Dear Spitfire: What Were You Thinking?

[BezO]

I can't remember there ever being a way to do that - but quite happy for someone to correct me.

You could unload the articulation you don't want (the microchip underneath) and in the next Kontakt slot, load the individual articulation you want to replace it with. Set both slots to the same midi channel. Using UACC switches correctly between the slots.

Thanks. I may have to rely on something similar at some point, but I'm trying desperately to avoid multiple tracks per instrument. Keyswitching is so much more convenient for me. I've been meaning to watch some vids specifically looking for how the track-per-articulation folks work with this.

I'm curious about the limitation. Maybe it's my experience that's limited, but lesser libraries allow for this. Symphony Series, for example.

 

[Alex Fraser]

Thanks. I may have to rely on something similar at some point, but I'm trying desperately to avoid multiple tracks per instrument. I'm a keyswitcher.

I'm curious about the limitation. Maybe it's my experience that's limited, but lesser libraries allow for this. Symphony Series, for example.

Ah, sorry I should have been clearer. Summit like this:



Back on topic: Spitfire sucks boo hiss etc etc.

 

[5Lives]

Help for a new Spitfire user, please. And pardon if this is documented or obvious, but I'm having trouble finding it, if it's a feature. And this is for the Studio series in the Kontakt / Komplete Kontrol player.

Is it possible to swap available keyswitches? For example, can I swap out a basic for a decorative articulation in the basic patch?

Don’t believe their Kontakt interface allows for that (though check the manual) but ironically their new player does.

 

[ridgero]

Dear Spitfire

Why?

Why did you decide to move from Kontakt and make your own player such a disaster for organization?

Why would you organize your library in such a way that if you want all the available articulations of an instrument you need to create multiple tracks with multiple instances of your player and eat up MIDI channels and resources when Kontakt handled this beautifully as a multi with transform ksps and instrument banks?

This is kind of a nightmare for anyone who likes to keep as leaned out a template as possible or isn't using a server with 1TB of memory.

If Paul or Chris actually happen to be on here and read this:

For the love of god, please redesign the player so that it has patch banks where you can load or unload as many patches from that library for that instrument as you need-- needing two or three instances of HZ Violas so one can use pizz and strummed pizz is, to use a technical term, B A N A N A S.

(And why these aren't coming pre-mapped to UACC after pushing this for years is kind of beyond me as well.)

/rant

I think the SF Player doesn’t suits you and thats okay.

There are a ton of companies, who are still using Kontakt as their primary player.

 

[BezO]

Ah, sorry I should have been clearer. Summit like this:



Back on topic: Spitfire sucks boo hiss etc etc.

Maybe "track" was the wrong word. With this method, the MIDI would still be separate for the additional articulation(s), no?

Don’t believe their Kontakt interface allows for that (though check the manual) but ironically their new player does.

I can't find anything in the manual regarding this, probably because it's not possible.

Spitfire's player would probably suffice if I didn't rely on the Komplete Kontrol Keyboard.

 

[ism]

There's a lot of misinformation flowing through this thread and there needs to be a bit of balance.

Yes, the Spitfire player isn't perfect but it is capable of slotting into pro workflows. It has keyswitching options that can be changed or intergrated into an articulation switching system. It's lack of memory purging can be offset using things like DAW dynamic plugin loading and the like.

I could go on, but in short, there are ways to work with it.

The OP's central argument is that Spitfire have "messed up" by not designing a player around his specific needs and workflow. It's a weird argument framing that's too prevalent around these parts. If a tool or library doesn't quite work in the way you want, the "professional" way is to find a solution to make it work. Not to hit the forums demanding changes.

Yes, we should always encourage and help developers to improve. But this "calling developers out" thing, deliberately pushing the extreme ends of the argument for views and clicks helps no-one. There are ways of engaging productively with devs and threads like this 'aint it.

(edited for clarity.)

To amplify this, it’s worth noting that , I think, the reason these threads are so at risk of becoming acrimonious is the Implicit projection of an individuals taste or preferences or workflow as the gold standard of what is ‘professional’.

For instance, a certain reviewer’s take on a recent library from a certain developer noted that he just couldn’t see it appeaIing to professionals.

It clearly wasn’t the best library for himself, it was perfectly legitimate for him to point out. But he didn;t seem to recognize that this choice of words, combined with various other instances of similar textual sleight of hand, was easily, read as an (implicit) insult to the (many) professionals to whom who the library was genuinely suited to.


That this is happening implicitly, and probably not even consciously, makes the cycle of conflict all the more pernicious and unnecessary.

