Nicola74
Active Member
If I remember well only Orch. Strings full have 2nd vlns, but with much less articulations. No other VSL strings libraries have 2nd vlns, maybe Appassionata, but I am not sure...
VSL Orchestral Strings?
- Thread starter Count_Fuzzball
- Start date
DoctorGuitar007
New Member
True. Another reason that Mir-X was such a big deal for me was that it gave me 2nd violins. But LASS also gave me divisi, first chairs and a sound that was closer to what was in my head out of the box.You are right, no 2nd vlns...but with Mir you can have them on the right with no phase issues or trasposition trick.
I have to say that I find the strings more balance in this way
Nicola74
Active Member
Then LASS is perfect for you
novaburst
Senior Member
For example purchasing the special edition (the lighter version of the full or standard versions) when deciding to upgrade to the standard or full version only at VSL the price is calculated differently when the system sees you have already purchased the SE equivalent and gives you a discount based upon what you have purchased on the SE.
Its not a personal or private operation its the way VSL have set up system so its an automatic discount system based on what you have on the SE but it must be the same type of purchase so SE Orchestral Strings 1+2= a discounted standard or full version.
Hope this helps,
Dewdman42
Senior Member
I have read, however, that SE does not upgrade cleanly to the the bigger stuff...There is something about the upgrade path there that is not very good. There is no information that I can find whatsoever to let me know what it will end up costing me in the long run if I were to first buy SE and then later decide I want Cube.
Casiquire
Senior Member
I agree things are a little hard to find and kind of overwhelming. If you put items in your cart, you'll see your savings on other products. Helpful tip!
The Single Instrument upgrades are very good in my experience.
C-Wave
Senior Member
SE libraries do not upgrade to standard libraries as far as I know, but standard libraries upgrade to full libraries, because full lib. are simply extra articulations of the same libraries.
Last edited:
novaburst
Senior Member
Go for the cube, I think I read some one advicing to purchase some viewing time, that's a good idea too.
Dietz
Space Explorer
Just to avoid confusion:
-> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Instruments/Special_Editions#!Upgrade_Paths
HTH,
/Dietz
-> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Instruments/Special_Editions#!Upgrade_Paths
HTH,
/Dietz
novaburst
Senior Member
I think upgrade is the wrong word to use, it depends what existing items you have, so when you purchase a new item you just get a discount, but I would not say upgrade.
Anyway its getting confusing so lets stop
novaburst
Senior Member
This perhaps explains
Dewdman42
Senior Member
Going through the process of using the basket, from what I can see if I buy SE complete bundle now...then later decide I want Cube standard, the price is cut a few hundred bucks off the list price. Actually its cut by $462 as the discount, but VSL also charges a higher price when converted to dollars then if I buy the same stuff from Sweetwater...so it would actually only save $300 off the list price of Cube.
So the end result of starting with SE and later moving to Cube is considerably more expensive then going to Cube directly now, if that's where I think I want to end up eventually.
I'm still not really understanding the benefit of even considering SE at all. The SE complete bundle (through sweetwater) is $1600 and Cube is $2100. What does SE complete bundle have (at lower quality), the Cube doesn't have?
So the end result of starting with SE and later moving to Cube is considerably more expensive then going to Cube directly now, if that's where I think I want to end up eventually.
I'm still not really understanding the benefit of even considering SE at all. The SE complete bundle (through sweetwater) is $1600 and Cube is $2100. What does SE complete bundle have (at lower quality), the Cube doesn't have?
Dewdman42
Senior Member
In my mind, the SE product seems like VSL lite. I don't see the point of even buying VSL SE at all, but I would like to hear more. One benefit is that its only 111gb fully installed with all SE volumes. that makes it small enough to use on a laptop if that is interesting to you.
Does the SE complete bundle have more articulations and instruments then Cube standard, albeit at a lower level of quality in some way?
Does the SE complete bundle have more articulations and instruments then Cube standard, albeit at a lower level of quality in some way?
