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Help me choose, or I will die

The ONE Solo Strings library?

  • Cinematic Studio Solo Strings

    Votes: 50 37.0%
  • Spitfire Solo Strings

    Votes: 25 18.5%
  • Berlin EXP D Soloists

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • CineSamples CineStrings Solo

    Votes: 9 6.7%
  • 8Dio Deep Solo Strings

    Votes: 8 5.9%
  • Other (I'm all ears)

    Votes: 41 30.4%

  • Total voters
    135
Emotional Violin/Cello/Viola are somewhere in the middle (though also very, very dry). You don't get great control over dynamics or vibrato, but you have a *lot* of idiomatic performances available. Crafting lines with EV and all the key switches is fun, and an education in idiomatic violin performance in itself. "Idiomatic lego" is how I think of it. But I think that all the crossfading and whatever else it requires comes at a cost to the sonority. Or at least in requiring it to be recorded bone dry. Which is ok for a virtuosic soloist, but I'm not sure how it would translate to an quartet.
This is why I find them to be overall the most useful solo strings libraries out there.
There is an articulation for everything you could possibly need and it's all recorded as it is supposed to be. All the life in these instruments you hear is real because it was recorded to be that way....and yet you can still make arrangements that sound like your own out of them.

As for those who think they sound synthy, I'm not sure how recordings of real string instruments sound synthy. That's a good trick if you can do it.

ism, where do you find issues in crossfading? I find crossfading to be gentle in these libraries and pretty straightforward. I don't hear obvious phasing issues or 'jumps' in the timber at all. Then again, I find that it sounds better to shut off the default verb and add my own.
 
I'd also seriously look into hiring real musicians (seriously - ping someone like Nicolaj , I think he still does this sort of recording @thesteelydane )
Thanks for the mention, but I have closed my string recordings business. I'm not actually playing much these days, focused on building a career as a composer, and if I do open it back up it will only be for viola recordings.
 
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Wow, this has blown up into quite the thread. Haven't read it all, but I'll just say +1 for the Emotional series. It works very well, especially if you have articulation management. Here's a string quartet excerpt I mocked up using Emotional Violin, JB Violin, Fischer Viola and Emotional Cello. Don't have the Emotional Viola yet but intend to get it.

 
This is why I find them to be overall the most useful solo strings libraries out there.
There is an articulation for everything you could possibly need and it's all recorded as it is supposed to be.
It sounds like in the Emotion series you've found your spiritual solo string home :) Which is cool, I look forward to hearing more of your compositions with it.

But if they have an articulation for everything that you'd ever want, they really don't have every articulation for everything *I'd* ever want. I mean, it's awesome the expressive space the that "idiomatic lego" opens up, and there's no other sampled library that overlaps this expressive space. But it's still a pretty tiny expressive space in the grand scheme of things.

And as ever, in achieving the expressiveness in the dimensions it does, you loose expressiveness in others. Most of the articulations are recorded at a single dynamic layer, for instance. Which is a deal breaker for various types of musicality.

As for those who think they sound synthy, I'm not sure how recordings of real string instruments sound synthy. That's a good trick if you can do it.
I'm not sure anyone's ever said it sounds synthy, exactly. But it's recorded so utterly bone dry, that it can sound very ... flat.

There's no sense of spatiality, no intimacy of feeling your in the same space of the performer. And you just don't have this spatial information captured in the samples in the way you have in the SF or OT tree mics.

In that the human mind is capable of extraordinarily interpretation of spatialization information encoded in stereo sound streams, imo, there's simply no way to simulate it with reverb. This is particular acute in the case of a quartet, the interacting of spatiality in of the different instruments can really add to this intimate of spatial embodiment.

For something as dry as the EV, you have to add your own early reflections, and panning. And this can sound very, very nice - but is very stylized. This an totally work - wspecially if you have a soloist that needs to stand out rather than integrate into an ensemble, in which case sometimes I don't mind the dryness.

But it can also be very flat - maybe even synthy, at least in some sense - compared to a wet recording in a real space.

