12 Years Old. Twelve. There is hope for humanity.

Discussion in 'Composition, Orchestration & Technique' started by robgb, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Jimmy Hellfire

    Jimmy Hellfire Senior Member

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    Yes, of course I worded this wrongly, saying that it was only possible if you're already in a privileged position. But you get the general idea. I'm sure you've been seeing certain types around you along the way and could tell the difference.
     
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  2. reutunes

    reutunes Senior Member

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    Drama Zone anyone?
     
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  3. mikeh-375

    mikeh-375 old school

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    Absolutely Jimmy. Some of my more affluent peers at the Academy went completely off the rails, it being their first time away from a safe environment. Mix in hyper sensitivity, cheap discounted booze (aaahhhh, sigh) and first time love/sex (aaaaaaahhhhhh etc.) and seriously, it was the downfall of an inordinate amount of students.
    For someone like the subject of this thread, she will have to leave the nest at some stage so I hope the adulation she is getting at present doesn't skew her opinion of herself. When (if?) she gets into an environment where every other student can play and write as well as her she will have to step up more so.
     
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  4. Jimmy Hellfire

    Jimmy Hellfire Senior Member

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    That's a good point. Hopefully she'll be able to navigate through that and remeber to stick to what really matters - her abilities, the work and dilligence and the joy of music. A lot of times overly pandered young people can lose sight of that.
     
  5. MartinH.

    MartinH. Senior Member

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    I just hope she's not only blessed with unusual talent, but also with an unusual mental resilience and capacity to find happiness in life, because afaik not too many of the child celebrity stories end well. Too much success too early in life leaves too little room to grow. I hope she can brave the storms that undoubtably she'll have to face at some point, and wish her the best. Her achievements are very impressive but I'm not envious at all.

    Do students get special discounts on booze in your country? If so, that seems kinda counter-productive. x]
     
  6. OP
    OP
    robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    She's already a better composer than 95% of the people on this forum. But every thread needs a little condescending snobbery to make it complete.
     
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  7. OP
    OP
    robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    The "discussion" maybe. But it would be nice to leave the wonderful video of her concerto behind.
     
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  8. mikeh-375

    mikeh-375 old school

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    Do students get special discounts on booze in your country? If so, that seems kinda counter-productive. x][/QUOTE]

    We did when I was there, not sure about these days. The bar introduced some special strength lager once as a trial, it was carnage with students and some professors lolling about all over the place. Counter-productive?.....dunno, can't remember.
     
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  9. Desire Inspires

    Desire Inspires To the stars through desire....

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    Fortunately I am not in that 95% group.
     
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  10. TimCox

    TimCox Active Member

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    I think the piece is beautiful and incredibly well-written but there's no harm in pointing out that it is very noticeably in the Classical period. The fact is that if she wasn't 12 she'd be raked over the coals by critics as derivative. Whether justifiable or not, I'm not qualified to say. Although I do agree there is a difference between condescending and critical!
     
  11. OP
    OP
    robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    Almost all music is derivative. I'm not sure that even qualifies as criticism.
     
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  12. TimCox

    TimCox Active Member

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    I think it's valid criticism, I've seen plenty of new classical music get chastised because it's not modern or forward thinking enough. I might not wholly agree but it's still valid (John Williams gets similar criticism for relying on romantic era conventions, just to add some perspective to what I'm saying). My main point was that the age of the composer is helping here, please don't misunderstand that. If she keeps this up, she'll be a major MAJOR artist.
     
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  13. Kony

    Kony Senior Member

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    Poor frustrated scientist
     
  14. cola2410

    cola2410 Member

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    Watched the first vid - except her age nothing really that impressive, the school I was trained at had kids who could do almost the same at 16, I mean composing something similar and derivative from classics. These ivory-tower-children may amaze at first but what really important is how they progress when they face competition from the real world. I truly respect people being able to invent and create something new despite their age because it's the only thing needed to enrich humanity. Repetition doesn't make any sense except pleasing parents and alike.
    Meanwhile look at this kid:
     
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  15. SergeD

    SergeD Active Member

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  16. Kony

    Kony Senior Member

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    That's a laughable comment since Alma Deutscher wrote her pieces when she was 8 - including an opera - and that's precisely the point, that she is doing this from a very young age and that her ability seems to be innate. Alma is also a multi-instrumentalist, unlike Joey Alexander....

