EvilDragon
KSP Wizard
This depends on Reaper development, not OTR per se. There has been some movement on this front in the pre-releases, but it has some ways to go.
OTR v2.3.05 Update Released (January 4, 2024) ! Orchestral Template For Reaper Release Thread
- Thread starter storyteller
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This depends on Reaper development, not OTR per se. There has been some movement on this front in the pre-releases, but it has some ways to go.
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storyteller
Senior Member
Thanks!
Of course! Ask as many as you need! I'm the same way! Kinda strange how we become spoiled by things like a retina display. I certainly believe that's one leap in technology that will go down as one of Apple's greatest accomplishments over the years.
But to answer your question, all of the videos have been captured on a 27" 5k iMac screen running at the "normal 2x" resolution...and it looks very clean to my eyes. So essentially, the layouts shown have been displayed at 2.5k equivalent, but in retina form. As a whole, I don't think Reaper has fully implemented high-dpi support. Most notably, text isn't retina-crisp. However, it also isn't non-retina-optimized bad either when used at higher resolutions .. so it falls somewhere in-between as the Reaper devs march toward implementing scalable vector graphics and text. It is somewhat based on what resolution you choose to run Reaper in compared to your native resolution. But also note that Reaper does have a built in "scaler" that can scale graphics up and down to accommodate for this. So complicated answer, but in short it looks good on a 27" 5k iMac, with the exception that text could be sharper.
For those that may wonder about their current resolution and use with Reaper... obviously the more screen real estate you have, the better it will look. Thus far in the development process, OTR has been fully optimized for use with displays of 1920x1080 and up (I use a retina iMac 5k running at 2.5k effectively). Anything below this can certainly be used, but you may wish to toggle things like the master output on the right side off, or toggle the track lane on the left off. These "frame" the tracking area and will free up space when not needed. They are both a keyboard shortcut toggle away. On much smaller display resolutions (e.g. 1280 x 720), the number of menu items on the top toolbars might roll into two rows (depending on which menu). If this is the case for you, you may be okay with the two rows, or you can easily customize the toolbar by shortening the text labels, turning the buttons into half-size, removing the spaces between the sections, or by placing smaller icons on them instead of text, etc. That will be covered in the manual and at some point in the future, I plan to include low-resolution optimized menu configurations.
Blake's plugin that was showcased in video 3 is still limited to 16 articulations I believe. I think the native expression map functionality that the Reaper team is putting together is not limited.
jemu999
Active Member
1. On Cubase I like that I'm able to see if a given track is on Read or Write for any automation I add, without having to expand the track. Is this possible?
2. My whole goal with OTR is to get rid of my slave computers, and create a large template within Reaper using the disable feature. Have all tracks loaded but disabled. Unfortunately with the Cubase audio engine on Mac, I was running into issues when enabling more than 50 tracks. Based on your experience with Reaper, what are your thoughts? I'm either going to upgrade to an iMac 5k 4.0ghz or upgrade my Mac Pro 5,1 to a 12 core 3.46? Any idea based on your own experience which might be better?
Thanks for all your help! I'm sold on OTR and will take advantage of the preorder!
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storyteller
Senior Member
No problem! Now I see what you are saying. So let's get to the answers...
In the default theme that is used (and you can change themes very easily in Reaper), you have two ways to see the envelope mode. If the track is selected, it will display the envelope mode in the vertical track bar on the left side of the screen. In the videos, look just beneath the green play button looking icon along the right side of the meter on the the track. That is an icon indicating the envelope mode.
If you want to see it on the horizontal track lane itself, you will have to increase the track height to show the second row of information. When you enlarge the track, it auto fills in that information. Some themes may have that included on the minimized version.
As for which envelopes are in an armed state, Reaper does this very simply. If it is visible, its armed. If it is hidden, it is in read mode. If the envelope is visible and you want to disarm it but keep it showing, you can do that to. You just click the green arm/disarm button on the left side and it will toggle the state.