But also - real strings played un-idiomatically can easily sound synthy. Spitfire Solo Strings, even though I think the capture an sublimely beautiful sonority, unequaled anywhere, I can easily make them sound static synthy, and in general utterly horrible by any number of techniques in un-idiomatic plonking.


ism, where do you find issues in crossfading? I find crossfading to be gentle in these libraries and pretty straightforward. I don't hear obvious phasing issues or 'jumps' in the timber at all. Then again, I find that it sounds better to shut off the default verb and add my own.


Well, part of the nature of the "idiomatic lego" in the EV design is that there's lots and lots of crossfading (very possibly this is why it had to recorded dry). And it's not always going to work, nor should you expect every possible keyswitch from one particular articultion to another to work at every point in every kind of idiomatic phrase. The is a library to be embraced for its performability, and not plonkability. And it's a fun library to craft idiomatic performances on, and a horribly library to plonk away at expecting idiomatic performance to fall into your lap. (Performability + performance = happens ; Performability + plonking = misery)

That said, in general, I think the crossfade is really well done.

My issue in the crossfade patches is more that a) most of the articulations are recorded at a single dynamic layer anyway, and b) I just don't really love the cross fade patches. Not because they phasey. I just don't think they're a particular focus of the library. And they don't compare remotely to the kind of dynamics that SsS, for instance, is capable of.

But this really isn't a criticism of the library, just a consequence of the design choices that deliver one set of (amazing) sweet spots, at the expense of others.
 
A little example no-one asked for haha! But here is the Joshua Bell Violin mixed with the Chris Hein Cello. This is an absolute improvisation, not written, and just performed live with no editing so it may be a little sloppy...but I was feeling wild. Just experimenting with the Pizz, and short sustain with Chris Hein and the JB keyswitches to show off how they compliment each other, support and blend with each other, and each have their own 'BITE'.

Now as first chair, kinda chordal stuff, this isn't the best example, but I think for a quartet vibe these two really really sound good together and you can make some very nice old school sounding stuff...

I'm still new in the library game/composition but I really favor these two sounds.

Cheers
 

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CSSS all the way. The tone is unmatched. The only thing that needs a bit tweaking is the legato speed but other than that, CSSS is the best there is right now. *Optional* If you can throw JB Violin on top of that it's pure magic.
 
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Please show a bit of compassion for the life of a fellow VI user.
Please heed the advice of members like reutunes who have been here 8+ years longer than you.

Yes, it's a clever title, but how is anyone supposed to know what your thread is about without opening it? Is your goal to entice everyone to open your thread whether or not they may be interested in string libraries?

If you're benefiting from the help you're receiving here on VI-Control, please consider returning the favor by changing the thread title to something a bit more revealing, like:

Help me choose from among these solo string libraries, or I will die​

Thank you. :)
 
If you like the tone, and I do, then the VSL Synchronized Solo Strings offers a high level of control and there is a 14 day refund policy if you don't like them if you buy direct from VSL.

You can also get them back to dry samples if you wish to add your own reverb.

In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, they can be very good indeed......

 
I almost pulled the trigger on Spitfire but then I watched this one.



I believe I've seen some posts about not liking the sound. I always thought it sounded good but I think Berlin FC just sounded better in this video.

Saw the exact same video the other day. Berlin sounded so organic and "warm" compared to others, even CSSS. That bottom end was amazing to listen to. Unique.
 
I almost pulled the trigger on Spitfire but then I watched this one.



I believe I've seen some posts about not liking the sound. I always thought it sounded good but I think Berlin FC just sounded better in this video.

Note that the “spitfire solo string” in this are the 10 year old, long since end of lifed “spitfire solo strings” and have nothing to do with the current “spitfire solo strings”
 
The thing here is the frustrating inbuilt delay is actually how real string instruments work. This is also CSSS' single deviation from laser focus on optimization for plonkability. The upside is that it makes you think, at least a little bit, about crafting strings lines idiomatically. Rather than pandering entirely to piano players.

Which is perhaps the hardest, most frustrating - and most interesting and exciting thing about learning to write for solo strings with samples.

