...if you've already decided Christian is in the wrong, it's perfect for confirmation bias.
For balance:
Last edited by a moderator:
Big changes coming to Pianobook
- Thread starter allen-garvey
- Start date
- Watchers 80
- Status
...if you've already decided Christian is in the wrong, it's perfect for confirmation bias.
For balance:
I'll keep my mouth shut on the matter which cost the departure Chris announced (it's sensitive still as it seems, unfortunately).
However, I do wish the spitfire audio team AND Christian the best in what they will do in the future.
I hope they at least remain friends in their private lives
However, I do wish the spitfire audio team AND Christian the best in what they will do in the future.
I hope they at least remain friends in their private lives
Last edited:
Paul@Sydney
Re-Member
I do feel sad for Christian. He and Spitfire handled this all very poorly and now it's cost them and their customers dearly. All this fall-out for want of a simple genuine apology/clarification. Wish everyone involved the best. Mike's recent explanation of what's going on behind the scenes in Christians family life really explains it all, I'm not sure why Christian couldn't share that himself, give it all context. I know I would struggle in that scenario, and fail to handle it perfectly. But that's what being a parent is all about. We are all just making it up as we go along. And that scenario is particularly challenging to navigate.
As a private person, THIS ▲ is also exactly how I understood his tweet. Then it got a life of its own, false attributions and unbecoming speculations were made based on people he named in his tweet. But these issues are now openly debated and will be for years, as there are nuances to consider if one is to be honest, and lives affected, sometimes in dramatic ways.
I do understand the fear of re-opening dark chapters of history, but this was not about that. And the fear itself is actually being challenged by many detransitioners who have started to push back on specific perspectives or details, and courageously share their own stories/journey. Voices needed.
So I think as a society we still have miles to go and a lot of listening to do that can help better grasp the various "angles" without resorting to harmful generalizations and polarization.
Peace.
Laddy
Senior Member
I support CH..
And JKR..
And.. no, come to think of it, not Glinner, I don't know much about him, but I don't have a good impression of him. I wish CH had chosen someone more moderate to support.
That video about Spitfire/transphobia was really annoying, though. Anyone who can control their confirmation bias to a certain degree can see that this is not a black-and-white issue. But this guy, he just smugly dismisses any concerns, any disagreement with the trans movement (in lack of a better word) as just "Terf shit" and "nothing to worry about, things were going well at Tavistock, nothing to see here" (paraphrasing). I wouldn't say it is well-sourced, at least the part about youth treatment. To me it's pretty obvious that he just searched and found one article that paints Tavistock in a positive light and ignored all the other articles that points out how things have been out of control.
But if you like The Guardian, sure, read this new book review and reflect on who has the best overview of the Tavistock situation, a synth guy or an investigative journalist.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-hannah-barnes-review-what-went-wrong-at-gids
I think a lot of CH's critics just don't understand his perspective, and what it means to be a parent, to be a bit snarky. They just don't listen, it's good vs evil for them. Judging from how young/old they look, I would guess that most of them don't have schoolage kids themselves. Maybe they understand this issue in light of their adult trans friends, whom they of course care about, and they see how transphobia hurts them. And that part, I respect. I never heard of that trans woman who made the Gaze sample library for Spitfire/Pianobook before, but it seems like a really cool person, and I felt sorry for her in this whole mess.
Anyway, they want CH to "educate himself", and apologize, without considering that maybe he's already researched this issue 10 times more than themselves, asked around, read reports, research articles and journalism about the issue, and maybe what he found didn't calm him down, but rather made him more alert of the very real dangers of mistreatment and the low evidence-base of youth transitioning, especially in light of the demographic shift since around 2012-2015. And I respect that he would rather leave the company than to lie and say that he has changed his mind. People can force him out of the company with their social media mobs, but they can't control his thoughts and words, even if they want to.
(BTW, for those interested, this is a new, peer-reviewed article in BMJ that clearly demonstrates that this isn't an uncontested issue: "Gender dysphoria in young people is rising - and so is professional disagreement".)
https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382
And JKR..
