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How's Dorico Now?

Vik said:
Well, some stuff can be on some company's to do list for many years, and MIDI recording has been mentioned as something the intend to do for a long time already. But if it's high up on their list, that's very good.
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i agree but should be number one on the list from the beginning, the team from sebilius odd they didnt pay attention to this feature
 
I stopped at Sibelius 6.2, as I'm too old to learn The Ribbon. For playback I prepare a second score with shortened note-lengths at phrase-ends, and sometimes even insert mesures containing only a 1/32nd rest between phrases. This gives a noticeable improvement in realism.

I'm looking forward to Dorico's midi controls, and piano-roll adjustments which won't affect the written score.
 
Just to chime in, after making the mistake of Buying Dorico a week ago (my fault entirely, didn't try the demo), I have to say I'm extremely disappointed with this piece of software. So MIDI implementation is in its infancy, fine I get it, it takes time to develop that and it's primarily a notation program... False! Considering this is version 2 already, they've made the weirdest priority list that I can think of. You have rare articulations like bowing behind the bridge, but you don't have a simple articulation like a fall or a bend? How many people out there are writing 19th century classical music or avant-garde contemporary pieces versus people writing for film, television, jazz, funk bands, pop, etc?

So far my list with the frustration goes like this:

1.- You need to enable Aero, what??? That horrible microsoft theme that makes everything white and irritates your eyes after 8 hours of work? Fine, I can adjust.

2.- No scoops, falls, bends that are part of 50% of the paid work I do, fine! I'm sure it'll come around at some point, but considering it's the Sibelius team we might need till version 6 again.

3.- Hmmm... Can't swing either... Fine, if I can't add modern articulations might as well do the whole thing in another program.

4.- OK, maybe I'll try orchestrating the Trumpet concerto I've been commissioned to write. Hmmm... No thundersheet, that's odd, very common percussion instrument. Fine, watch a few youtube videos (as no proper manual yet) try to create it, crash!!! Three days on the Forum with the staff trying to solve it.

5.- OK, in the meanwhile I'll configure Dorico to work with the VE Pro project. Hmmm... Cannot go beyond 16 channels, that's odd. Fine, I'll just use VE Event input. Hmmm... Why is it misbehaving now, getting all sorts of clicks and pops... Ooops crash! Another two days on the forum, turns out my Taskbar replacement is interfering, fine I can live without it.

6.- Oh! It turns out my folder-restore-session app is also interfering. Hmmm... Odd, I've had these two programs for ten years and have never affected anything. In fact I've never had a crash or any type of problems with this machine. Fine, I'll adjust... Sigh!

7.- OK everything's configured, let's run the trumpet which is the only thing written in at the moment. Hmmm... Plays only a few notes. Ah! The expression map says natural instead of normal which is what Dorico prefers. Fine, change 10 Expression Maps to include the articulation "normal"... Sigh!

8.- Hmmm... Trill is not playing back. Check forum, trill playback is not supported. But I'm using a keyswitch for it, Dorico doesn't need to play it, just activate the bloody keyswitch... Starting to get annoyed.

9.- Hmmm... Can't edit velocities, not yet supported.... Annoyed!

10.- Try to add symbols instead for scoops, accordion symbols, etc. Not yet supported, but you can manually move them in Engraving mode, seriously??? In the 21st century??? Over a thousand bars on 24 instruments and I have to do it manually? Now irritated...!

So in conclusion, can't do notation, can't do playback so it's missing features on BOTH sides of things...! I mean seriously, I couldn't sympathise more with the term "insulting", because the price tag does imply that at least it should do notation on a professional level, at least in part better than say a FREE notation program like Musescore. So now I'm stuck with a reconfigured computer, that worked fabulously for ten years, Aero plays havoc with everything constantly doing something in the background, had to disable all my useful worflow programs and wasted a week trying to get this thing to work on basic music, not even some avant-garde piece full of graphics or what not...​
 
Dorico has the potential to be a spectacular program. I haven't purchased Dorico yet because I don't want to pay to be a beta tester, and I am not purchasing any software that doesn't have the feature set necessary for my work which Finale and Sibelius already have. I let others live on the bleeding edge. I make my living in a part of the music industry with very high expectations, so the tool has to work. I can't work with a tool that doesn't do what I need.

For now Dorico is a work in progress, which is acceptable. Development takes time. I'm not interested in funding software development without being able to partake in the profits. That's what I would be doing if I invested in Dorico at this point.