CSSS is great at what it's great at precisely because of this plonkabilty. It has a beautiful progressive vibrato baked right into it. And this is a beautiful arc, but not one you have much control over. Deviate from the musicality of this arc and ... things go badly.

If you're looking for credible idiomatic string writing, then one approach is to pick a library that bakes the performance in (CSSS, Bohemian, Tina Guo, etc) and ruthlessly restrict your writing to very precisely colouring within the lines of that idiom. You can get very nice sound + some plonkability in this. Provided of course that what you need to write fits within these predetermined lines.

Or you can go to the modelled/ programmable end of the spectrum - (SWAM, Chris Hein etc). In which case the frustration of the CSSS delay will pale in comparison of the effort of programming the idiomatic. Also, the modelling techiques imo give you this expressivity only at significant cost to the sound. (Note that CH, though virtuosic in expressiveness, are recorded bone dry, and I think in mono)


Emotional Violin/Cello/Viola are somewhere in the middle (though also very, very dry). You don't get great control over dynamics or vibrato, but you have a *lot* of idiomatic performances available. Crafting lines with EV and all the key switches is fun, and an education in idiomatic violin performance in itself. "Idiomatic lego" is how I think of it. But I think that all the crossfading and whatever else it requires comes at a cost to the sonority. Or at least in requiring it to be recorded bone dry. Which is ok for a virtuosic soloist, but I'm not sure how it would translate to an quartet.

Spitfire Solo Strings hits another sweet spot, which I think of as "as much expressiveness as possible with damaging the sonority" (aka the spitfire policy of "No samples were harmed in the programming of this library"). I personally love the expressivity that this yields. And you have enough control to create ensembles with that chamber intimacy of "the players watching each other elbows" which you'll never get with the Joshua Bell or Bohemian. Also, the real spatiality that you get from the wet recording in AIR let them sit together distinguishably embodied in a real space also gives an intimacy that you'll never simulate on a dry library.

This the refusal to sacrifice sonority comes at a cost to expressiveness. Attempt to mock up a Beethoven quartet with SsS at your own peril. Sacconi, which I don't have, is probably better for more classical quarters.

Many of the same comments for the OT first chairs, which I've only just started playing with. The dynamics, and especially the (almost non-existent) vibrato control aren't remotely as good as SsS. But it has it's own sweet spots, and they're also amazing good, completely unique. In particular the ability to craft arcs using long and short portatos, some lovely & pristinely classical harshness on attacks, and the soft dynamics of the cello is to die for. The wet, in situ recording is another big plus in my book (similar to CSSS and SsS). Absence of vibrato control is a major limitation for quartet writing, and attempting to mock up a Beethoven quartet is (I predict) going to leave you wanting to slam your head in a door as much as with Spitfire Solo Strings. But there are sweet spots for quartet writing here also, I feel, even if I'm not completely sure what they are yet.

Anyway, if the frustration of the delay in CSSS is a deal breaker for working with sampled solo strings ... I don't think your going to enjoy working with any sampled solo strings, ever. Seriously, might as well just go ahead and jump straight to slamming your head in a door without all the expense and inconvenience of messing around with sample libraries that will inevitably drive you to this eventually anyway.

I'd also seriously look into hiring real musicians (seriously - ping someone like Nicolaj , I think he still does this sort of recording @thesteelydane )
One of the best replies I've had to read. Thanks a lot! Of course inbuilt delay is a sinequanone condition for strings, I never said or thought otherwise. CSS / CSSS uses this delay the most, and it's no surprise they still have the best legato even after all those years.

I'm simply trying to find a good balance between solid programming and confort (playability), which is obviously a very hard task. Berlin gives me this confort even though it's not the absolute best library for legato (I still love their portamentos, way more expressive than CSS). It still offers me that agility and expressiveness for soaring lines, and the tone is sooo nice out of the box.

Since you have OT Berlin FC, do you confirm there's a dedicated vibrato control? Is it a on & off switch type of control or a crossfade?

How would you rate Spitfire legato V.S Berlin FC? The comparison video mentioned above didn't really convince me of the "spatiality" of Spitfire. While Berlin really kicked ass.

