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Procrastination to a point of giving up music

But that takes patience and perseverance, and it ain't always fun every lonely step of the way.
100%. And guess who is really bad in both of these disciplines :grin:
I want things that I can‘t have right now because I‘m not there with my craft yet and I‘m so impatient
 


I just pulled this up as it was relevant to another thread and I think also really on point for this thread.

Listen to what John Debney says a 2:45 onward.

Be kind to yourself, and the best you can be for what your natural gift, knowledge base and experience is. Don't compare with John Williams or Beethoven, other than as models to get better. Even somebody like Hans Zimmer, has a whole team of people to help him accomplish what he does. That is like climbing Mt. Everest. It is possible to get the that level, but understand the goal in relation to self--are they aligned?
 
First off, you don't have to do anything at all. Second, we all eventually have to face "the judge," but it sounds as though you're putting The Judge too early -- like immediately. So of course nothing sounds any good.
This judge can be so hard for me at times. I can even sit down at the piano and press one note and this judge screams at me „wrooooong“. Which is so stupid I know, but from this state it is nearly impossible to come out with anything. This is not always the case but here and there and it can drive me nuts. That‘s why I switched to pen and paper, so I don‘t fall into this trap because I don‘t have the audible feedback, so the judge is not able to speak, but as I said at some point you have to move into the world of sample etc.
 
Trick is to find other creative things that’ll give you joy and allow you to pat yourself on the back for achieving something (with less mental gymnastics involved) When in a rut, I’ll do 2 things - Photography / gardening.

Photography for de-cluttering the mind, going out being present trying to capture a peaceful moment to look back on.

Gardening, growing veg or flowers - because it’s a nurturing process and the end result is very rewarding which you can pat yourself on the back for.

Not to say these things would work for others, but you catch my drift… Find things that allow you to appreciate yourself, that are also creative in nature and give you a small mental break from music.
 
This judge can be so hard for me at times. I can even sit down at the piano and press one note and this judge screams at me „wrooooong“. Which is so stupid I know, but from this state it is nearly impossible to come out with anything. This is not always the case but here and there and it can drive me nuts. That‘s why I switched to pen and paper, so I don‘t fall into this trap because I don‘t have the audible feedback, so the judge is not able to speak, but as I said at some point you have to move into the world of sample etc.
There are two mechanisms you can use to try to address this issue. Basically, you just need practice as practice is the best method to avoid sucking (or at least feeling you suck).

Mechanism #1: Do you like improvisation? Well, you should because improvisation was the essence of partimento and an increasing amount of research is pointing to the fact that most players in ye olden days and all composers did a lot of improv. OK, with partimento it's kind of a pattern-matching approach to to improv. But it's improv. And improv lets you suck for periods interspersed with moments of "oh, that worked".

Also, it's good just to improv or take common tunes and build variations around them just to get practice with melodic and harmonic forms.

Mechanism #2: Great artists steal. Nick a theme or motif from someone else, preferably dead and out of copyright. And probably best to avoid famous stuff because it's natural to feel that the next bit will be harder with the famous stuff. Someone like Czerny is a decent target for this kind of thing: sounds like Beethoven but never got no respect. And out of copyright. Bingo.

Then develop the theme/motif as if it were your own using the common techniques (eg sentence/period form, sequences, inversion, retrograde, extension etc). This should get you over the hump of feeling you don't have a good starting point because you do have a good starting point: it got published. And Czerny was by no means a bad composer.

Try different settings and orchestrations for the developed theme. Now you're practicing and hopefully gaining some confidence and getting a bit more fun back into the exercise – even if it starts off as an exercise. After all, this kind of thing worked wonders for James Horner when Cameron told him the deadline for the soundtrack was yesterday.
 
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I haven't read this thread through yet, but here are my thoughts: It's all part of the creative process. It has taken more years to git gud than I care to admit, and I am no longer the kid I was when I started.

Ask yourself, are you having fun? Honestly if you don't enjoy something, why are you doing it? Are you in it for the fame, money, and the glory? Maybe it's time for a reality check. You create a masterwork of genius and guess what? Nobody cares. Getting heard and recognized is nigh impossible. I haven't gotten a lick of clout for what I'm capable of so far. But I just keep plugging away.