This is where I personally believe OTR shines. I have been running it on a 4.0ghz maxed out iMac 5k and it works very very well. Tough call on the vader helmet vs the iMac, but for me, the display won me over. If the new mac pros come out, I'll have to reconsider. But with OTR using a freeze/disable concept, it will perform better than many host/slave setups because of one simple thing. The bottleneck isn't ram. Assume for a moment, that RAM is unlimited (even though it isn't). The bottleneck is voices in Kontakt. It will be every time. Run a complex library, you will hit that limit before anything else breaks a sweat.
As an example, NI Symphony Series Strings has auto-divisi. The way the library plays a SINGLE note, is that it combines each divisi sample. So with a single key press on a single mic position, you consume four divisi streams of audio for the main sample, four for the attack, four for the release. That's 12 samples that will likely be overlapping at some point. Now, turn on 3 mic positions. That is 36 notes. And there is something I'm missing because the actual count in Kontakt is 48 notes. So, now play two notes. Doubled. Essentially a run could hit 1000 voices in the blink of an eye. Now that's just for Violins. Ensemble? Forget about it. Toast. Kontakt croaks. Mac pro or iMac? It wouldn't matter. The mac pro would survive longer, but still not make the cut.
Take the incredible Evolution Series World Percussion. Play a flam on the Dun ensemble. With four mic positions it consumes something like 1000 notes if you allow it.
You may be saying Kontakt can cycle off notes and you can cap the number of voices. True. You can, but it doesn't sound right in many cases. It can be very unnatural. That said, it can be a solution for the scenario above. But it is a bandaid.
But with the freeze/disable concept you can enable the violins in OTR, record. Freeze. Enable Violas, record, freeze. And so on, you get the equivalent of thousands and thousands of voices in complex orchestral passages. The best slave system would not pull that off. It is the same concept you could do in other DAWs that have freeze functionality, but building the templates is another story. It just doesn't work well.
So all that said, I'm not sure which one to recommend. If you have a great display, maybe go with more horsepower. But the 5k iMac screen is something that you don't realize how incredible it is until you look at any lesser monitor. And to me, the screen real estate is just as important as any other cpu/ram metric when choosing a new computer. So, that's kinda my two cents on the subject. Either will work well.
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storyteller
Senior Member
Haha. I almost edited that out of the video since I was thinking out loud when I said that. But yes, OTR includes a TouchOSC template. It is intended to be used with some of the more advanced library TrackPacks that will be released in the future but will be included with the initial release.
Think of it as the universal way OTR will treat CC control for many of the track packs that don't have preconfigured CCs. For example, NI's Symphony Series has no CC mapping by default. So the TrackPacks will include CC mapping out of the box and can be used with the TouchOSC template. But, you will still probably find it is really a nice template to use as a potential "everyday" TouchOSC template regardless. It was designed with consideration of the other Major developers CC mapping philosophies. So even though every developer is different, the template should handle what it can similarly regardless of developer.
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storyteller
Senior Member
Today I've added five new videos that showcase how to use Track Templates and how to use the Library Builder feature which will allow you to design your own TrackPacks. Hope you enjoy! 
In particular, I think you just may be pleasantly surprised on the "OTR Mapped" version of the track templates. Not to spoil anything or spill the beans on new surprises upcoming, but you will see this feature used in some really amazing things to come (that I haven't yet shared)... More videos upcoming! 
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 1 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 2 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 3 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 4 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 5 of 5
In particular, I think you just may be pleasantly surprised on the "OTR Mapped" version of the track templates. Not to spoil anything or spill the beans on new surprises upcoming, but you will see this feature used in some really amazing things to come (that I haven't yet shared)... More videos upcoming! OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 1 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 2 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 3 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 4 of 5
OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 5 of 5
gregh
Senior Member
I've been using Reaper since pre v1 days and it has grown increasingly difficult to use through the addition of hundreds of functions, some of which can have unanticipated effects. The devs have shown no interest in usability at all which is a shame but ... I have thought for quite a while that the devs have been turning Reaper into more of a platform for others to put together rather than a DAW in and of its own. OTR is the first product I've seen that takes the Reaper-as-a-platform idea and makes a genuine product. I know a lot of composers and people who develop sample libraries and so on have built their own workflows - but OTR seems to be the first to make that available publicly in a robust and comprehensive form. I actually think OTR will make Reaper easier to learn for composers (not so much for people just strumming a guitar or in a grunge band / whatever for which Reaper is fine out of the box)
re not being a typical media composer - I know how you feel and sympathise. Most of my work is for artist videos / installations or for myself. Small scale and quite different in requirements one to the other. Out of the box Reaper is hopeless for that because you basically have to restructure the workspace each time and seldom get to memorise shortcuts etc
BUT - I have just found out on the Reaper forum that you can install multiple Reapers by installing as a portable install on different folders on your hard-drive. Then you can have a different Reaper for each type of practice you are engaged in at the time. And each one of those Reapers can be open at the same time and you can copy and paste between them!