And.. no, come to think of it, not Glinner, I don't know much about him, but I don't have a good impression of him. I wish CH had chosen someone more moderate to support.
That video about Spitfire/transphobia was really annoying, though. Anyone who can control their confirmation bias to a certain degree can see that this is not a black-and-white issue. But this guy, he just smugly dismisses any concerns, any disagreement with the trans movement (in lack of a better word) as just "Terf shit" and "nothing to worry about, things were going well at Tavistock, nothing to see here" (paraphrasing). I wouldn't say it is well-sourced, at least the part about youth treatment. To me it's pretty obvious that he just searched and found one article that paints Tavistock in a positive light and ignored all the other articles that points out how things have been out of control.
But if you like The Guardian, sure, read this new book review and reflect on who has the best overview of the Tavistock situation, a synth guy or an investigative journalist.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-hannah-barnes-review-what-went-wrong-at-gids
I think a lot of CH's critics just don't understand his perspective, and what it means to be a parent, to be a bit snarky. They just don't listen, it's good vs evil for them. Judging from how young/old they look, I would guess that most of them don't have schoolage kids themselves. Maybe they understand this issue in light of their adult trans friends, whom they of course care about, and they see how transphobia hurts them. And that part, I respect. I never heard of that trans woman who made the Gaze sample library for Spitfire/Pianobook before, but it seems like a really cool person, and I felt sorry for her in this whole mess.
Anyway, they want CH to "educate himself", and apologize, without considering that maybe he's already researched this issue 10 times more than themselves, asked around, read reports, research articles and journalism about the issue, and maybe what he found didn't calm him down, but rather made him more alert of the very real dangers of mistreatment and the low evidence-base of youth transitioning, especially in light of the demographic shift since around 2012-2015. And I respect that he would rather leave the company than to lie and say that he has changed his mind. People can force him out of the company with their social media mobs, but they can't control his thoughts and words, even if they want to.
(BTW, for those interested, this is a new, peer-reviewed article in BMJ that clearly demonstrates that this isn't an uncontested issue: "Gender dysphoria in young people is rising - and so is professional disagreement".)
https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382
Last edited:
MaxOctane
I married an LLM
That nice of them to say, but I think it's exactly the outcome his critics wanted. Jeremy from the Red Means Recording video even said today “this is one of the worst outcomes”... but then immediately called for CH to be removed from Spitfire’s corporate structure (from the SFA board) entirely.
As a Standard-Issue California Liberal, it makes me sad how aggressively we silence anything that vaguely resembles a difference of opinion. And the "opinion" in question here --as I understand the CH issue-- is limited to whether parental consent should be required for hormonal intervention for minors (as it's required for literally every medical procedure). Somehow that question becomes a "denial of trans people's existence" or (to quote Red Means Recording from the video) "Christian Henson's radicalization."
Total bummer. I do wish Christian had just crafted a proper follow-up. I can only guess that he was caught between thinking that less-said-is-better, or was stubbornly enraged at people's reaction.
Last edited:
Loïc D
Monkeying with libraries
Very sad situation for both Spitfire & Christian.
I came to Spitfire because his enthusiasm literally sold me on the products.
He looked lately quite like a poor guy, and given the mental health issues he suffered, “I don’t have a good feeling about this”.
Christian, take a train to Paris, wine’s on me.
On a side note, I really appreciate the contribution of ppl on ViC - far from the angry mob.
I came to Spitfire because his enthusiasm literally sold me on the products.
He looked lately quite like a poor guy, and given the mental health issues he suffered, “I don’t have a good feeling about this”.
Christian, take a train to Paris, wine’s on me.
On a side note, I really appreciate the contribution of ppl on ViC - far from the angry mob.