Honestly writing music kind of sucks. It can be painfully difficult. You ever had a job that sucks? Jobs are work. Music is damn hard work. I admit I do have to force myself at times. And it hurts my lil brain cell. But it's usually so worth it in the end. The sense of satisfaction in getting it right is one of the greatest feelings in life.

And when things get real bad and I need some inspiration, I just listen to some sick Drum & Bass:



Burn 'Em Down!
 
Pressfield in his book says the stronger the resistance is that you feel, the closer you are towards the right thing. But to be honest right know I don't feel like this is true at all.
Let me present another perspective on the same "issue":



(here's the "full" 5 minute version: Full Version)


The TL;DR is: If you procrastinate a lot, it might point at the fact that you don't actually enjoy making music as much as you think you do.

I think when we once start to dream about being a musician, writing a score for a game or movie, or releasing an EP, or playing live one day, and then spend years making music, buying gear, practicing, it's emotionally very difficult to let go of those dreams.

Because so much time and money and sweat went into these things. And as with many creative hobbies and arts, it also becomes a part of the own identity. So giving it up might feel like giving up a part of oneself, and all the efforts were basically for nothing.

When you don't enjoy doing this stuff anymore, but stick with it because of the reasons above; and not because you really like it, it will lead to a cycle of regret and pain. You can't progress, but you can't leave either - you're stuck in an unhealthy situation. And that's energy-draining.

Everyone of us has bad days or periods with less motivation, and yes, sometimes pushing through will help to get back 'into the mood' and suddenly everything gains momentum. But I think if you really do suffer in the way described in your post, that might actually be an indicator to let go and find something else you really like to do instead.

Sometimes it can also help to just level down your goals and expectations. It must not mean letting go music forever. It might just mean write music for yourself, without any intentions of uploading it, gaining listeners or validation off it. Let alone making a career.

There's not that one way of doing music. Writing music for yourself and your joy is an entire different thing than trying to build a career. You maybe even don't enjoy to finish tracks. Maybe all you need is to do some 1-2 hour random jams then and when where you get pleasure from making cool loops and trying out some ideas - and that's it, that's all. By taking off all the pressure and being realistic about what you enjoy and what not.

The other way round, I think people could also fall in love with the idea of being a musician (or any other hard-to-acquire profession), without enjoying the process. It's easy to confuse enjoying the idea of having succeeded with actually doing the work.

The things you do should be aligned with what you enjoy and not with what you think you're supposed to enjoy, according to old dreams of how the present should've looked like.

Level it down or completely let go if you don't find any joy in any sort of making music anymore. I think the fear of starting over is normal after so much effort went into something.

On the other hand, you can still return to any even so small musical activity in the future if you start to actually miss it.
 
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Hello @Greyscale

Try the following, watch other musician's videos performing and making music with their gadgets in their studios. Or watching your favourite musicians's concerts, even of the past.

Try to re-ignite your interests when you where a kid. For me for example is Space and other stuff ..

Keep healthy by eating healthy and physical.

Start by choosing your favourite equipment, then prepare your desk and room as inspiring and clutter free as possible, your mind will benefit .

Create discipline in time management, so you use time wisely.
Time moves forward, and we have to move with it.
This way you keep busy.

One of the things that Monks in monasteries do, is to always keep going, and each day ends up full.
A sense of fulfilment that you have not wasted your time and precious day. So discipline is key.

Another dangerous thing to be careful about, The Computer.
Ask yourself, am I spending too much time on Facebook and all those social media?
How am I going to solve this?

TV also, be choosy what you want to watch and say to yourself, how this is going to benefit me?
Better still, take away from your sight the TV unit, unless there is something very useful to watch.
Same for the Internet modem, if it distracts you.

If you think about it, too much time scrolling social media, or going through TV channels, can leave you empty and wasted.

Internet connection, would you consider limiting it?

One last thing, Do you make music mainly on hardware or mainly on a computer?

If on hardware you have more advantage in cutting off many of the internet and computer based areas above mentioned. If not then it is something one needs to work on so to increase creativity again.