    To be clear, the video you posted of Joey is impressive, but if you could make a comparison with another child of a similar age composing and performing classical music, I'm all ears.

    And what's your point about being derivative? All music is derivative, and every composer mines their predecessors.

    There is no need to make derogatory comments like the one above about people you know nothing about.
     
  17. cola2410

    cola2410 Member

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    Well, there is no point for me at all because I'm talking about music not age and innate abilities is no wonder these days. Stephen Fry:"A new Mozart?" No, thank you, we already have one but lets wait for her to be the "new". Joey is another example but no direct comparison as he does something different - he improvises fluently over jazz standards being very young. I'm not a fan of both because they don't really invent anything new so I'll wait for both to develop their abilities to some level that makes them remembered.
    But that's my thing. Would I buy a ticket to Alma or Joey concert? No, because there are better operas and better jazz musicians.

    Studied at home using non-conventional methodologies, parents limit performances and select opportunities, financially supported from outside the family.
     
  18. Kony

    Kony Senior Member

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    Then why did you stop by? And why post here about it if it's only going to be negative? I get negativity in terms of debate etc, but most were here to give credit where credit's due.
    You obviously seem to know a bit about her, including Fry's quote (which coincidentally she is at pains herself to say she doesn't want to be considered as a "Mozart") which is interesting for someone who indicates they don't rate her highly. I don't take that to mean "ivory tower" btw but that's another debate.

    Many kids are home-schooled these days (why you feel it pertinent to make a "non-conventional" assignation is subjective and irrelevant). There are 48,000 children currently being home-schooled in the UK which increased by 40% over the last year (and says more about the education system in the UK) - and this was Alma's choice as she showed the ability from a very young age to make a decision as to what she wanted out of her education.

    Her parents have said they limit her performances to protect her and ensure she has a proper childhood as opposed to being a show-pony (and possibly avoid more comparisons to Mozart for obvious reasons as the latter was used by his father - there are many examples of talented kids being used by their parents...).

    Not sure where you're getting the financial support from outside the family - they were obviously already doing okay financially and how would you know anything about their financial status?
     
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  19. cola2410

    cola2410 Member

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    Actually it goes back to the OP about hope for humanity. I think the hope for humanity is in continuous invention and contribution in collaboration with others based on the foundation of the past. I'm not being negative at all, please don't get me wrong, I just oppose the OP statement.

    The family itself yes but the performances were supported by entrepreneurs

    I mean that Italian teaching technique and online lessons from a Swiss professor.

    Honestly I like composers more than performers and she's both but more a composer and I believe she can do something for us, lets just wait.
     
  20. Kids have got skills!

    Look at it this way, If the kids are forced into playing music through fear or by being brain-washed by the parents. It'll probably backfire and when they become adults they'll go off the rails, becoming alienated and socially dysfunctional. Especially if they're playing music against their will.

    If they're not forced into it and the parents support them because the child chooses to make music, then the child will probably go on to do awesome things or get bored and do something else entirely.

    If the child is loves playing music but has no support system or opportunity to develop, they'll probably grow up never feeling like they reached their potential and ultimately do something else.

    I don't really think it matters if their parents are rich or not. Because un-wealthy parents can force their child into music, just to make money. Just like wealthy parents can force their child into music to boost their own status and give them bragging rights.

    I know a guy who was drumming "prodigy" and heavily influenced by his parents. They already had 3 children who all got really high paying jobs by the time they were 30. A heart surgeon, a consultant for huge companies, a rocket scientist and then there's the youngest (the drummer). He was on TV loads, had lots of famous people telling him how awesome he was, won some awards and it all looked like his future was bright. By the time he was 23 his career never took off.

    All that time spent romanticising about stardom and being spoon fed bollocks, eventually caused him to have a major break down. He's completely alienated and really struggles to socialise. Everyone who talks to him finds him odd. But he's a really good person. His parents still treat him like the failure of the litter and pay for everything out of guilt. Moral of the story, never try live your dreams through your children. It's their life, not yours.
     
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