ALittleNightMusic
Composer / Developer
I don't know where you are getting this from but Paul and Christian still follow each other and interact with each other's posts on Instagram. I hope you're not making an assumption based on your own emotions and then drumming up support from the mob to create a backlash about a person you not only don't know but also don't know the full context of their viewpoints and stances. We've all seen what that can do.
d4vec4rter
Senior Member
So, Christian Henson had an opinion about something. Don't we all? He dared to express this opinion on social media and now we have this complete load of shite blown up out of all f'ing proportion culminating in him leaving the company he co-founded. Well, I'll express my opinion about all of this now... it's the biggest load of bollox out. Welcome to the death of free speech everyone!
Last edited:
Crowe
Avian Member
This is a shame. There is no point to this at all. The bullies will never stop, it will never be enough and nothing will be won or fixed.
Cancel culture has claimed yet another victim. Interesting how it's generally the folks who claim to have been victimized who have no problem burning everyone who disagrees with them to the ground and will get out the pitchforks when it suits them.
I didn't and don't agree with Christian's tweet at all. It was a pretty bad take if you ask me.
With the rampant cancelling, the video game boycotts and straight-up bullying of anyone with a different voice though, it sure looks like the actions of these 'trans-activists' show a lot of similarities with the proclaimed actions of those they claim to hate.
Cancel culture has claimed yet another victim. Interesting how it's generally the folks who claim to have been victimized who have no problem burning everyone who disagrees with them to the ground and will get out the pitchforks when it suits them.
I didn't and don't agree with Christian's tweet at all. It was a pretty bad take if you ask me.
With the rampant cancelling, the video game boycotts and straight-up bullying of anyone with a different voice though, it sure looks like the actions of these 'trans-activists' show a lot of similarities with the proclaimed actions of those they claim to hate.
Last edited:
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
We have just entered a new era of the good old witch-hunt. The previous one took about 300 years.
The mob decides who is guilty, and the mob carries out the sentence. This should be the prerogative of the courts. Accused should have a right to defense, which they do not currently have. This is bad. We are a civilized society, aren't we?
But this is an interesting time to live. The internet has given voice and real power to the crowd in a way that has never happened before in history.
Just curious where we will be in a decade.
---
I don't use a lot of Spitfire stuff. Without any specific reason, it just happened most of my need are covered by other vendors.
But I appreciate what Christian did, both Spitfire and his youtube channel. He gives the impression of an honest and direct person. It's very unfair to have all of this just because of a single tweet.
Christian's retweet of Linehan's video was one of the daftest ideas I've seen on Twitter.
But the kind of feeding frenzy on Twitter today calling for some kind of penance with ashes and self-flagellation is symptomatic of the problem in the activist community. It absolutely plays into the hands of Linehan and the more hardline gender-crits because it shows the trans activists as bullies – and that's exactly what they want to show. So, great job, well done. Keep posting the videos because it's doing your opponents' work for you.
Ah, that will always be Gamergate for me. Which is where Linehan started on his quest.
But the kind of feeding frenzy on Twitter today calling for some kind of penance with ashes and self-flagellation is symptomatic of the problem in the activist community. It absolutely plays into the hands of Linehan and the more hardline gender-crits because it shows the trans activists as bullies – and that's exactly what they want to show. So, great job, well done. Keep posting the videos because it's doing your opponents' work for you.
Ah, that will always be Gamergate for me. Which is where Linehan started on his quest.
Geoff Grace
Senior Member
I have close ties with people in the trans community, and I have a lot of compassion for how difficult it is to deal with the bigotry and hatred they face. The consequences of this hatred can be very serious and sometimes even fatal.
I don’t think that anyone would argue that the wording of Christian’s infamous tweet was well chosen, and I can understand why it was hurtful to a lot of people and why they would want to argue against what he wrote.
I believe in the exercise of free speech, and I’m glad that many people used this incident to raise awareness. However, I part ways with those who decided to wage an activist campaign to destroy Christian’s livelihood over an isolated tweet.
For starters, aren’t there bigger fish to fry? If you want to make life better for the trans community, wouldn’t it be better to push back against those who are repeatedly fighting against your rights? Unless you have proof that Christian is channeling ongoing support (donations, speeches, etc.) against trans rights, then he doesn’t fall into this category.