Thanks again :)
 
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If you don't like the vibrato control in CSSS, here's what I think you should get:

Spitfire Solo Strings (the current one, not to be confused with the ancient 10 year old version that's no longer sold) - An all around great solo string library - and with the impressive vibrato control you might be looking for. (They have a vibrato slider that transitions really well)

PLUS:

Embertone JB Violin + VirHarmonic's Bohemian Cello (and consider purchasing the violin and upcoming viola) - I recommend these in addition to the main string library because you will not find expressive solo strings like these in an all encompassing solo string library.

...and that's it.

PLUS: (lol)

Get Ben Osterhouse's stuff along with Westwood's Untamed series later. Their stuff does things and sounds like no other libraries out there, and they're reasonably priced.

Hope this helps. :)
 
Note that the “spitfire solo string” in this are the 10 year old, long since end of lifed “spitfire solo strings” and have nothing to do with the current “spitfire solo strings”
OMG. That explains it then. The sound seemed so thin and baldy separated. Now I'm even more torn between Berlin FC and Spitfire.
 
Since you have OT Berlin FS, do you confirm there's a dedicated vibrato control? Is it a on & off switch type of control or a crossfade?

How would you rate Spitfire legato V.S Berlin FS? The comparison video mentioned above didn't really convince me of the "spatiality" of Spitfire. While Berlin really kicked ass.

Thanks again :)
I haven’t been able to find the vibrato control yet on Berlin FCs. It’s not visible in the usual place these kinds of options usually are in Sine. But I’m still learning the instruments and I haven’t checked the manual. I’m just going from my knowledge of other Sine libraries.

I prefer the first desk SF violin to both of these violins—the SF first desk especially sweet in its top octave—but the Berlin FCs sound very good, and I can easily imagine someone else preferring them to the SF.
 
One of the best replies I've had to read. Thanks a lot! Of course inbuilt delay is a sinequanone condition for strings, I never said or thought otherwise. CSS / CSSS uses this delay the most, and it's no surprise they still have the best legato even after all those years.

I'm simply trying to find a good balance between solid programming and confort (playability), which is obviously a very hard task. Berlin gives me this confort even though it's not the absolute best library for legato (I still love their portamentos, way more expressive than CSS). It still offers me that agility and expressiveness for soaring lines, and the tone is sooo nice out of the box.

Since you have OT Berlin FC, do you confirm there's a dedicated vibrato control? Is it a on & off switch type of control or a crossfade?

How would you rate Spitfire legato V.S Berlin FC? The comparison video mentioned above didn't really convince me of the "spatiality" of Spitfire. While Berlin really kicked ass.

Thanks again :)

So I love solo strings libraries, and I love both Spitfire and Berlin, and I love string quartets ... but neither of these libraries are really designed for for quartet writing. There’s great quartet-like musicality to be found in each if you’re extremely carefull about colouring within the lines of the sweet spots, but it’s very limited.

I don’t think berlin has any control over vibrato all, except that you have 4 different arcs (2 long & 2 short) to choose from performed differently, so there’s a little bit of variation to be had. (Note that I don't think the above comparison uses the arcs or much of anything else in crafting phrasing. The (current) spitfire solo strings has vibrato control, but it’s on/off (unless you craft the phrase in dynamics also). This can be great, and is essential for the string quartet “watching each others elbows” effect. But it’s never going to match the smoothness of a slow langorous progressive vibratos.

My go to example for how to craft the arcs is this noodle:



Haven’t played with Berlin enough yet to offer a noodle that crafts phraseings in it yet.

In any event, in the way comparison videos like the above typically tend to approach comparisons, they’re unlikely to attempt to craft the phrasing and make use of the performability of SF or Berlin. So libraries like CSSS tends to win by merit of mere plonkabiliy and baked in progressive vibrato. Such is the youtube economy we live in.


I don’t know which is better Berlin or SF for quartets. Both are winners in tone, both have some fabulous performability, both will make you want to slam you head in a door if you idea of strings quartets is like, you know, Beethoven. Neither are remotely up to mocking up Beethoven. And “which is best?’ is a bit of a “how long is a piece of string?” question in the first place.


