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VSL Mystery release??? (UPDATE: Synchron Duality Strings)

I did end up getting this with the last of my vouchers for this year. :grin:

I am getting some strange behavior in Cubase when using the VSL-provided expression maps for Duality. This is the first time I'm trying to use one of the VSL ones instead of my usual ArtConductor or make-it-myself variety. Here's the issue:

If I click on a midi part that uses the VSL expression map for Duality, I have to wait >1second for the track to highlight. Basically clicking on the track freezes Cubase for over a second where I can't do anything. I *think* this is because Cubase is taking over a second to load the expression map??? Does this make any sense to anyone, because it feels totally crazy to me. If I use my ArtConductor one then there is no delay whatsoever.

Anyone run into this issue?
View attachment Cubase Pro Project - Sunrise Long Version-01 2023-07-28 13-16-39.mp4
 
Last edited:
blaggins said:
I did end up getting this with the last of my vouchers for this year. :grin:

I am getting some strange behavior in Cubase when using the VSL-provided expression maps for Duality. This is the first time I'm trying to use one of the VSL ones instead of my usual ArtConductor or make-it-myself variety. Here's the issue:

If I click on a midi part that uses the VSL expression map for Duality, I have to wait >1second for the track to highlight. Basically clicking on the track freezes Cubase for over a second where I can't do anything. I *think* this is because Cubase is taking over a second to load the expression map??? Does this make any sense to anyone, because it feels totally crazy to me. If I use my ArtConductor one then there is no delay whatsoever.

Anyone run into this issue?
View attachment Cubase Pro Project - Sunrise Long Version-01 2023-07-28 13-16-39.mp4
Click to expand...
I have the same in studio one but worse. The more instruments (synchron specifically) I add, the worse it gets. It's always been like that for me.
I know this doesn't help but two is a party, right?
 
holywilly said:
I have increased the preload size to maximum.

Also, layering SDS and Elite chokes my system to death. :mad:

how’s the voicing performance on NVMe over SATA?
Click to expand...
Do you have Vienna Ensemble Pro? I noticed similar issues on two different mobile systems (one windows Ryzen 7, 64 gb of RAM, and one mac M1 Max, 64gb ram).
The newer VSL string libraries can start really struggling with real-time streaming/playback especially when layered together, even when just using basic room mixes. I noticed this when layering Synchron Strings Pro and Elite Strings, most often with Agile Legato. Tons of dropouts and pops and clicks.
Loading them into VEP seems to completely alleviate the issue for me. I haven’t tried it with Duality strings yet but it certainly helps with Synchron Strings I and Pro and Elite. Might be worth trying if you own VEP, though it is obviously an issue that should be addressed and can be frustrating, especially when it happens with really top of the line systems.
 
Denkii said:
I have the same in studio one but worse. The more instruments (synchron specifically) I add, the worse it gets. It's always been like that for me.
I know this doesn't help but two is a party, right?
Click to expand...
Iiiinteresting. I guess it's maybe just an issue with the number of possible combinations of all the options (generally a great thing) that leads to such a large expression map that Cubase can't handle it. Not blaming VSL here, I think this is more of a Cubase problem but it's extremely frustrating.

I want to be able to use the VSL expression maps because the smart way they have the articulations laid out in groups, which means that there are FAR fewer lanes in the Articulations/Dynamics view than if you lay all combos out as separate lanes (like Art Conductor does). But a ~2second (average I'm getting) load time to switch tracks is not really workable.
 
While some here are talking about problems of reading samples fast enough, I would like to offer those who are still undecided a short demo with the "DEFAULT sounds" of the Duality Strings library - that means with the sound as the library was recorded - without any effect.
This demo shows how the A-Library and the B-Library sound on their own and together (dry) and finally with some tail of coarse with the one balance I have chosen. Because I only bought the stereo version, you can only hear the "dark B-orchestra". There is some more info about the Demo on my Website. If you are interested, see and hear the examples on my website here. Later, the video "How this Audio-Demo was produced" will also be available.

---------------------------

Some info about the (not yet finished) demo
The few audio excerpts of the "Serenade in G by Tchaikovsky" will be part of the video I have in production right now. It will show how to use the library cleverly, what you can additionally achieve with the different controllers, how the different presets sound but also what you can additionally get out of the library with your own audio mix. Unlike many other recent demos, this one shows the library all by itself and not in a spectacular composite. So the library has to stand on its own.
Furthermore, the category "mockup", i.e. the reproduction of a piece that everyone knows in real life with real orchestras, is the highest testclass for libraries. "Bad libraries" are quickly recognized as such, because they have too few different articulations, for example, to play music by Mozart or Tchaikovsky in our case as real as possible. By the way: With the used piece of Tchaikovsky I never got into the tight spot of not being able to interpret something the way it needed to be interpreted, which is already a big plus. Alone the many possibilities regarding attacks and releases of the basic articulations is great. Of course, this is accompanied by the disadvantage that you can't really exploit all these possibilities with a few prefabricated and user-friendly expression maps. So I, too, sought out the articulations I needed and put them together in a Customer Preset for having a easier handling with selecting articulations.
But all these things I will show later in the video...

Have Fun
Beat
 
bfreepro said:
Do you have Vienna Ensemble Pro? I noticed similar issues on two different mobile systems (one windows Ryzen 7, 64 gb of RAM, and one mac M1 Max, 64gb ram).
The newer VSL string libraries can start really struggling with real-time streaming/playback especially when layered together, even when just using basic room mixes. I noticed this when layering Synchron Strings Pro and Elite Strings, most often with Agile Legato. Tons of dropouts and pops and clicks.
Loading them into VEP seems to completely alleviate the issue for me. I haven’t tried it with Duality strings yet but it certainly helps with Synchron Strings I and Pro and Elite. Might be worth trying if you own VEP, though it is obviously an issue that should be addressed and can be frustrating, especially when it happens with really top of the line systems.
Click to expand...
Same thing happened in VEP.