So now it's time to work on it :)

Brian
 
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Another dangerous thing to be careful about, The Computer.
Ask yourself, am I spending too much time on Facebook and all those social media?
How am I going to solve this?

TV also, be choosy what you want to watch and say to yourself, how this is going to benefit me?
Better still, take away from your sight the TV unit, unless there is something very useful to watch.
Same for the Internet modem, if it distracts you.

If you think about it, too much time scrolling social media, or going through TV channels, can leave you empty and wasted.

Internet connection, would you consider limiting it?

One last thing, Do you make music mainly on hardware or mainly on a computer?
Yeah this problem I kind of solved, I mean I am guilty in surfing the internet too much like everyone else here but as I said I got back into using pen and paper and a piano (away from the computer) so that I'm not get distracted and can focus on the task at hand. And since covid I limited my time on the internet and the stuff that I'm looking at for general mental health maintenance :thumbsup:
 
Ask yourself, are you having fun? Honestly if you don't enjoy something, why are you doing it? Are you in it for the fame, money, and the glory? Maybe it's time for a reality check.
that has been checked :grin: neither I do music because of money, because there is none anyway nor for the fame (f*** the fame) and I am already glorious (just kidding:rolleyes:). And you are 100% right when you say "But it's usually so worth it in the end" because I know that it is worth it, not just the outcome but the process in itself when I get it right. That's why quitting is not an option. And now I'm gonna listen to some sick Drum & Bass :cool:
Thanks
 
Is there a thread anywhere on VI Control specifically for any and all procrastinators and people struggling with writers' block, where people can get encouragement and no one's allowed to say anything negative about the struggling people's music? If not, I reckon we should start one! Or should we just continue here? Would love to hear your thoughts on that.
 
Hmm... Interesting thread, and a lot of good points by some diverse perspectives. That's a good thing.

I'm a reasonably music-obsessed human being and I've been very fortunate to make it my job and livelihood along with my passion. I've certainly had my ups and downs, both financially and psychologically, in pursuit of this weird thing, but it's definitely been worth it, and in the aggregate I've gotten happier the longer I've done it.

I will also be the first person to tell you that music is not the most important thing in the world. It's wonderful! Many things are wonderful, and many things are much more important. Life, health, nature, ecology, family, friends, the light of consciousness in the world. These are the things that really matter, and I find music much, much more enjoyable when I remember how important it's not in the grand scheme of things. It's optional! It's joyful, it's beautiful and creative and spiritual and connects us with each other, it energizes and excites me and I absolutely love the crap out of it and it's optional.

I also find that I take long breaks from writing. I make the vast majority of my income as a performing/recording musician and arranger, even though writing/composing is far and away the thing I care about the most. But it's pretty common for me to start writing something, a solid little idea, that doesn't get finished for five years or more. Moreover, if I were never to write anything ever again, that's ok. Counterintuitively, that mindset virtually guarantees that I'm gonna write more things. Humans are messy.

Anyway. That's just one more perspective on this whole thing, and I'm sure plenty of people won't relate to it, but many probably will, and I hope it's helpful to someone. :)
 
Is there a thread anywhere on VI Control specifically for any and all procrastinators and people struggling with writers' block, where people can get encouragement and no one's allowed to say anything negative about the struggling people's music? If not, I reckon we should start one! Or should we just continue here? Would love to hear your thoughts on that.
I wasn't even sure if I posted the thread in the right section. I know there are a few threads because the whole issue is coming up again and again for people. And I think it is a very helpful thing to have something like that, because I realized how narrow my thoughts went and now with the input of the people my perspective shifted at least a bit and got me out of the biggest rut. So it's not only about encouragement but about you getting different input from people that all know that problem.
I mean we have a lot of good stuff in that thread already so would be nice not to waste it :)
 
I know another longwinding post, but during the weekend I was thinking about the whole issue a lot and first I want to thank everyone of you for those helpful comments. If we spend too much time in our own head, we move around our own thoughts and stop thinking in different ways and directions. The problem is not solved over a few days but at least I have kind of a plan how to move forward because quitting is not an option, I love music and music making way too much even in frustrating and bad feeling moments like right now. Reading all your comments kicked me out of at least the worst rut so that I can sit down to try making stuff. So, thank you for that y’all.
You can skip the rest of the post if you have enough of my blabla :grin:

Only if you’re interested these are a few of my resolutions and my plan moving forward:

The first question I asked myself: Why music when I feel so damn terrible? Because music is the best damn thing in the world. It makes me happy when it works out, even if those moments are rare for me, when they hit, they give me something that nothing else can. That’s probably the reason why I always come back to music, I tried a lot of different creative things (photography, digital painting, even 3D/Blender stuff) everything was super fun and I got good results, but nothing gave me that “something” that making music gives me.

