HCMarkus
TL;DR
Try cranking those pre-loads down as low as they go and see what your RAM demand is then... you may find you don't need as much as you think you do.
Intel Macs - ticking time bomb?
- Thread starter wayne_rowley
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wayne_rowley
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I could build one, I’ve done so before, but I’d more likely spend a little more get a DAW PC from Scan in the UK. That way it’s someone else’s problem to ensure the components are quiet, optimised and compatible, plus it comes with a 3 year warranty.
But there is a time vs. money factor for me, mainly around switching DAWs. Both the time to learn the DAWs and then the time to convert and migrate my Logic projects. As I said, it’s not something I really want to do.
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wayne_rowley
Active Member
That is where my Mini came from. And my MacBook Pro before that. Not sure about the US but in the UK the savings from new, while welcome, aren’t spectacular.
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wayne_rowley
Active Member
It’s speculation, but it I fear the time will be less than we hope.
The last Mac Pro 2013s were still being made and sold in 2019 before the 7,1 replaced it. The last Mac OS officially supported for them though is Monterey, released in 2021 - 2 years later.
The 7,1 was replaced last year, so I’d expect it to be supported in OS upgrades until 2025, but no longer. Then you e got a couple of years of security patches at the most.
I’m expecting other Intel Macs, such as my Mini to be dropped from Mac OS when the new version comes out this year.
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wayne_rowley
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I’m not saying it won’t happen… but it won’t happen.But if anyone wants to switch to Windows, just ask yourself how long it will take until Windows will also run mainly on ARM
Thrilling times.
Apple owns the ecosystem end to end. Hardware and software. What they say goes.
Who owns the PC ecosystem? It’s not Microsoft. It’s not Intel, or AMD. Who decides what CPU architectures the compilers support? Who decides how motherboards are designed? Not one company can dictate to the others, right folks, we’re switching from x86 to ARM and you all have to follow. It’s just not that simple.
Yes, we will get ARM PCs and laptops, but I suspect they will heavily rely on an x86 to ARM conversion layer, similar to Rosetta.
Wayne
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Al Maurice
Active Member
What you need to ask yourself, is it likely I'm going to need to upgrade my setup in the future. If the answer is no then any Mac that suits your spec and budget will work. On the other hand, now Macs are essentially just sealed boxes, then you'll have not much choice and consider the PC route.
Either you save over the longer term on the computer or on the DAW.
It's always worth knowing another DAW in any case, and in reality Logic, Cubase or DP there's no longer much between them. Just a different UI.
The case is different if you're a pro, as you can probably be able to justify the cost of moving to Apple Silicon. If you're not that's much harder to do in the present climate.
It's not like your machine will stop working, you can continue to use it, you'll just lose support and updates for Logic. So that's something to consider if you'd rather wait.
Either you save over the longer term on the computer or on the DAW.
It's always worth knowing another DAW in any case, and in reality Logic, Cubase or DP there's no longer much between them. Just a different UI.
The case is different if you're a pro, as you can probably be able to justify the cost of moving to Apple Silicon. If you're not that's much harder to do in the present climate.
It's not like your machine will stop working, you can continue to use it, you'll just lose support and updates for Logic. So that's something to consider if you'd rather wait.
Aymara
Active Member
I fear, you are wrong ... let me explain why:
First of all MS ist selling also hardware now ... one keyword is "Surface". Regarding IT Press they are working together with Qualcomm to develop a new Surface Laptop based on ARM, that is planned to have better performance, than Apple's M3. And Windows 11 ARM already is able to run old Intel software too ... similar to Apple Silicon, which is also backward compatible.
Once this new Surface is on the market other vendors like Lenovo will follow.
Second, both Google and Microsoft already offer ARM-based services in Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud, which was also reported in IT Press lately.
Third, even ARM based servers already exist in several data centers world wide, because they are extremely powerful and have less electrical power consumption ... and need less air conditioning in the data center. So they are also more cost effective.
IMO, the future trend is already clear ... "x86/x64" will definitely die in a few years, even in the Windows world.
Aymara
Active Member
Leave the perspective of an end user ... you need to see the enterprise perspective!
Nearly all huge hardware vendors already develop ARM based as it seems. That's why we already have ARM servers in data centers ... not many so far, but the future trend is given, IMO.
And that already works nicely. I even tested Affinity Photo 1 ... Intel version from 2016 on Windows 11 ARM ... works like a charm, though a bit slower as a native version.
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wayne_rowley
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I’m an IT pro myself. In fact my first ARM computer was an Acorn Archimedes A3000 back in 1990 ish.
ARM servers are not new. Servers are a different market to home PCs, and they’re nearly all running containers or virtual machines of some kind anyway.
But a wholesale move from x86 to ARM in home, or even business PCs will never be as quick or clean as Apple’s, for the reasons I’ve already given. If it happens at all it could take the best part of 10 years, perhaps even longer.