DoctorGuitar007
New Member
A couple (well, four) possible reasons for starting with SE rather than going straight for the Cube. YMMV obviously:
1. Cost: I couldn't afford the Cube when I bought VSL all those years ago. I bought SE, and when I had the extra cash upgraded as and when. Probably more expensive in the long run, but ...
2. Needs:The first instruments I upgraded were flutes, oboes and horns, because they tend to be the featured instruments in the kind of music I write, so I wanted the extra articulations / velocity layers. However, I still to this day use the SE versions of the bassoons, contras, tubas and some others because in the music I write those instruments tend to function in a supporting way. I only need legato / sus and staccato articulations, and the extra velocity layers, etc. wouldn't be noticeable. So again it's cost, but also the SE instruments take up less memory and keep the size of my template under control. If I decide to write a tuba concerto I can always upgrade that instrument later.
3. Pick and Mix. I love VSL, but when deciding what libraries I wanted to use I preferred LASS for strings, EW Symphonic Choirs for voices plus some other non-VSL libraries I already owned and liked. Buying the Cube would have meant paying for VSL instruments I would never use.
4. Test Driving. After working with SE for a few months I found I was struggling to get the brass sounds I wanted for a particular project. VSL is very powerful and flexible and probably, if I'd upgraded to the full versions of the instruments and put the work in it could have delivered the sound I was after. However, EW Hollywood Brass gave me that sound out of the box (and was on sale so was cheaper than VSL). SE let me audition VSL instruments and decide what IMO their strengths and weaknesses are, and how they compare with other libaries. (And I have to say, regarding brass, if I was writing a more classically inspired / symphonic piece I'd probably go back to VSL. It's just for my current project I'm after the Hollywood sound which I found easier to get from Hollywood Brass. But SE let me learn when to use VSL, and when not.)
So, for me, if you can afford the Cube, and afford possibly to be paying for stuff you might not ever need (hundreds of bass clarinet articulations when you don't normally score for bass clarinet, preferring bassoons) or because you, for whatever reason use other libraries as well, go for it. If not, consider starting with SE and building your template oragnically over time.
1. Cost: I couldn't afford the Cube when I bought VSL all those years ago. I bought SE, and when I had the extra cash upgraded as and when. Probably more expensive in the long run, but ...
2. Needs:The first instruments I upgraded were flutes, oboes and horns, because they tend to be the featured instruments in the kind of music I write, so I wanted the extra articulations / velocity layers. However, I still to this day use the SE versions of the bassoons, contras, tubas and some others because in the music I write those instruments tend to function in a supporting way. I only need legato / sus and staccato articulations, and the extra velocity layers, etc. wouldn't be noticeable. So again it's cost, but also the SE instruments take up less memory and keep the size of my template under control. If I decide to write a tuba concerto I can always upgrade that instrument later.
3. Pick and Mix. I love VSL, but when deciding what libraries I wanted to use I preferred LASS for strings, EW Symphonic Choirs for voices plus some other non-VSL libraries I already owned and liked. Buying the Cube would have meant paying for VSL instruments I would never use.
4. Test Driving. After working with SE for a few months I found I was struggling to get the brass sounds I wanted for a particular project. VSL is very powerful and flexible and probably, if I'd upgraded to the full versions of the instruments and put the work in it could have delivered the sound I was after. However, EW Hollywood Brass gave me that sound out of the box (and was on sale so was cheaper than VSL). SE let me audition VSL instruments and decide what IMO their strengths and weaknesses are, and how they compare with other libaries. (And I have to say, regarding brass, if I was writing a more classically inspired / symphonic piece I'd probably go back to VSL. It's just for my current project I'm after the Hollywood sound which I found easier to get from Hollywood Brass. But SE let me learn when to use VSL, and when not.)
So, for me, if you can afford the Cube, and afford possibly to be paying for stuff you might not ever need (hundreds of bass clarinet articulations when you don't normally score for bass clarinet, preferring bassoons) or because you, for whatever reason use other libraries as well, go for it. If not, consider starting with SE and building your template oragnically over time.