Second question: What are the main issues that come up again and again? Unnecessary pressure I put on myself. My lack of patience and perseverance (never really learned those virtues). I must accept that my skill level is not yet at a point where I am able to write the music that I want to write, that leads to frustration because I want to conquer a mountain that is yet too complicated for me (and of course I would never admit that). All of these can trigger “the judge” that yells into my ear “wrong”, “that sucks”, “it’s boring” etc. and they let me freeze and start procrastinating. There are probably a few other smaller things that play a role, like the typical fear of failure and so on, but they don’t seem to make up the big issue.

Third question: Why does it have to be traditional orchestral music at all, if other stuff seems to work? That boils down to my ego. I don’t really have a reason, I mean I love film music and also classical music, but it is just that inner urge to be able to write in that style. For me (and this is not a degradation of any other music genre I love a lot of them) but for me personally orchestral music is the pinnacle of music composition and there is an ambition in me that wants to tackle that skill. I know that sounds stupid and makes me look like an arrogant asshole but it’s just my honest thought and I would’ve never admitted that before. This point is I think the biggest I have to re-think. Is this ambition worth the “pain”? Can I endure that “pain” until I conquer that skill? I don’t know yet.

So, what am I going to do:

  • I stay with my pen and paper workflow. Seems the best option to avoid the inner judge to come up before being able to put down anything. Coming up with an idea, see where I can get it and only if I have enough ideas and a rough structure I am “allowed” to go into notation and then only with Noteperformer, because f***ing with the samples will kill all motivation for me. Noteperformer gives me enough feedback about my stuff. If I’m finished with the score I can then go into the DAW because then I have at least the full piece and everything from there is another problem-solving process in itself.
  • Sitting down learning the stuff I need to know (foremost orchestration) for the music I want to create. That means a lot of patience and a lot of practice and a lot of failing but with small steps I think it is doable.
  • Work on a piece step by step and in small increments. Don’t let yourself overwhelm, don’t run but walk and be patient with yourself and try at least to be kind 😊
  • Throw in some time for other/non orchestral music and don’t forget to have fun with it. Maybe I will try to learn to play clarinet.
So thank you again guys for all your help
Denise
 
Hello everybody,

so I got to a point today, where I really don't know anymore what to do, so I tought I could get some input
from you people :)

I know that most of us struggle with the same problem over time, some more some less.
Steven Pressfield in his book "The War of Art" calls it resistance, you can call it negative self talk I call it "the f*** devil" that little voice in our head that keeps talking to us as if we are a piece of shit not being able to accomplish anything.
I know that feeling very well for now nearly ten years, it was always a problem, but I feel right know I am on a point where I want to give up and say "OK you defeated me", but I know that would be wrong.

Music was always an important part of my life. I started with learning to play the drums in 2010 (later in life :)) just for fun
and the first time I sat behind the Kit of my teacher, I knew I will never do anything else in my life than music. I didn't know what that life in music would look like but I knew that this is it.
So end of 2011 I went for two years to a school for audio engineering.
There I discoverd the love of writing music, not just the technical recording stuff. So I wanted the film music stuff (what else:cool:) and even
when that was not what the school really taught, they were very kind and let me do kind of my thing and I had great teachers everything seemed to be perfect.
In 2013 I got my degree and had already kind of a vague idea how to go about it and a few days before the school officially ended my mom died and from that day on my whole life was thrown upside down and it never really got back into "normal state" because one shitty thing after the other came and so I never had time and energy to really focus on my music so I kind of put it on hold.
I always did a bit here and there, aquired a ton of sample libraries etc :whistling: took courses, read a lot of books. My technical skill of composition got better, but my actual skill was kind of left behind because I had no real goal, no "deadline" like in school etc.
So this was the time when the negative self talk started. I'm not good enough, it is not interesting enough etc. I think you know that game.
In those 10+ years I still learned a lot but not to a point were I think I should be musically speaking. It just gets harder and harder to sit down and write music because the resistance is getting stronger and stronger. Pressfield in his book says the stronger the resistance is that you feel, the closer you are towards the right thing. But to be honest right know I don't feel like this is true at all.

