. There's no "scandal", there's no "drama". The only drama is you absolutely overreacting over a trifle until it IS a drama.
Well, I'm sure you're gonna figure it all out ...
I'm not saying this to piss you off or "troll" you, but to make you realize that it's comical and ridiculous to make it such a topic. Apparently a bit of sarcasm or a joke about snobby cloud-dwellers makes is enough for the pitchforks to be drawn from the barn. That's a very selective sense of regulation. I'm sure that if I made some mean-sounding joke about something the fine people on this board tend to really look down upon (like, I don't know - saying something mean about retarded media producers who NEVER have budget for audio), this thread would have never taken the turn it has now.
It's a bit ridiculous, you follow me? Oh my God, what shall we do? Well nothing! Stop crying and everything will be OK. It's not a "tough call". It's not a state affair. When you put things into perspective - thinking about "what should be done" and what even caused the ruckus, it's absolutely silly. It's all the same to me, but Im telling you because (other than devouring rich kids on occasion) I'm a really nice guy.
You guys try being a bit more honest and open and a bit less hypocritical. You're only pissed because I made the "wrong" joke. You goaded yourself and blew it up. There's no "scandal", there's no "drama". The only drama is you absolutely overreacting over a trifle until it IS a drama.
Well, I'm sure you're gonna figure it all out ...
No, do not call the police, do not call the president, protective bunkers are not necessary - just do nothing! Ignore the "troll" and go on about your day. I'm aware you don't realize this, but you made this thread a shit show, not me. Whether you like my humor or not is an almost unrelated matter, but if you pay attention, you'll see that that's the extent of my contribution. What made this thread a "drama" are the compulsive overreactions (in certain cases also a disingenuous joy of quarelling) and the sheer personal indignation that someone dared to say something you really, really didn't like.
I'm not saying this to piss you off or "troll" you, but to make you realize that it's comical and ridiculous to make it such a topic. Apparently a bit of sarcasm or a joke about snobby cloud-dwellers makes is enough for the pitchforks to be drawn from the barn. That's a very selective sense of regulation. I'm sure that if I made some mean-sounding joke about something the fine people on this board tend to really look down upon (like, I don't know - saying something mean about retarded media producers who NEVER have budget for audio), this thread would have never taken the turn it has now.
It's a bit ridiculous, you follow me? Oh my God, what shall we do? Well nothing! Stop crying and everything will be OK. It's not a "tough call". It's not a state affair. When you put things into perspective - thinking about "what should be done" and what even caused the ruckus, it's absolutely silly. It's all the same to me, but Im telling you because (other than devouring rich kids on occasion) I'm a really nice guy.
You guys try being a bit more honest and open and a bit less hypocritical. You're only pissed because I made the "wrong" joke. You goaded yourself and blew it up. There's no "scandal", there's no "drama". The only drama is you absolutely overreacting over a trifle until it IS a drama.
Well, I'm sure you're gonna figure it all out ...
Hmm... nope, you really are the one who hasn't figured out what your idle words have caused. You must need the maze you create to hide away, so I'm not going to touch this.
Peace.
AlexanderSchiborr
Senior Member
Oh please guys..don´t smash your heads..you know..it is still music. that young girl is doing music and she is definitely not a typical 12 year old neither how she speaks (in particular her facial expression while talking) nor what she does. I think we dont´need to discuss that matter, do we? Do I feel uncofortable because of that..no. I see things in her which are very very different in comparison to "normal" kids playing with toycars and playstation. On the one hand I am impressed by her craft on the other hand I hope she is not skipping her youth. Because that is the only thing which a lot of those people suffer but then later a lot. It depends a lot also on the parents.
I think Hellfire maybe wanted to point just that out? But got a bit hellfirish in the way how he sais it? :D
I think Hellfire maybe wanted to point just that out? But got a bit hellfirish in the way how he sais it? :D
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FinGael
I Re Member
No, do not call the police, do not call the president, protective bunkers are not necessary - just do nothing! Ignore the "troll" and go on about your day. I'm aware you don't realize this, but you made this thread a shit show, not me. Whether you like my humor or not is an almost unrelated matter, but if you pay attention, you'll see that that's the extent of my contribution. What made this thread a "drama" are the compulsive overreactions (in certain cases also a disingenuous joy of quarelling) and the sheer personal indignation that someone dared to say something you really, really didn't like.