OMG. That explains it then. The sound seemed so thin and baldy separated. Now I'm even more torn between Berlin FC and Spitfire.
It’s actually one of the earliest SF libraries. The hadn’t even figured out how to get multiple mics to work with legato at the time.

Still, it has Caroline Dale on cello. And so with the extremely narrow sweet spot of Caroline Dale playing mf only, molto vibrato only, tree mic only, there’s a gorgeous sweet spot that I’m still quite glad to have.
 
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I'm simply trying to find a good balance between solid programming and confort (playability)

Yeah, well “balance” is often a noble goal. And then there are time when it risks amounting to falling between stools and dying a horrible death.

As there have been mental health implications implicit in this this thread fr0m the start (like a lot of solo strings threads actually), maybe worth sharing this again:

13939634-EBC8-4251-A4B9-5D0C77C78F82.jpeg
 
So I love solo strings libraries, and I love both Spitfire and Berlin, and I love string quartets ... but neither of these libraries are really designed for for quartet writing. There’s great quartet-like musicality to be found in each if you’re extremely carefull about colouring within the lines of the sweet spots, but it’s very limited.

I don’t think berlin has any control over vibrato all, except that you have 4 different arcs (2 long & 2 short) to choose from performed differently, so there’s a little bit of variation to be had. (Note that I don't think the above comparison uses the arcs or much of anything else in crafting phrasing. The (current) spitfire solo strings has vibrato control, but it’s on/off (unless you craft the phrase in dynamics also). This can be great, and is essential for the string quartet “watching each others elbows” effect. But it’s never going to match the smoothness of a slow langorous progressive vibratos.

My go to example for how to craft the arcs is this noodle:



Haven’t played with Berlin enough yet to offer a noodle that crafts phraseings in it yet.

But the way comparison videos like the above tend to approach comparisons, they’re unlikely to attempt to craft the phrasing and make use of the performability of SF or Berlin. So libraries like CSSS tends to win by merit of mere plonkabiliy and baked in progressive vibrato. Such is the youtube economy we live in.


I don’t know which is better Berlin or SF for quartets. Both are winners in tone, both have some fabulous performability, both will make you want to slam you head in a door if you idea of strings quartets is like, you know, Beethoven. Neither are remotely up to mocking up Beethoven. And “which is best?’ is a bit of a “how long is a piece of string?” question in the first place.



It’s actually one of the earliest SF libraries. The hadn’t even figured out how to get multiple mics to work with legato at the time.

Still, it has Caroline Dale on cello. And so with the extremely narrow sweet spot of Caroline Dale playing mf only, molto vibrato only, tree mic only, there’s a gorgeous sweet spot that I’m still quite glad to have.

Thanks again man! Apart from the vibrato question mark, the fact that Berlin FC only has one type of "slurred" legato (besides portamento) makes me wonder if this lib can handle fast passages as well as Spifire. Could it also make the performance sound a bit sterile and repetitive, compared to an instrument that could alternate between bowed, fingered, etc...?

To be honest, I don't think I'm really going for a "true" quartet sound in the long run. I mostly write huge orchestral stuff, and would rather need a First Chairs type of setup & sound for future work.
 
Thanks again man! Apart from the vibrato question mark, the fact that Berlin FC only has one type of "slurred" legato (besides portamento) makes me wonder if this lib can handle fast passages as well as Spifire. Could it also make the performance sound a bit sterile and repetitive, compared to an instrument that could alternate between bowed, fingered, etc...?

To be honest, I don't think I'm really going for a "true" quartet sound in the long run. I mostly write huge orchestral stuff, and would rather need a First Chairs type of setup & sound for future work.
These are good questions ... haven’t played with Berlin enough yet to say, though my impression in that it’s pretty good at fast lines.

Joshua bell of course is extraordinary at fast lines, probably the most pristine fiery fast legato there is. But the SF virtuosic violin (and the cello) also has cool ‘arpegio legato’:

 
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