In my head I know exactly what I should do, but I just can't make myself do it, instead procrastination. Everything seems to be
better than sitting down and writing music. Even writing that post and asking for help is hard to do :notworthy:

So sorry for the longwinding text but I thought a bit of context would be good and I know that this is a topic thats kind of useless to talk about, because there is not really an answer, but I try it anyway :)
Do you have any suggestions? How do you deal with the problem? Has anyone really solved the problem? Was giving up on music ever a thing for you?
And for me it is not even about doing it professionally but even as a hobby, but even for a hobby I would like to be able to finish music.

Thanks for any help or suggestions
I hope my english is not too bad

Greeting Denise
Normally I would start off by saying something like “It’s the weirdest thing, I just stumbled upon this and had to reach out-blah, blah, blah-etc.” but (in a very small way) I understand the strangeness of the world, and I know it either brought me here for you to hear me, someone else to hear me, or for ME to hear myself… it’s a whole thing.

anyway, I can relate to most of what you said in a very “holy
$#!T, this sounds exactly like me” kind of way.

unfortunately I couldn’t tell you why, or what it is that drives me to… NOT drive me/do nothing. Just a lifetime’s worth of sadness, disappointments, whatever. And BTW, I’m so sorry for your loss! I honestly don’t know how it feels, or how badly you must hurt inside, but I’ve told my mother countless times that she better let me go first, because I know I won’t be able to handle it (I’m still grieving my cat I lost in 2013, and I promise you that’s not not me trying to be funny… I’m blubbering like a. idiot right now!)

anyway, I have the professional-crastination like nobodies business, and the same love of music where I thought I’d be doing something in that area, but nothing ever happened where I saw an opening towards something else. I tried forming a band for so long, it’s actually embarrassing to admit just how long… but about 15 years!
Even though I couldn’t tell you the first thing about chords, the technical aspects of guitar, or anything. I bought a guitar off a friend at 16, and messed around for a long time. I couldn’t ever play the songs I like, because they were too complicated, and it basically forced me to “write” my own.

But again, I don’t even know if you could call what I’m doing writing/composing/etc. because it’s really just power chords, and bunching my stubby little fingers up in ways they’ll allow without going too far!😂



All I can really say about giving up, is that I wouldn’t recommend it, as long as you still have some drive left in you.

But this is coming from someone who basically has, and there’s literally nothing here!

I get so exhausted and annoyed when people use fortune cookie slogans at you, yet they’ve never been in your shoes! Sometimes you just can’t “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” because you’re too broken, or lost, and had E-FOCKING-NUFF!!!
I basically fell into the worst depression because of certain health issues, everything that comes with, and i’ve been in the process of getting off opiate medication (15 years of taking them too), 2.5 years so far…

Seriously, don’t ever get sick, they take funds for these so-called benefits very easily, but when you actually need them… it’s been damn near 4 years living off practically nothing, I’m just very lucky to have someone who CLEARLY loves me, because who would stay for that long dealing with this?
But as I was saying, I haven’t touched my guitar in those 2.5 years, because it was very much linked to the times where I felt good enough to play, but I’ve been feeling a strong urge lately to pick it up again, so who knows? I would love to eventually play a few shows, maybe make an EP/Album,

but 1. I just turned 47, and age creeped up on me like a Mofo!

I swear I was 32 last week… that thing that old people used to say to us about time getting faster, I always thought it was some kind of weird joke to mess with us, but it literally just keeps getting faster!