So I will have a REAPER_OTR folder with Reaper set up for OTR and another folder REAPER_GENERAL with Reaper set up for my work that doesn't need so many tracks and uses completely different customisations. When OTR updates I just have to update in the REAPER_OTR folder.
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Maximvs
Senior Member
Thanks Gregh for your kind reply and feedback on Reaper and how you use it... More I watch the OTR videos and more I realize how much it helps new people like myself coming to Reaper for the first time... Cheers, Max
juliansader
Member
I am delighted that someone has made a video about my MIDI scripts!
Anyone who is curious about these MIDI functions is welcome to visit the discussion/support threads in the REAPER forums:
MIDI editor tools: warp, stretch, deselect etc
LFO tool for MIDI editor and envelopes
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devonmyles
Senior Member
So, at present, what Vendor libraries are in the 'TrackPacks' ?
Is this info on the website and I have missed it?
Is so, my apologies.
Not a Reaper user, but this sure looks interesting.
Is this info on the website and I have missed it?
Is so, my apologies.
Not a Reaper user, but this sure looks interesting.
Hi Storyteller,
I have read through the the website and I am working my way through the videos and must say OTR looks very interesting. I have attempted using Reaper a number of times over the years but have never managed to get very far with it.
I am particularly interested in using Reaper for the sub-project function for separate cues in film scoring as demonstrated by Caleb Faith in another thread. This is one thing I find is a workflow killer in Cubase as I really like having all cues in the one project. This becomes a nightmare with recuts and cue versions as the tempo track becomes un-manageable. I have tried DP for it's chunks function but it was very buggy on my PC. Would the sub-project Reaper workflow work with OTR?
Another thing I need is 5.1 as most scores I do have to be delivered in 5.1 stems. I had a go trying to setup Nugen Halo in Reaper last night to test basic stereo to 5.1 up-mixing but couldn't figure it out. I also found Rea-surround panner to be quite confusing. You mentioned you would be looking into a 5.1 version of OTR and I was wondering when this might be and if there are better surround panning options than Rea-surround? I would also miss Cubase's control room for quickly checking fold-downs but I might be able to use my AIO Totalmix for that.
Finally, I don't really compose in a traditional orchestral setup and if I were to change the stem categories and effects to suite my specific workflow would this mess up everything that's going on under the hood, or could I easily just customise the OTR base as needed?
Ideally if I could customise OTR for my own categories/fx, have it running in 5.1 (including fx), use sub projects per cue, synch Videoslave 3 seamlessly and use Totalmix as a control room it could be the solution I've been wanting for years...
I have read through the the website and I am working my way through the videos and must say OTR looks very interesting. I have attempted using Reaper a number of times over the years but have never managed to get very far with it.
I am particularly interested in using Reaper for the sub-project function for separate cues in film scoring as demonstrated by Caleb Faith in another thread. This is one thing I find is a workflow killer in Cubase as I really like having all cues in the one project. This becomes a nightmare with recuts and cue versions as the tempo track becomes un-manageable. I have tried DP for it's chunks function but it was very buggy on my PC. Would the sub-project Reaper workflow work with OTR?
