jbuhler
Senior Member
How demanding is the library on resources when fully loaded in? Will you be able to load up your brass and have RAM left over for other instruments?
Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass (MSB)
- Thread starter zolhof
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Guy Rowland
Senior Member
https://thesoundboard.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3281&p=48808#p48808 (hope this is ok, mods let me know if not and I'll zap). I just discovered the Intuition patches and they are absolutely stunning, I put a couple of quick demos of those up too.
SoNowWhat?
realised I can type here
Thank you Guy. Again.
I’d also like to know what you think of resource usage.
And can I ask you about placement and if you’ve looked at that? How well does it work using the tools included? Or with third party tools and if so which?
I know that’s demanding but anything you can say or manage to do is appreciated. Thank you again.
I’ve just dropped funds on some new hardware as I wasn’t fully on board but reading your comments (and about to listen on Soundboard) I might have to earn some more funds pronto.
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
Well, I'm 98% sure I'm going to put the Close / Decca / Surround onto rust, the differences are really small in this hall, it's nothing like as pronounced as for an ambient library. Incidentally I think this could be the same hall as LASS, confirming what I've always thought that the single mix they provided for LASS works just fine (it was a mix of close, Decca and Surround just as with MSB AFAIK), and others are just bloat really.
So loading up the following Full Mix only patches with all artics loaded:
Horns 1, Trumpets, Piccolo Trumpets, Bones, Cimbassi, Tuba, Flugelhorn, Euphonium and a couple of Intuition patches comes to 3.67gb on preload buffers of 18k. That's really very reasonable imo. I run disabled in VE Pro and usually purged, but I know some of these patches aren't DFD, so will likely break it down into a few different patches some of which will be purged and some not. Though TBH these figures are so low I may as well run them unpurged but disabled.
SoNowWhat - I've not yet touched placement tools yet, finding the defaults a perfectly good start though. I've added some dry (in both senses of the word) examples of the different mic mixes without reverb, along with some dynamics tests on the shorts.
jbuhler
Senior Member
thanks for this run down.
jneebz
Senior Member
Maybe for Hans
I realize it’s pretty subjective, I just appreciate how it breaks up without getting too “buzzy.”Maybe for Hans
Actually comparing to CSB or WA 2FH or Organic Samples Horn lib.
Go To 11
Senior Member
Thanks so much for all these amazing examples! Really great to hear the library in isolation. It does sound fantastic. Longs, shorts, mic mixes - we owe you one! I believe the library was recorded in Studio 22 in Budapest where they also recorded Genesis and the NI Symphonic Strings (made by AudioBro): https://www.budapestfilmorchestra.com/studios
ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
to be fair, I'm pretty sure CSB and WA have probably the most ridiculous top dynamic of any horn library I've heard ever. You'll never get players to put out that much air in real life anyways - so it's not a tremendous loss. CSB is blistering, and if WA had 4 players with the same lungs on them I think I'd be pressing charges.
Outside of those 2 libraries - getting a LEGATO patch with that amount of cuivre is pretty wild. I'm not sure what music you listen to that features that dynamic held for any reasonable length of time. Maybe you're confusing real life with a whole generation of sample music?
Duncan Krummel
Just Passing Through
I have agree with this sentiment about the trumpets, and it had been foiling any good attempt at creating a demo for the shorts. Finally realized the trumpets just sound off, or at least I haven't found a convincing setting for them. The differences between the same phrases played by a tutti patch and separate solo patches is also something worth investigating.
Thank you! I may very well turn it into something more, once my plate clears up a bit. But I appreciate all of the kind words from everyone
jbuhler
Senior Member
Thanks everyone for the comments and examples. The horn and trumpet videos along with @Guy Rowland's examples have convinced me that the library is not overly fussy and Guy's comments suggest it will not demand too many resources. I didn't especially like the sound of the trombones in Guy's examples nor the euphoniums or flugelhorns. The trombones are especially concerning, and I await Audiobro's closer look on them. The tuba sounds great, but I had a sense this was a gem from the initial walkthrough video. Some additional contextual demos that show how the instruments sit in an orchestral context or comments from those who have the library about how much (if at all) you have to tweak the instruments to get them to sit would be appreciated.