I'm not saying this to piss you off or "troll" you, but to make you realize that it's comical and ridiculous to make it such a topic. Apparently a bit of sarcasm or a joke about snobby cloud-dwellers makes is enough for the pitchforks to be drawn from the barn. That's a very selective sense of regulation. I'm sure that if I made some mean-sounding joke about something the fine people on this board tend to really look down upon (like, I don't know - saying something mean about retarded media producers who NEVER have budget for audio), this thread would have never taken the turn it has now.
It's a bit ridiculous, you follow me? Oh my God, what shall we do? Well nothing! Stop crying and everything will be OK. It's not a "tough call". It's not a state affair. When you put things into perspective - thinking about "what should be done" and what even caused the ruckus, it's absolutely silly. It's all the same to me, but Im telling you because (other than devouring rich kids on occasion) I'm a really nice guy.
You guys try being a bit more honest and open and a bit less hypocritical. You're only pissed because I made the "wrong" joke. You goaded yourself and blew it up. There's no "scandal", there's no "drama". The only drama is you absolutely overreacting over a trifle until it IS a drama.
Well, I'm sure you're gonna figure it all out ...
Good and bad jokes and opinions aside... Have you considered what you are gaining with your posts (about this subject)?
My guess is that with posts like yours in this thread, some more acclaimed and skilled people will leave the forum. Can't blame them.
In my opinion, one of the things that has made this this forum great, and special, is the fact that there has been people from beginners to top aces, with love, passion and enthusiasm for the subject that connects us all here. That can produce extraordinary things, but only in a nourishing environment; it has to give enough positive and valuable to everyone attending to keep things rolling.
If the forum becomes a place of venting and swashbuckling, it can benefit some, but probably not the whole community.
i hope that people would reflect more on these matters before they post.
I have a dream that all the good people that have left, would one day return with all their good mates. It may never happen, but regardless of that we can make this a good place to be.
Chr!s
Active Member
There is literally no sensible reason whatsoever to be hating on this, especially since the hating is originating from unfounded assumptions that are completely tangential to the subject at hand.
As for the "skipping youth" thing, yeah — no. The girl can be really good at music and not have to sacrifice her social life, which none of us know anything about and isn't our business anyway.
BRB: Calling my sister and telling her that all of those years she spent from age 6 - 18 as a competitive dancer, and of her own will, would've been better spent on nothing but tailgate parties and video games.
As for the "skipping youth" thing, yeah — no. The girl can be really good at music and not have to sacrifice her social life, which none of us know anything about and isn't our business anyway.
BRB: Calling my sister and telling her that all of those years she spent from age 6 - 18 as a competitive dancer, and of her own will, would've been better spent on nothing but tailgate parties and video games.
Polkasound
Senior Member
If your comments about Alma Deutscher were all a joke, then your delivery was as tactless as a kid calling in a bomb threat to his school as a joke. Since you never let on that you were joking, OF COURSE PEOPLE TOOK YOU SERIOUSLY. Why wouldn't they?
Me too. Although we now know that Jimmy was joking, the condescending-toned comments are still completely unwarranted. All's fair on the internet, but I think VI-C can and should do one better by showing this young composer some respect by striking the comments from public view. Whatever Mike decides to do about this, he's got my support.
Chr!s
Active Member
Didn't he clarify in his second post that it was actually not totally a joke?
"I don't think more of this kind of exalted folks is what humanity needs, or should hope for (to circle back to the thread title).
Frankly, I also generally laugh at any notion of an artists' "hard work".
?
"I don't think more of this kind of exalted folks is what humanity needs, or should hope for (to circle back to the thread title).
Frankly, I also generally laugh at any notion of an artists' "hard work".
?
Jimmy Hellfire
Senior Member
The original post obviously was a joke.
The one you qouted isn't. I said I don't think more of that is what the world needs - directly referencing the thread title. Because all of this wunderkind nonsense is only possible in a complete isolation from worldly realities and only for extraordinarily wealthy and aloof people who have the liberty to design their own fantasy life. I guess you can argue semantics now. That's always what this type of folks do.
