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Orchestration Recipes Discussion Thread

I’m launching this as an idea to share, as much as a product:





The collection itself will be available in November, but it’s almost not the point:

I want other composers to create their own recipes too, and then to make them available (independent of me or my website is fine!).

If the Orchestration Recipe concept seems useful, share the video, get other composers fired up about releasing their own collections, so we can all have them as desk references as we compose. (I'm serious...I want my shelves filled with these things, it would be a game changer for getting the most out of the sample libraries I already have).

Let me know what you think...who else would love to have hundreds of these to hand, from dozens of very different composers, in a concise, browsable format?


I....LOVE.....THIS!
 
Phillip

Fyi, the first link on your website "what is an orchestrationrecipe" is dead, at least for me, says removed by uploader.
 
I love it!
I want to have an additional category for quick snacks, like: "Tubular Bells with Glockenspiel an octave above and Piano an octave below, yummy!"


One caveat, however: While I think this is really useful and I'm approaching learning orchestration this way at the moment, I think one should now that good orchestration is not just the application of good recipes. It is ALSO that, but there's also the aspect of thinking first principles. Understanding why certain instrument doublings sound nice to our ears, why other don't etc.

I think what Jim Keller says in this clip can be applied to orchestration (or composing in general) quite nicely:


I should add that I'm pretty much a beginner when it comes to orchestration, but I think what I say makes sense :)
 
This is really cool! Even if it's not something I "need," I'm always happy to hand over a little money for someone taking a good base idea and evolving it further than others have. Looking forward to it!
 
Love this. Love the video as well - especially the first part, should be required viewing for Vi-C members.

Also, I hope you continue to release these volumes - not sure others would be able to do it as well or as detailed as you seem to have done. Maybe even recipe books based on certain composer's styles (John Williams recipes, Beethoven recipes, etc).
 
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Great idea ! It's an excellent way of learning orchestration.
Recipes for theme development would also be useful to me.
 
Brilliant - count me as a customer! Other styles of music have recipes, in fact, some are quite rigid and extremely specific, so why not orchestral/classical/cinematic music.

Recently (last 1-2 years), I've noticed there are some really great tools becoming available that are aimed at streamlining and assisting the composition/orchestration process in the digital realm. This is one of the more well-thought-out and presented approaches. Bravo!
 
if you want to approach this with the rigor of a Hollywood orchestrator, I think you need to think about articulations, as you've done, but also about 2 concepts that seriously affect sound: dynamics and register. This is especially important for woodwinds that sound different in different registers, and the registers affect what dynamics they can play.

I'll throw this in here for you. Happy to see you use it however you like. In your chef metaphor, think of this chart as a reduced sauce... it is based on numerous interviews with members of the Seattle Symphony, musicians online, and condensing down the same concepts tackled in various orchestration books. There is not always agreement among authors which is why these are more "crossfades" than perfectly segmented registers.

NoamWoodwindChart.png
Looks like the Spectratone Chart. Are combinations (close, complementary) of timbre represented for other sections and instrument combinations? Cello and Bassoons for example?
 
Looks like the Spectratone Chart. Are combinations (close, complementary) of timbre represented for other sections and instrument combinations? Cello and Bassoons for example?

ah, to clarify, the colors are just arbitrary, they don't really mean compatible ranges for blending. The chart is only about how the timbre of each instrument changes in different parts of its register, it doesn't give advice for combinations.

And yes, other authors have done stuff like this, and some instruments like the clarinet have very sharply defined registers because the instrument works in different ways on the higher and lower register.
 
ah, to clarify, the colors are just arbitrary, they don't really mean compatible ranges for blending. The chart is only about how the timbre of each instrument changes in different parts of its register, it doesn't give advice for combinations.

And yes, other authors have done stuff like this, and some instruments like the clarinet have very sharply defined registers because the instrument works in different ways on the higher and lower register.
Noam do you have this chart for the a full orchestra? This could be quite useful.
 
I am thrilled by this and I agree with everyone it is a fantastic idea. Can I make a further suggestion that "recipes" can be grouped or sequenced together to make up a full "menu" for the diners.
What I mean here is for example Recipe 61A "Slow Intro" > transitions to Recipe 33D "Sweet Strings" > transitions to Recipe 64B "Full On Tutti Finale"
 
Let me know what you think...who else would love to have hundreds of these to hand, from dozens of very different composers, in a concise, browsable format?

First of all, those who know me a bit longer in this forum know my opinion about shortcuts in learning, so i will restrain myself a bit. (of course not without repeating once more that beyond the very basics instrumentation is much more about the ability to write appropriate textures for the respective function of the specific instruments). – i also think that the outcome of your project may be helpful/inspirational for some.

However, i think it's necessary to point out, that your very first example – The Esterházy – is a bit flawed without further additions.
The problem lies within the instrument of the Oboe.
Nowadays, almost every orchestra outside of Vienna uses the french oboe, while the music of the Viennese classic used the Viennese oboe.
To people with some sensible ears the difference between those instruments is quite big.
The french (or "usual") oboe has a much stronger formant in the sensible "a" area and therefore cuts extremely well through an arrangement.
On the downside, the sound of the oboe gets fatiguing quite soon.
(if you check scores by good orchestrators you will see that they all pay attention to this. Or the other way round: you can often spot the not-so-good orchestrator by the overuse of the oboe).

Now, the composers of the viennese classic very clearly had the sound of the viennese oboe in mind, which is much more decent in context. If you're familiar with that sound you will understand that this typical instrumentation does indeed not rely on the "oboe" but on the "viennese oboe".

Finally, since you're aiming at composers with virtual instruments, let me add that there is in fact a viennese oboe available as a sampled instrument.
It's part of the fantastic VSL woodwinds.

Besides that, i wish you a lot of success with your upcoming channel!
 
By far the biggest new market for sample producers is the recreational composer who creates and learns for the joy of it. imo
 
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By far the biggest new market for sample producers is the recreational composer who creates and learns for the joy of it.

Is this true?


Oh... never mind.

EDIT: With that said, I spend way more as a hobbyist now than when I was working, because I'm no longer tying my purchasing decisions to whether or not I can use them in a project. My needs were pretty limited (as are my skills), and I spent a lot of time wading in stale water as a result. Now, I'm like the grandparent who has a piano in their house because they like to force the family to gather around and sing songs together during the holidays. I won't make money off of it, but it brings me joy.
 
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One man's "shortcuts in" is another man's "adjunct to" ;)

Of course.
If you had read past the first sentence of my post, you also would have seen the following sentence:

"– i also think that the outcome of your project may be helpful/inspirational for some."

;)


p.s. however, my post was about the difference between the "normal" french oboe and the viennese one and why it could matter if one tries to imitate the instrumentation of the viennese classic.
(i know, reading a long post isn't attractive... ;) )
 
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