Casiquire
Senior Member
Of course the price is better the bigger the bundle you get all at the same time! No, I don't like that either, but I certainly felt that was to be expected. I think it's worth noting that getting the Full version of the Cube seems to give me a larger discount than my past spending with VSL actually warrants. So even here, the bigger bundle you upgrade to the more you're rewarded.
Personally I think I'll keep getting single instruments, which upgrade well and give you a lot of articulations, and full packages. I'm not sure I'll ever need the Cube.
Personally I think I'll keep getting single instruments, which upgrade well and give you a lot of articulations, and full packages. I'm not sure I'll ever need the Cube.
Burningbusch
New Member
From what I can tell, there's no difference between the SE and Standard versions of the same articulations. I own some SE as well as downloads (which are the standard version). When I look at equivalent sizes in VI Pro, they are identical. Articulations that can be found in SE, e.g. stacc, sustain, sfz, legato are identical in wave count and layers to the standard/download version, and they sound identical. Maybe there's a difference in bit size, don't know. As far as upgrades from SE to Standard, you do get some accommodation for your SE purchase. For example, Trumpet C Standard costs €50 with a €6 credit for SE. Considering Trumpet C is one of many instruments in SE 1, it's not unreasonable. It makes more sense though to upgrade via the SE plus where you get most of the Standard articulations and some Extended. I've compared the sizes of equivalent articulations between SE+ and my Standard/downloads and again, see zero difference in the wave count and layers.
It's difficult to compare the actual file size of Standard Cube vs. the same instruments via SE because the install size of Cube contains the complete, extended library.
It's difficult to compare the actual file size of Standard Cube vs. the same instruments via SE because the install size of Cube contains the complete, extended library.
cadenzajon
Active Member
I thought SE instruments were minus one dynamic layer compared to the full lib as well, but perhaps the instruments are more similar than I thought if all the sizes match up in VI Pro.
Burningbusch
New Member
I find it inconsistent, or maybe I'm simply confused. As I have both SE and downloaded versions of Woodwind II installed I can compare sizes in VI Pro. For example, Flute 1 stac shows a wave count of 120, three vel layers, two alternations and no release samples for both the SE and download. This does not translate to a chromatic sampling of the instrument. 41 notes of the flute are playable, which should equal a wave count of 246 (which is roughly twice what I'm seeing). It's the same throughout Woodwinds II download v. SE.
I also own full/extended Solo Violins which came boxed with CD. Now if I compare Violin stac between this version and SE, it's much larger 800 wave count vs. 156. They appear to be chromatically sampled. I also own Appassionata Strings Std/Ext and agree with the above comment that they appear to be whole-tone sampled and are much closer to the SE version for comparable articulations. But with stac, for example, you get tight and loose A/B switched with the Std.
If I look at my pricing for the Cube, it shows downloaded version of Woodwinds II as registered and $0 cost for Woodwind II in the Cube. Which means to me whatever I have should be exactly the same as the Cube Std.
I think what it may come down to is that there's no hard and fast rule about SE versions being inferior to Std for comparable articulations and there's no guarantee every Std version instrument is more deeply sampled.
I also own full/extended Solo Violins which came boxed with CD. Now if I compare Violin stac between this version and SE, it's much larger 800 wave count vs. 156. They appear to be chromatically sampled. I also own Appassionata Strings Std/Ext and agree with the above comment that they appear to be whole-tone sampled and are much closer to the SE version for comparable articulations. But with stac, for example, you get tight and loose A/B switched with the Std.
If I look at my pricing for the Cube, it shows downloaded version of Woodwinds II as registered and $0 cost for Woodwind II in the Cube. Which means to me whatever I have should be exactly the same as the Cube Std.
I think what it may come down to is that there's no hard and fast rule about SE versions being inferior to Std for comparable articulations and there's no guarantee every Std version instrument is more deeply sampled.