Another thing I need is 5.1 as most scores I do have to be delivered in 5.1 stems. I had a go trying to setup Nugen Halo in Reaper last night to test basic stereo to 5.1 up-mixing but couldn't figure it out. I also found Rea-surround panner to be quite confusing. You mentioned you would be looking into a 5.1 version of OTR and I was wondering when this might be and if there are better surround panning options than Rea-surround? I would also miss Cubase's control room for quickly checking fold-downs but I might be able to use my AIO Totalmix for that.
Finally, I don't really compose in a traditional orchestral setup and if I were to change the stem categories and effects to suite my specific workflow would this mess up everything that's going on under the hood, or could I easily just customise the OTR base as needed?
Ideally if I could customise OTR for my own categories/fx, have it running in 5.1 (including fx), use sub projects per cue, synch Videoslave 3 seamlessly and use Totalmix as a control room it could be the solution I've been wanting for years...
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storyteller
Senior Member
Thanks for all of the replies. I'm going to get to the answers after this post. But first.... I want to unveil a new video demonstrating what is quite possibly my favorite feature of OTR (at least in what's been unveiled thus far 
). This video focuses on QUAD Mixing and I'll also be adding this video to the primary post of this thread as well.
But here's what you need to know. OTR comes preconfigured for QUAD mixing - including bouncing to QUAD stems. No additional setup required. Make sure your 1/2 outputs are connected to your fronts and your 3/4 outputs to your rears. It is really that easy. Reverb/FX channels are preconfigured. No sloppy routing to make it happen either.
But the BIG feature - though please try to stick through the whole video (I know it is long) - is unveiled at around 19 minutes. Skip there if you are short on time. I am most, most proud of this. And I'm sure you may figure out when you see what is unveiled with the ways OTR can handle quad mixing, there will be even more to be revealed along the journey with OTR.
I'm going to get to the answers after this post. But first.... I want to unveil a new video demonstrating what is quite possibly my favorite feature of OTR (at least in what's been unveiled thus far ). This video focuses on QUAD Mixing and I'll also be adding this video to the primary post of this thread as well.But here's what you need to know. OTR comes preconfigured for QUAD mixing - including bouncing to QUAD stems. No additional setup required. Make sure your 1/2 outputs are connected to your fronts and your 3/4 outputs to your rears. It is really that easy. Reverb/FX channels are preconfigured. No sloppy routing to make it happen either.
But the BIG feature - though please try to stick through the whole video (I know it is long) - is unveiled at around 19 minutes. Skip there if you are short on time. I am most, most proud of this. And I'm sure you may figure out when you see what is unveiled with the ways OTR can handle quad mixing, there will be even more to be revealed along the journey with OTR.
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storyteller
Senior Member
Thank you! You haven't missed itSo, at present, what Vendor libraries are in the 'TrackPacks' ?
Is this info on the website and I have missed it?
Is so, my apologies.
Not a Reaper user, but this sure looks interesting.
The TrackPacks are still in the final stages of being completed so it will be closer to release date before I can provide a full list. But - also know - that if for some reason your favorite VI is not there at launch, the Collection Series will be constantly expanded and updated as more developers come on board. That's one of the great benefits of getting in early with the promo bundle. So, right now I'm working on getting as many VIs as I can get in there by the launch. That's my primary focus right now on the march to the 14th
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storyteller
Senior Member
Hello!
I would think so. I can't see any reason why it would not work in the same way as Caleb demonstrated. But I'll see if I can test that out more extensively in the days to come.... and maybe post a video on it too.
Before I got a chance to reply to this, I posted a video on the extensive QUAD features in OTR. Check that out. I think you may be exceedingly happy with the way OTR handles QUAD mixing. As for 5.1 and up, those features will be fully released (as a free upgrade of course) shortly after the initial OTR launch... hopefully within the 30 days following (subject to final testing). But the 5.1+ support is going to be quite remarkable. I'm really excited about those features. If you watch the QUAD video, I'm sure you can gather why I'm so excited about the 5.1 and up features.
In OTR, any track name that has a lock icon beside it is not supposed to have the track name changed - which is the case with the category names. You can certainly change the FX names though. For supporting OTR with a lot of users, I thought this was the best middle-ground solution (e.g. touch this, don't touch that). However, I do have plans to open up the ability to officially rename categories in a subsequent update (likely the first update which should include 5.1+ support).