However, I am watching development. If/when it gets to the point where it is a serious competitor to Finale and Sibelius, you can bet I'll be jumping on board. We have yet to reach that point.
 
Let me add my voice to those that find - in this day and age - the lack of real-time Midi recording (ok, not insulting but seriously) frustrating . I also bought Dorico from day 1 to support Daniel Spreadbury 's team. I hope it gets implemented soon
 
I recently purchased Dorico and I do think it will be quite something in 5 years from now. I also think it’s still behind the curve for now and I can understand why practically minded pros would wait and see. I chose to get on the train partly to support the Dorico team and partly because I am genuinely interested to see the typesetting results it produces and play along with the development process. I am not the kind of musician that wants to sit around tweaking finale all day long to look right. I am excited about the niche Dorico aims to fill which will NOT be just another finale/Sibelius/musescore replacement but rather a new concept and I am looking forward to see where they go with it. It’s worth it to me to get in now even though over the next five years I will probably spend a few hundred more in upgrade fees.
 
JJP said:
Dorico has the potential to be a spectacular program. I haven't purchased Dorico yet because I don't want to pay to be a beta tester, and I am not purchasing any software that doesn't have the feature set necessary for my work which Finale and Sibelius already have. I let others live on the bleeding edge. I make my living in a part of the music industry with very high expectations, so the tool has to work. I can't work with a tool that doesn't do what I need.

For now Dorico is a work in progress, which is acceptable. Development takes time. I'm not interested in funding software development without being able to partake in the profits. That's what I would be doing if I invested in Dorico at this point.

However, I am watching development. If/when it gets to the point where it is a serious competitor to Finale and Sibelius, you can bet I'll be jumping on board. We have yet to reach that point.
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Hear, hear...! As I said, it is entirely my fault for not checking out properly and that's exactly how I feel now i.e. like I've paid to be a beta-tester.

The problem of course is that more and more I get requested to produce a playback with the scores these days. For years and years I have composed/arranged in Sibelius then dump the MIDI into Cubase and spend ages cleaning up the Keyswitches and then humanising the performance. This procedure works, but it's very time consuming. The problem came when trying to write the orchestration for the aforementioned concerto, every time I changed a percussion instrument (same player/staff), Sibelius would default to the bloody snare. Another problem is that Sibelius is not always consistent with its Keyswitches and that can be very annoying (e.g. when it's just one of 22 strings that's playing pizz when the other are in Legato). So when I saw that Dorico had implemented MIDI CC editor I jumped on the boat without realising they had neglected higher priorities... Live and learn...
 
I bought 1.0 knowing updates would come. Tools like those are good to be in early because of the complexity... and I definitely love their approach, I also saw potential.
However was disappointed (or rather limited) very quickly and had to get Sibelius to actually get work done.

THEN, Dorico 2.0 came out and I had to pay $99 for it... that was a big downer.
I’ll wait for a few more releases before paying for upgrade.
 
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antonyb said:
I bought 1.0 knowing updates would come. Tools like those are good to be in early because of the complexity... and I definitely love their approach, I also saw potential.
However was disappointed very quickly and had to get Sibelius to actually get work done.

THEN, Dorico 2.0 came out and I had to pay $99 for it... that was a big downer.
I’ll wait for a few more releases before paying for upgrade.
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Yep, I bought the original and now they want $100 more for an upgrade. For those who paid $500+ for the original quite unfinished product, it's pretty presumptuous to ask the early investors who took a chance to fork out another $100 for a v1.2 to v2.0 upgrade. No thanks - my last Cubase upgrade was 1/2 that.
 
In September, I can probably ask for the educational crossgrade.
If I no longer qualify a year or two later, will I have to make up the standard crossgrade price?
 
While all the complaints are true, it is still the most promising development in music notation software in a very, very long time. I WANT Daniel and team to succeed in their vision. It is a big one, and clearly not easy. They are making solid progress, however, and i'm happy to be along for the journey. The parts that are working, I find to be a signifiant improvement over Sibelius.
 
Nathanael Iversen said:
I WANT Daniel and team to succeed in their vision.
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I think their vision is to make the perfect app for engravers, and with the best looking results. I honestly wish they would have a broader vision than they seem to have, both in term
MrCambiata said:
There are some things I like better in Sibelius: some things require less clicks. For example, for adding a third over a melody you only have to press 3 in Sibelius. In Dorico you have to press Shift+I, then 3, then Enter.
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This is, btw, a good example of an area where I simply disagree with Steinberg's 'vision'.
But of course I also hope they succeed in their vision; I'm even impressed that Yamaha/Steinberg allow the team develop Dorico ignoring so many important wishes from certain user groups for so long time. I'm surprised they actually can afford to do that (in terms of reduced sales), but I guess many developer teams would like to have the freedom the Dorico team has.
 