I found it distasteful to read. That's not the reality of our world, and more of this kind of thing most certanly won't solve the very real problems the global society has, especially when it comes to youth perspective, economy, self-determination and education. There's so many kids out there that would greatly benefit from any kind of basic education and they're not able to get it.
That's just an opinion. Not even an "insulting" one. If you got a problem with that, you're the one who needs to check himself. Which comes back down to what I previously noted - quite a bit of hypocrisy here.
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FinGael
I Re Member
I respectfully disagree.
I think the music she makes is something that the world needs - especially in this time of great global challenges.
Some have stated that her harmonic language is not so developed, but to me her music is beautiful, and to me that is valuable.
Vangelis stated in one interview, that in his opinion there is not enough beauty in today's world. I agree with him.
To me people of today, especially westerners, seem emotionally wounded and lost with/in themselves, and much of what we do is to pass this inner pain and turmoil forward in what we do. You only have to look at how we treat the environment... At the same time beauty is often downplayed. One could of course argue whole day what beauty is. I don't want to put it in box more than thinking that it might be something that can heal, harmonize and unify one's being and makes one feel good, peace and content.
Wasting the youth can be a valid issue, but at the same time I want to question the model of what youth should be. Sometimes it seems that the models we have are made to make us good consumers instead of human beings.
Chr!s
Active Member
I think I now understand what you are saying in that artistic education and pursuits are not inherently more virtuous than others. I agree that perhaps this study should not necessarily be championed above all the others as a shining example of what we should, in general, aspire to be or expect our children to do.
But let's get down to brass tacks:
This girl is in music whether we like it or not, and it seems to me that she is writing music of a higher standard than what even most adults who find "youtube fame" do.
Do you believe, as someone who has criticized the manufactured music of Hollywood, that higher standards are needed, both in the arts and just in general?
scottbuckley
Active Member
Just watched this video. She's a character, that's for sure. But... her reasoning behind her stylistic choices reminds me of myself, and perhaps a few of you may relate. I used to fall asleep as a kid listening to John Williams scores, and all I ever wanted to do was write music like John Williams. I envy her, for the simple fact that she has the musical skill and understanding of the language at her age to actually achieve those goals. Good for her, I suppose
.
Jimmy Hellfire
Senior Member
Most definitely. It would make the world a whole different place. I also believe that it is an entirely reachable goal. What frustrates me that higher standards, better education and especially more individual, talent- and interest-based education are only available to those who are already well off.
Chr!s
Active Member
Well, consider that many of the people writing music in places like Hollywood today are also already well off and got there through nepotism. Many of them are also self-taught.
So, should we not then take this girl, who is at a young age achieving a higher standard herself, as a symbol of hope that the younger generations will work to bring about the age of improvement you seek?
mikeh-375
old school
It's fair to say (and understandable) that her work is derivative at present and many many students in good colleges and beyond can write pastiche just as well and even better. What is exciting for me is wondering if she will get beyond the commercialism and start searching within for a more unique voice. I believe a lot of us have that voice, but our circumstances, personality and social/economic pressures dictate the outcome and/or suppression of that voice far too often. Is she going to be cocooned in a mad whirl of money and fame - trapped and stifled - or could she break free and be something truly wonderful and unique? I hope so, but perhaps she will be happy writing in a style that requires no thought from the listener who can then concentrate on the marvel of her. She then becomes a commercially driven novelty. That'd be a shame because the likes of her are very infrequent. I wish her well.
Apologies if someone has said similar, but I haven't read through the thread fully yet....
Apologies if someone has said similar, but I haven't read through the thread fully yet....
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Jimmy Hellfire
Senior Member
I don't really perceive it that way. I mean it's all great, good for Alma, but she's the model child of some exalted and privileged academia folks and they're doing whatever they're doing. I guess that's now "insulting" again. Anyhow, I don't see how that's a symbol of hope for younger generations - if anything, on the contrary. That's just how I see it.
mikeh-375
old school
Jimmy, I came from a working class background and had no help other than supportive parents. My own determination got me to the Royal Academy in London. Whilst I agree that being nurtured responsibly is a definite advantage for a youngster, it doesn't always work out and is not exclusive to a wealthy background.. I had whatever you want to call it within me and had no choice in my chosen profession.