Aymara
Active Member
No, it will happen much faster and the keyword is costs.
Right now all developers, video editors and others who need powerful desktops or laptops are tired of loud machines that they can only stand by wearing headphones. More and more people ask their bosses for an Apple Silicon machine for exactly this reason. I saw that more than once
And as soon as Windows machines will be available, that are as powerful and silent as Apple Silicon, IT departments will prefer them over Macs, because they can more easily be integrated in enterprise environments like Active Directory.
And then it's just a matter of (a short) time, until ARM based Office PCs and laptops are cheaper than Intel pendants. And here we need to take into account the total cost of ownership, which includes the costs of electrical power.
Time will tell, if I'm wrong
Aymara
Active Member
But back to Intel Macs:
The last ones were released in 2020, right? So they will be supported until 2026 (6 years from release) and the first Apple-Silicon-only macOS can be expected for 2026.
So I guess 2025 will be year where the last Intel-compatible macOS will be released and it will also be the year (end of 2025 / early 2026), where Open Core Legacy Patcher will no longer be updated. Right?
But let's check this article, which discusses also, if Intel-support will end after macOS 15 or macOS 16:
arstechnica.com
The last ones were released in 2020, right? So they will be supported until 2026 (6 years from release) and the first Apple-Silicon-only macOS can be expected for 2026.
So I guess 2025 will be year where the last Intel-compatible macOS will be released and it will also be the year (end of 2025 / early 2026), where Open Core Legacy Patcher will no longer be updated. Right?
But let's check this article, which discusses also, if Intel-support will end after macOS 15 or macOS 16:
How long will the last Intel Macs be supported? macOS Sonoma gives us some hints
Nearly 20 years of data show how Intel Macs are faring as Apple switches chips.
arstechnica.com
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Al Maurice
Active Member
Sure there's a trend towards Macs, and sure Mac made a wholesale move to ARM. In fact like @wayne_rowley, I too had an Arm desktop machine. We did some benchmarking for a TV production, and it proved to be the fastest machine on the planet then.No, it will happen much faster and the keyword is costs.
Right now all developers, video editors and others who need powerful desktops or laptops are tired of loud machines that they can only stand by wearing headphones. More and more people ask their bosses for an Apple Silicon machine for exactly this reason. I saw that more than once
But Apple has tinkered with ARM before, and was a shareholder of ARM Ltd too. And then they quickly became tired of it, like they did with PowerPC (when they collaborated with IBM). Latterly Intel too.
So for Apple there is no platform tech future.
Thus we are better with a stable platform that moves forward and not sideways, and doesn't leave all their loyal users perplexed and massively out of pocket.
The cool thing about those older PC Apple platforms, is that they can be repurposed, and as it's Intel inside may even be able to run Win 11. That way the OP won't need to make a massive outlay. Then he can regain his support and keep his platform going for sometime too if he prefers. As Win 11 is just Win 10 with a bunch of newer APIs.
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wayne_rowley
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Define support. Applecare, hardware repairs?
Probably.
But software compatibility?
As I said in a previous post, the last Mac Pro 6,1 machines were made in 2019, and were being sold beyond this, even after 7,1s were released.
The last Mac OS that supports them is Monterey, released 2 years later.
The latest version of Logic needs Ventura or greater.
That’s the issue.
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wayne_rowley
Active Member
Yes, I remember that the performance and the experience of RISC OS far outstripped home PCs of the day. The talk was that these superior machines would replace x86.
It never happened.
And 35 years later the PC market is still dominated by x86!
I’m not saying it can’t happen. But it cannot be as clean or as quick as with Apple who control the entire platform.
Wayne
Aymara
Active Member
I also asked myself, if they might sooner or later go back to Intel, but they invested too much in Apple Silicon.
But we will see ... Intel need to work on better CPUs, that are much more energy efficient. And they don't have much time, IMO.
I'm sceptical, because Bootcamp only support Win10, not Win11.
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Aymara
Active Member
Support for a new macOS, is what I meant. The support for my iMac Pro seams to end this year, which means, it won't get macOS 15 (without OCLP).
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wayne_rowley
Active Member
Which is precisely my point.
If you bought your iMac Pro in 2017 when it was released you’d have a long happy 7 years of supported OS and software releases.
But if you bought it in 2021…
Aymara
Active Member
I bought it in 2018 and will need it until end of 2025, so I'm fine with it, because I'll update to Sonoma soon and it will get definitely security updates until end of 2025.
We will see, if it makes sense to use OCLP on this machine.
pegotico
Member
Well, that is simply an opinion.... which i respect. For Apple this whole process has taken some time, and they have less users worldwide compared to pc. If that were to happen, pretty sure it's going to take more than a "few years".
Aymara
Active Member
Maybe 5 years, who knows. But maybe it'll never happen, if Intel develops new CPUs fast enough, that are competitive regarding the right performance / power consumption mix.
Time will tell.