Pianolando
Active Member
This library sounds absolutely friggin awesome!
What is true is not a lot of sample libraries capture this dynamic. What is also true is that CSB and WA 2FH did it with real horn players.
Most compositions would probably have the modwheel going to 100-110 at max, but it's nice to have that extra power there when you need it.
Guy Rowland
Senior Member
Can you put your finger on what you don't like about those instruments? I'm pretty delighted with all three, ecstatic with the flugelhorns actually.
Geoff Grace
Senior Member
Perhaps the distinction to make is of what's possible vs what's probable.
I've attended orchestral recording sessions, but I've never attended an orchestral sampling session. That said, I imagine the process of sampling an orchestral instrument (or sections) to be more akin to vocal tracking and comping than to orchestral tracking. In other words, through sampling, you can capture exceptional performances and then play them over and over again at the keyboard as if they were commonplace.
While it's always good to have options, it's probably also wise to consider how things will sound under normal conditions—especially if a mockup is being used to provide an example of how an orchestra will sound.
Of course, if the piece you're working on is the ends and not the means, then all that matters is getting the sound you want. In a world in which quantizing and Auto Tune are commonplace, an exceptionally blistering brass part will fade into the woodwork.
Best,
Geoff
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ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
ross Sampson's waverunner audio
jbuhler
Senior Member
I would say none of them are bad—they aren't unusable or anything—but they each lack what I think of as the distinctive sound of the instrument. The flugelhorns I know less well, never having played in an ensemble that used them regularly, but the bits I heard lack the mellow, conical sound I associate with the instrument. The euphonium was similar and this is an instrument I'm well acquainted with. But especially in the upper range where it is often used for solos it lacked the character, which I would describe as almost velvety, I want. I noticed this in the Holst example upthread as well.
In the examples, the trombones sound more to me like generic low brass than distinctly trombones. Compared to the trumpet, horn, and tuba in particular, they just seem undistinguished. I would be interested in hearing how well the trombones can snarl as well as a swell played by the trombones and the horns back to back, both in the mid-upper range in close position and then in the lower-mid range in open spacing. And then doing something like the big trombone entrance of the Pilgrim's Chorus from the Tannhäuser Overture. Does the distinctive coloring of the trombone emerge? When Audiobro does the closer look with the trombone, I'm hopeful it just happened to be the examples and the distinctive character is in the samples.
NoamL
Winter <3
Well, currently I work as a MIDI wrangler. Also known as Synthestrator. So I can tell you that synthestrators aren't spending weeks on demos either. The time scales just don't exist. I am looking for libraries that sound 90% great fast and, even more importantly, for the 10% lack of realism that remains, I know what controls to change to predictably make a desired change in the sound. Inconsistently programmed libraries are a huge unaffordable time sink because they force a synthestrator to sit there and experiment with all the control options trying to get to a goal sound.
The top dynamic level of CSB isn't meant for sustained playing. It's not realistic to do so and indeed, the sample are only a few seconds long so you can hear quite audible looping on some notes (mostly horns).
So why even record that level of dynamics? I think Andrew W put it very well in one of his videos. You're not going to use fff often but when you need it, it has to be available. I use it on things like the final push of a crescendo. Or when you're playing a staccato ostinato that's been moving from f to ff and the last note has to really BLAST, then you can use fff. For the most part, keeping the modwheel at 100 for CSB legatos (70 for marcato legato) is as loud as you'll ever want orchestral brass to get. Until you need fff for those special moments.
You don't notice a ceiling - until you bump your head on it! Then it's frustrating.
NoamL
Winter <3
To @Geoff Grace 's point, the project I'm assisting on had a brass recording session recently and I was surprised by how mellow, rounded, and close-to-horn-like the low brass sounded compared to the distinctly bright CSB trombones. I had got too used to that sound, and perhaps had lost touch with the sound of real brass. The first chair horn, a renowned musician, of course completely blew away the solo horn lines I had synthestrated. We ain't never gonna replace musicians