That last part is great to hear! I honestly think this will be that very solution you've been waiting for. You just might have to wait on that first update to find your Complete Composer's Nirvana with 5.1.
As soon as I can get the surround features fully vetted for commercial use, and open up the category names, I will. On an unsupported side note, if you were to change the category names after the dash (VI-C: 1 - XXXXXX), you'd be okay for visual organization before any update arrives.Thanks for the reply, that all sounds really promising!
I watched through the quad vid and the single button routing looks great. I quite often use in-between positioning in surround like sending the outriggers halfway between the front and rear speakers, and to allow for this is there a possibility of a surround panner for the 16 outputs in the future? This could allow for extreme flexibility which would be pretty amazing.
For 5.1 I generally derive my centre channel from stereo sources using Nugen Halo as it folds back perfectly to stereo when in exact mode. Something I have been trying to figure out how to do in Cubase is say for example, if I had Spitfire Chamber Strings V1, send the ambience mics to the rear left/right, outriggers halfway between the front and rear and the tree to the front left/right. Once this is routed, create an LCR from the left/right using Halo to diverge into the centre channel. To do this in Cubase is a mess as you can imagine.
Other than diverging the centre via Halo, I also use some discrete centre positioning of sounds and sometimes just the centre reverb from a 5.0 reverb send. I also use dynamic panning in the 5.1 field so a good automated surround panner is pretty important (this is one area where Cubase excels)
The way you set up the loopback function to demonstrate the video got me thinking that the 5.1 template could allow for a fold-down option to represent the coefficients -3db centre and -3db surrounds. The would essentially recreate what I use Cubase control room for. It could also be cool to offer an option to create a stereo fold down from 5.1 in the stem rendering section set to these same coefficients as I need to output stereo versions for the director etc.
I watched through the quad vid and the single button routing looks great. I quite often use in-between positioning in surround like sending the outriggers halfway between the front and rear speakers, and to allow for this is there a possibility of a surround panner for the 16 outputs in the future? This could allow for extreme flexibility which would be pretty amazing.
For 5.1 I generally derive my centre channel from stereo sources using Nugen Halo as it folds back perfectly to stereo when in exact mode. Something I have been trying to figure out how to do in Cubase is say for example, if I had Spitfire Chamber Strings V1, send the ambience mics to the rear left/right, outriggers halfway between the front and rear and the tree to the front left/right. Once this is routed, create an LCR from the left/right using Halo to diverge into the centre channel. To do this in Cubase is a mess as you can imagine.
Other than diverging the centre via Halo, I also use some discrete centre positioning of sounds and sometimes just the centre reverb from a 5.0 reverb send. I also use dynamic panning in the 5.1 field so a good automated surround panner is pretty important (this is one area where Cubase excels)
The way you set up the loopback function to demonstrate the video got me thinking that the 5.1 template could allow for a fold-down option to represent the coefficients -3db centre and -3db surrounds. The would essentially recreate what I use Cubase control room for. It could also be cool to offer an option to create a stereo fold down from 5.1 in the stem rendering section set to these same coefficients as I need to output stereo versions for the director etc.
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storyteller
Senior Member
The fold down option is a great idea. I'll certainly look into that.
As for the blending of mics between the F/R channels, as well as surround panners and such with the push-button functionality, the plan is to have that all addressed in the surround update. As you can imagine, there's quite a bit of routing that's going on behind the scenes already - so I want to make sure I do it right and efficiently, and in a manner that is easy for anyone to pick up and push a button to produce the desired results. I'm obviously exceedingly happy about the QUAD push-button functionality and I think where your mind is heading with the thoughts on surround is along the same path the surround update will demonstrate
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jemu999
Active Member
Personally, I think it is much more helpful seeing the envelope icon on the horizontal track. Its easy to not realize a track, out of hundreds, is on write and you start messing with things. Its odd, because on the default reaper theme, you are able to see the envelope mode in horizontal tracks without having to "increase the track height" as you say:
BTW: I just pre-ordered!