I’ll update the Synchron player on Monday to see hot it goes.
 
Paul@Sydney said:
I'm still really happy with SSP. I like the sound of SDS, but too much money to re-spend on yet another string library. This is just me noodling in SSP two handed with exp pedal controlling timbre-adjust, x-fade between senza and reg vib, and dynamics:
Click to expand...
Nice! Agree.

(To my ears) Duality is not different enough from SSI & SSP, or like such a massive jump in quality or tech. I'm not one that thinks I'm owed a discount because I own the existing Synchron strings, that's just not how VSL works. But I just can't feel good about spending $700 on it given my impressions.

A Synchron string library I would spend $700+ on would be:
  • Zodiac sized string sections (channel John Barry please!).
  • A compressive set of arts.
  • All arts recorded with full section sizes but also proper divisi recorded stripped (ala LASS).
  • Ribbon mics on all leaders (like Elite solo mic 2).
  • A proper set of long attack styles with FAST (like SSI) well represented.
  • All the cool techniques like Elite style detache, this new Duality runs stuff as well?
  • Etc.
Is it too much to ask??
 
blaggins said:
Iiiinteresting. I guess it's maybe just an issue with the number of possible combinations of all the options (generally a great thing) that leads to such a large expression map that Cubase can't handle it. Not blaming VSL here, I think this is more of a Cubase problem but it's extremely frustrating.

I want to be able to use the VSL expression maps because the smart way they have the articulations laid out in groups, which means that there are FAR fewer lanes in the Articulations/Dynamics view than if you lay all combos out as separate lanes (like Art Conductor does). But a ~2second (average I'm getting) load time to switch tracks is not really workable.
Click to expand...
I don't know if anyone is following along with the expression map discussion but just wanted to share another data point. There are two sets of VSL-provided expression maps for Duality (1) The XF, Velocity presets and the (2) XF + Velocity presets. The 2nd set applies only to the new-style "VelXF + VelocityCtrl" presets, where the 1st set applies to all the rest (which would be VelXF sus - MOD, VelXF - Mod, and Velocity).

The 1st set are what cause very slow track switching in Cubase. These have something like 675 Sound Slots for V1, V2, Va presets. I'm sure it's the massive number of sound slots that are the root cause of the overhead.

The 2nd set (the VelXF+VelocityCtrl style) work fine. These have 219 Sound Slots defined for the V1, V2, Va presets.

So if you are going to use the VSL expression maps in Cubase, definitely aim for the VelXF+VelocityCtrl presets.

TL;DR - Today I learned that Cubase+expression maps fundamentally "break" at a point somewhere between 200 and 600 sound slots.
 
Trash Panda said:
Could someone please mock up the song below with this new library? I’m feeling the need for some meta mock-ups.

Click to expand...

View attachment I hate my life.mp3

kill me please.
I had to throw it together for the meme. No effort was given and no, I don't want to work on this.

To be clear: This is a joke post. By no means is this an indicator to how the library sounds. It's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever shared and I just thought it's fun.
 
Last edited:
Denkii said:
View attachment I hate my life.mp3

kill me please.
I had to throw it together for the meme. No effort was given and no, I don't want to work on this.

To be clear: This is a joke post. By no means is this an indicator to how the library sounds. It's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever shared and I just thought it's fun.
Click to expand...
The aforementioned bends, I got some uses for those in a piece.... how were they executed? Pitch bend wheel, MIDI CCs, portamento, what? Thanks.
 
Beat Kaufmann said:
While some here are talking about problems of reading samples fast enough, I would like to offer those who are still undecided a short demo with the "DEFAULT sounds" of the Duality Strings library - that means with the sound as the library was recorded - without any effect.
This demo shows how the A-Library and the B-Library sound on their own and together (dry) and finally with some tail of coarse with the one balance I have chosen. Because I only bought the stereo version, you can only hear the "dark B-orchestra". There is some more info about the Demo on my Website. If you are interested, see and hear the examples on my website here. Later, the video "How this Audio-Demo was produced" will also be available.

---------------------------

Some info about the (not yet finished) demo
The few audio excerpts of the "Serenade in G by Tchaikovsky" will be part of the video I have in production right now. It will show how to use the library cleverly, what you can additionally achieve with the different controllers, how the different presets sound but also what you can additionally get out of the library with your own audio mix. Unlike many other recent demos, this one shows the library all by itself and not in a spectacular composite. So the library has to stand on its own.
Furthermore, the category "mockup", i.e. the reproduction of a piece that everyone knows in real life with real orchestras, is the highest testclass for libraries. "Bad libraries" are quickly recognized as such, because they have too few different articulations, for example, to play music by Mozart or Tchaikovsky in our case as real as possible. By the way: With the used piece of Tchaikovsky I never got into the tight spot of not being able to interpret something the way it needed to be interpreted, which is already a big plus. Alone the many possibilities regarding attacks and releases of the basic articulations is great. Of course, this is accompanied by the disadvantage that you can't really exploit all these possibilities with a few prefabricated and user-friendly expression maps. So I, too, sought out the articulations I needed and put them together in a Customer Preset for having a easier handling with selecting articulations.
But all these things I will show later in the video...

Have Fun
Beat
Click to expand...
excellent work! Thanks!
 
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