While I agree that they are making an app that does a great job with engraving, their vision is clearly far more reaching. They want to make a notation program that can use VST's, and have piano roll/CC type editing. This is the combination that so many of us have wanted for a very long time. Not a DAW that can "kind-of-notate", but a notation first program that can access sample libraries and articulations.

Yamaha can easily afford a dozen people working in London for many, many years. Steinberg knows software development costs. And they are not "ignoring" anyone. It takes 3-5 years to build fully featured, professional grade software in a mature industry. Many things have dependencies. As I look at their progress it is easy to see the framework they are building. Any of us can disagree about the order in which they are adding things to the framework, but I can see the logic.

The story of Dorico will be "gradually, and then suddenly". I don't know where that tipping point is. Right now, they are gradually adding features to a very solid core platform. At some future point, they will quietly pass the point of having "most things that most people need", and they will "suddenly" be a very desirable product.

What seems certain to me is that the slope of the line marking their progress is definitely "up and to the right". If they keep going, good things will happen.

Not everyone is an early adopter of software. And things take "as long as they take". This is fine. But having been around a lot of software development, I think they are making excellent progress for their team size, and I like that they are keeping standards high. Notice that the complaints are mostly around what has not been delivered yet. What has been delivered is excellent and well-thought out.
 
Nathanael Iversen said:
Any of us can disagree about the order in which they are adding things to the framework, but I can see the logic.

The story of Dorico will be "gradually, and then suddenly".
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Thanks for your reply. Yes, in some areas the above will be true. But regarding the example @MrCambiata brought, i don't think there will be a solution even for those of us who want key command equivalent for all relevant functions.

I discussed this with a Steinberg rep over at their forum a while ago, and he both said that they don't have any plans to introduce key commands for adding intervals above below, and that Dorico's way of working is to use popovers.

To refer to that example again, an argument against using 3 to add a third is that that key command already is used for changing durations. But if the KCs for changing durations could be user assignable as well, that wouldn't be a problem. Besides, one could use eg Control-3, Shift-3 etc for various commands related to the number 3.

But more user freedom isn't among the things that will show up gradually or suddenly in that area. I don't know if this is true for other stuff I miss in Dorico, like more contextual menus everywhere, optional popup/help info everywhere, or mouse control for those who want to use the mouse more (eg if they don't use Dorico regularly because they compose in a DAW, and there for haven't memorised Dorico's key commands or popover commands).

But at least Steinberg is open about more key command control in the above mentioned area not being on their list at all.

OTOH, maybe a built in macro solution could take care of all that - or already does that? This way, users could use "3" as a shortcut for Shift+I, 3 and Return.
 
Yes, keyboard equivalency is likely low on the list. I would imagine it will come well after their UI team makes whatever improvements they believe are better than their last work. Whether they are improvements or not will be seen.

Apple had a bit of this when they went to Final Cut X. A lot of the UI changed and many were unhappy. In the end, some switched to Adobe Premier (I did, as i also switched to PC), but after the shouting died down, many admitted that the new ways were often better.

UI is hard. Human habits run deep - particularly when most people have decade-long muscle memory from Sibelius (me) or Finale (many others). I suspect that they will ultimately be forced by the market to add some kind of layer or full assignability, but as you say, that may take some time.
 
I'm on board as a 'beta-tester'. Using it now and then just to see how things are. Input a cue from a score but literally had to stop as Dorico has no way of doing harp glisses or pedals.

Many years ago the Sibelius team asked for suggestions and I wrote that I would like to see instrument cues as small windows into the other parts. Glad they went with that idea here :)
 
I just don't understand this.
They release Version 1 and everyone howled because it wasn't remotely ready.

And then they release Version 2 with a clear opportunity to make good... and everyone is (justifiably) howling again because it's...not really ready.

Why are people who are paying so much money being made to be beta-testers? They release things too early. Once was forgivable, twice is not. I'm sorry but I'm in the "insulting" camp.

But the history of Notation Software is a bit bonkers. I paid just shy of £500 for Sibelius version 3. It never really worked on Mac at all, just crashed all the time. A total mess and the most expensive software I have ever bought. Those two brothers became millionaires I believe!

I use Notion 6 now and it cost £50 and I love it. (not for engraving though!).
 
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