Point being, I might not get to it, I don’t really wanna be on a stage at 60, and that’s not even to do with the perception of looking too old, I’ve felt like a broken down 80 year old since 20 something anyway!

and 2. what little i’ve messed around with logic pro, I would be a mess with recording… yet I keep time just fine playing with other people (BTW, I wasn’t even aware of this site, but like I was saying about the world being strange at the start, something said I should reach out, so I joined real quick, but when it asked what DAW do i use, I was like “WTF is a DAW?!” luckily I kinda did know!)
I really didn’t want this to be a “ME” rant, sorry if it turned out that way, I just wanted to get across that I get you not knowing what to do, I honestly don’t like this world very much, and have been begging to go for about 30 years, but I guess there’s a reason why I can’t (don’t ever try to check out early, you’ll just wake up as if it was a dream in a different world… just a theory of mine) and sorry it’s a novel, I can be quite the blabber mouth!
 
I worked in, taught and wrote books about Mental Health and Psychoanalysis for 30 years. As many have suggested already, there MAY be more to your situation than having a block about writing music.

I say 'may be', because a golden rule of analysis (that came from Sigmund Freud) is: 'the best interpretation is the one that the patient makes for themselves'. So, only you really know (or perhaps don't want to know) what's at the root of your 'resistance'. It's probably not just about music though.

I lost a very valuable drone 3 weeks ago. it was my 3rd lost drone in 5 years. I've spent about €6000 on lost drones. I posted about it on Facebook and a friend asked me if I felt embarrassed telling the world that I'd lost 3 drones (which I'm doing again now).

I said; you can't stop people having opinions. Some will think I'm stupid, some will think I've got too much money, some will think I should be embarrassed (like my friend) and some will feel sorry for me and try to help (several did).

The only opinion that matters - IS YOURS. Enjoy your music, enjoy playing it and if you don't like it, start again until you do. And when you do like it...make that the most important opinion.
 
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Welcome to the club. We ALL face your dilemma to a certain degree. For me, having a looming deadline for a project is what keeps me writing. Otherwise, not much happens other than noodling around and coming up with tons of unfinished pieces. I highly recommend enrolling in formal piano (or drum) lessons...not only will they make you accountable, but will ignite creativity (it did for me, anyways). You like drumming? Join a local band, even if it's just casual jamming. I play drums professionally, so I'm gigging nearly every weekend in one of several bands (I love it). It's also entirely possible that music was simply a nice distraction when you were going through those troubles times; and now your sub conscience no longer finds solace in it. In other words, maybe you don't love writing music as much as you thought.
 


I just pulled this up as it was relevant to another thread and I think also really on point for this thread.

Listen to what John Debney says a 2:45 onward.

Be kind to yourself, and the best you can be for what your natural gift, knowledge base and experience is. Don't compare with John Williams or Beethoven, other than as models to get better. Even somebody like Hans Zimmer, has a whole team of people to help him accomplish what he does. That is like climbing Mt. Everest. It is possible to get the that level, but understand the goal in relation to self--are they aligned?

thanks for sharing
 
Maybe the problem is that sometimes we humans want to do something in life which we don't really have the knack for?

Then no matter how helpful people are and how much advice we're given, we don't really get anywhere with the thing we're pursuing.

Whereas if we spent our time doing something which we DO have the knack for, we'd be much more happy with life :)
This, here is precisely what the 'old' statement in my signature gets at: "Hollywood tells us that we can be anything we want to be, but maybe not everyone is meant to be that. What if there is someone we are meant to be?" I don't remember exactly what it said, but its along those lines...

We can all try anything we want to do, but we may not end up actually being able to do it. There are things we are simply more natural at doing, and they differ from person to person. I do music as a hobby, after I graduated from Uni studying composing as a degree. And that is because I had such passion for composing, but knew I was always natural at engineering and technology. So in the end, IT is where I ended up placing my flag

While music is simply a passion, and fun hobby that I do, along with playing guitar in my Church Band for concerts and jamming with them outside of my career time.
As a result of taking the weight off myself to become some insane music creator, I can truly enjoy playing instruments, composing sometimes and making the odd music here and there. Even reading up on theory and learning little by little

We don't need to know everything about anything, just a little about some things. Then we can build on those brick by brick to grow in each arena :)
 
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