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Samplicity announces Berlin Studio plugin

Very interesting, thank you!

With the trumpets:
Do you think the difference in "sharpness/transients" could be explained by the amount of the dry signal channel used here in Berlin Studio?
Or am I actually hearing different samples or sample layers?
 
Trash Panda said:
Spot 2 through Berlin Studio Tree vs Library Recorded Tree

BB Trumpet Ens Staccatos
View attachment BB Trumpets Samp vs Tree.mp3

JXL Trumpets a3 Staccatos
View attachment JXL Trumpets a3 Samp vs Tree.mp3

BB Horns a4 Staccatos
View attachment BB Horns a4 Samp vs Tree.mp3

JXL Horns a4 Staccatos
View attachment JXL Horns a4 Samp vs Tree.mp3

BB Trombones Ens Staccatos
View attachment BB Bones Ens Samp vs Tree.mp3
Click to expand...
Thanks for doing this! The JXL horns sounded most similar, but the library tree mic has a punch that’s missing in the Berlin Studio version for all of these. Perhaps a different wet/dry balance would change that?
 
Peter Emanuel Roos said:
Very interesting, thank you!

With the trumpets:
Do you think the difference in "sharpness/transients" could be explained by the amount of the dry signal channel used here in Berlin Studio?
Or am I actually hearing different samples or sample layers?
Click to expand...
Could be because I’m using Spot 2 instead of Spot 1. I seem to recall Spot 1 being more focus on the first chair and Spot 2 was for the whole section. Might just be different mic types though.
 
The recorded version is clearer but the convo version has doubled the room signal no? Spot mics has room information plus the convo i mean. Could that be what explains the difference? Thanks Thrash Panda.
edited: Just to be clear, i think the differences are marginal imo. I was just wondering what could explain the difference fro a tecknical point of view. Of course a recording of an instrument in a room will alwasy have an edge over dry source plus convo but here it's not an issue. And who would hear the difference in a full mix anyway.
 
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Peter this tool sounds fantastic! Thank you so much for devleoping it. :2thumbs:Where do I find the user manual. I cant find one after doing the install a few days ago. Thanks!
 
Peter Emanuel Roos said:
That is actually what the delay(s) in the plugin are/were meant for. Especially the one in the dry input channel.

There is an approach used by a number of classical recording engineers:
- Use overall microphone sets, like the Decca Tree, or what you often see in concert halls hanging from the ceiling: an AB-Pair
- But also use spot mics at low levels
- Delay the sound of these spot mics with a time equivalent to the instance to the center Decca microphone
- This merges the sounds from the spot mics and the global mics and in the case of samples also puts early reflections back in a correct range

What it also does is - I discovered more recently - is smoothen the transients contained in the dry signal (!), and making them more distant by the EQ effect this has.

For woodwinds, for instance, if I remember well, that delay of the dry signal should be around 18 msec.

My intention is to include an auto-align option in a future version that does this automatically. I have calculated all time delays and thus distances for the stage positions.

This will be done, not by delaying the direct sound, but by skipping all the IR samples until the first significant sound in the Decca center. Meaning that the dry sound will still play immediately, but the global mics start "earlier". I find this very effective and have used it in all my current demos on the Samplicity site.

When we work with samples, there will be no more subtle break between the dry sound, its early reflections and what the global mics pick up.

In this first release I personally find the delays confusing, maybe they should go out, because people may not understand their short range (which is already equivalent to more than the studio's depth). It is different from pre-delays in regular reverbs, this is for such subtle time alignments.

To come back to your question about our perception, if you would look at the IRs from the Decca for the woodwinds, you would see that the ERs start later, after a near silence. Using a sample where the ERs start right away is in theory (and in my view) indeed not the best option, but I am not sure if many people would notice... A nerdy person, like me :-D would experiment with this delay stuff...

A very good topic, that will certainly make it into a blog post, that I hope to be able to write...
Programming can nearly be put aside for a while, then the site and shop need a good update, support with ticketing, FAQ etc, advertizing and then good documentation. Because who reads manuals? ;)

Cheers
Click to expand...
This is fascinating! I learned a lot just from reading this post. Please don't remove the delay options! I didn't fully understand their purpose at first, but will start experimenting now.

UPDATE: Whoa! Increasing the delay of the dry signal really helps glue the signals together. Thanks for the tip!

Case in point: CSW solo flute (close mic only) sounds much more focused with the correct delay setting (18 ms):

Delay OFF:

View attachment CSW Flute 0 ms.mp3

Delay 18 ms:

View attachment CSW Flute 18 ms.mp3

Dry (for reference):

View attachment CSW Flute Dry.mp3


@Peter Emanuel Roos Is there any risk that slightly wrong delay values will introduce phasing issues?

Do you happen to know what the delay of the dry signal should be for the different string sections?
 
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Kalli said:
This is fascinating! I learned a lot just from reading this post. Please don't remove the delay options! I didn't fully understand their purpose at first, but will start experimenting now.

UPDATE: Whoa! Increasing the delay of the dry signal really helps glue the signals together. Thanks for the tip!

Case in point: CSW solo flute (close mic only) sounds much more focused with the correct delay setting (18 ms):

Delay OFF:

View attachment CSW Flute 0 ms.mp3

Delay 18 ms:

View attachment CSW Flute 18 ms.mp3

Dry (for reference):

View attachment CSW Flute Dry.mp3


@Peter Emanuel Roos Is there any risk that slightly wrong delay values will introduce phasing issues?

Do you happen to know what the delay of the dry signal should be for the different string sections?
Click to expand...
It is not uncommon to align close signals to room mics by mixing engineers, so it is great that this is build in. Actually, it would be great that many sample developers would do the same with their room mics.

The cpu usage is impressive, but I’m a bit worried how my future AMD pc will perform with this plugin, but I hope it will run it well enough.
 
Peter Emanuel Roos said:
I just read your question and I am checking it with the vendor of this licensing service. My intention was to have semi-online use, so certainly not forcing you to be always connected.
Click to expand...
Hello, do I understand it correctly that at the moment the plug-in does not work without computer being online (connected to the internet) and the intention was/is that it works without it for some time but after that time it will stop working and it will need to 'call home' in order to go on? Since it uses the iLok licencing system, isn't the iLok key there to give users the option of working offline?
I believe if the plugin really needs to re-licence itself, even from time to time, it should be stated in requirements.
 
Pianist said:
Hello, do I understand it correctly that at the moment the plug-in does not work without computer being online (connected to the internet) and the intention was/is that it works without it for some time but after that time it will stop working and it will need to 'call home' in order to go on? Since it uses the iLok licencing system, isn't the iLok key there to give users the option of working offline?
I believe if the plugin really needs to re-licence itself, even from time to time, it should be stated in requirements.
Click to expand...
That's an important detail to know... Is that true?

(iLok makes sense because it is supposed to be indipendant from being online and because it makes switching computers and re installing software a breeze.)
 
Pianist said:
I believe if the plugin really needs to re-licence itself, even from time to time, it should be stated in requirements.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. I bought the plug in today and now read here that it is only usable on online computers, which is a no go for me. My computers are not online more often than every few months. Fortunately I haven't downloaded or registered it yet, so hopefully they can cancel the purchase. Will get in touch about this.
Would have preferred Ilok copy protection. Very very sad.
 
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