 

[brenneisen]

Is it possible to swap available keyswitches? For example, can I swap out a basic for a decorative articulation in the basic patch?

It is

Don’t believe their Kontakt interface allows for that (though check the manual) but ironically their new player does.

It does

 

[Alex Fraser]

Maybe "track" was the wrong word. With this method, the MIDI would still be separate for the additional articulation(s), no?


I can't find anything in the manual regarding this, probably because it's not possible.

Spitfire's player would probably suffice if I didn't rely on the Komplete Kontrol Keyboard.

No, the midi could exist on the one track for both slots.

 

[BezO]

It is...

Thanks! Care to share some instructions? I left/right clicked, +command/option/controled my way to nowhere, after searching the manual.

No, the midi could exist on the one track for both slots.

Ahh, not as inconvenient as I thought. @brenneisen introduced a twist, but if my preferred method is not possible, that will work. Thanks!

Edit: The last I looked at a similar method, it was with all keyswtich slots filled. Deleting the unneeded articulation is key.

 

[AGMediaNL]

Not so happy with these new players (Spitfire, OT) aswell.
If I can't dive under the hood to fix problems (sample starts, loops, x-fades, exclude/replace bad samples, etc), it's a no go for me.
I already completely side-lined too many (high-end) libraries with problems I couldn't really work around (having no access to the back-end).

Even if the day ever comes, where sample developers launch libraries that are a 100% perfect, I would still prefer to have access from time to time to adjust certain patches to the track I'm working on at that specific moment.

 

[brenneisen]

ctrl+click on the articulation

not perfect, though:

- it's not a swap but an alias/shortcut instead

- you can't get rid of the original ones

- the pressed key state isn't shown (not a biggie, you have the UI)

 

[BezO]

ctrl+click on the articulation

not perfect, though:

- it's not a swap but an alias/shortcut instead

- you can't get rid of the original ones

- the pressed key state isn't shown (not a biggie, you have the UI)

Genius! Thanks! If I'm understanding what I'm seeing, this is better than swapping. I can create a super patch.

One more step please. Your example shows aliasing an articulation from within the patch. Maybe this will make more sense while at my computer, but how do I alias an articulation not in the loaded patch? I'm specifically trying to alias an articulation from the decorative patch to the basic patch.

 

[Geoff Grace]

In answer to the "What Were You Thinking?" question, I recall Christian saying on more than one occasion that he wanted to democratize the process of writing for an orchestra, making it both easy to access and easy to use. The current interface design seems to stem from that goal.

Ultimately, I think an approach similar to Apple's with Logic Pro X—in which the user can choose between a simple interface or a more full-featured one—would satisfy the widest range of users. One can only hope that will come as Spitfire's player evolves over time.

Best,

Geoff

 

[robgb]

No no and NO . They told everyone this is a Sine player only library.
Would be so cool, but ...

Hmm. Then where did I hear they would be supporting both platforms with future libraries?

 

[dzilizzi]

Hmm. Then where did I hear they would be supporting both platforms with future libraries?

I heard that also. Sometime when they were first talking about it.

 

[dflood]

Spitfire and Orchestral Tools libraries are among the most expensive and complex. There are undoubtedly good business reasons why they would prefer not to use a competitor’s sample player. However, unless their new players are superior to Kontakt, then the value proposition is solely for the company, not for the customer. From what I have seen in their walkthroughs, OT at least, does seem to be trying to make a superior player.

 

[jononotbono]

Hmm. Then where did I hear they would be supporting both platforms with future libraries?

In your dreams?

 

[Ashermusic]

According to ALOT of people.

Means nothing, 63 million people voted for Trump.

 

[babylonwaves]

I don't personally use keyswitches, but I'm installing HZ Strings for a client right now and the pre-mapped keyswitches are not remotely consistent; it makes no sense.

Key switch consistency is an issue not only SF faces. In many situations, consistency would require a fairly huge range for the switches. At least if you want to make everything consistent with a library such as HZS where the different patches have different articulation choices. Look at the 20 Celli left vs right patches for instance.
The player is made for key switching. Not so much for an articulation per track layout.

 

[donnyluvd2bowl]

I don't have the library, but I'm pretty sure you can load a custom set of articulations and associated keyswitches in the BBCSO plugin.

I'm also surprised that anyone would be using old school key switching - using articulation maps in Logic for example would make Spitfire's chosen preset key switches kind of irrelevant.

you can only unload the patches that are associated with that instrument, you can't add

i don't use keyswitches either, UACC is also CC32 mappings