Secondly, does the punishment fit the crime? It seems more like a life for an eye than an eye for an eye to me. Christian’s tweet was countered successfully with words. Anything more is out of balance. At this point, despite my support for the trans community, I have more sympathy for Christian than I have for the harm his words caused. That’s a loss for both “sides.” (I put “sides” in quotations because Mike has argued that Christian supports the trans community. As someone who is well acquainted with him, this seems plausible to me. Of course, only Christian truly knows how he feels.)
Thirdly, repeatedly digging up an old tweet gives it strength and longevity that it doesn’t deserve. Why give it that extra power?
Lastly, when you destroy someone’s livelihood over one tweet, you set a precedent that the exercise of free speech may be severely punished. While there may be perceived benefits in this isolated case, this trend is eroding freedom of speech for all of us; and that is disastrous.
Best,
Geoff
I don’t think that anyone would argue that the wording of Christian’s infamous tweet was well chosen, and I can understand why it was hurtful to a lot of people and why they would want to argue against what he wrote.
I believe in the exercise of free speech, and I’m glad that many people used this incident to raise awareness. However, I part ways with those who decided to wage an activist campaign to destroy Christian’s livelihood over an isolated tweet.
For starters, aren’t there bigger fish to fry? If you want to make life better for the trans community, wouldn’t it be better to push back against those who are repeatedly fighting against your rights? Unless you have proof that Christian is channeling ongoing support (donations, speeches, etc.) against trans rights, then he doesn’t fall into this category.
Secondly, does the punishment fit the crime? It seems more like a life for an eye than an eye for an eye to me. Christian’s tweet was countered successfully with words. Anything more is out of balance. At this point, despite my support for the trans community, I have more sympathy for Christian than I have for the harm his words caused. That’s a loss for both “sides.” (I put “sides” in quotations because Mike has argued that Christian supports the trans community. As someone who is well acquainted with him, this seems plausible to me. Of course, only Christian truly knows how he feels.)
Thirdly, repeatedly digging up an old tweet gives it strength and longevity that it doesn’t deserve. Why give it that extra power?
Lastly, when you destroy someone’s livelihood over one tweet, you set a precedent that the exercise of free speech may be severely punished. While there may be perceived benefits in this isolated case, this trend is eroding freedom of speech for all of us; and that is disastrous.
Best,
Geoff
Last edited:
Henu
Dismember
My post goes here. Who the hell is "Jeremy from Red Means Recording" and why is he taking a public stance on all this?
tc9000
Absolute Member
On the subjects of music, sampling, composition, Christian is a valuable contributor. I have learned a huge amount from him, I owe him a lot. I'm sure others feel the same.
On the subjects of gender, parenting, sexuality - all those things: imma make my own mind up. There is no way that Christian is going to influence me there. Same goes for anyone else - say your thing: I'll listen, but ultimately, I won't be influenced by your opinion: I'll look into the facts and make my own mind up.
When people talk about stuff, we evaluate them before swallowing their opinions - thats the nature of critical thinking: we analyze the available facts, evidence, observations, and arguments to form a judgment.
On the subjects of gender, parenting, sexuality - all those things: imma make my own mind up. There is no way that Christian is going to influence me there. Same goes for anyone else - say your thing: I'll listen, but ultimately, I won't be influenced by your opinion: I'll look into the facts and make my own mind up.
When people talk about stuff, we evaluate them before swallowing their opinions - thats the nature of critical thinking: we analyze the available facts, evidence, observations, and arguments to form a judgment.
NekujaK
Parallel compression is unparalleled
These kinds of firestorms are fueled by the extensive reach of social media. 30 years ago, people also had strong, controversial, and potentially harmful opinions, but they rarely ever got propagated beyond the small circle of people we knew directly.
Social media has given everyone a satellite-powered megaphone, and anything we post has the potential of being treated like front page news, reaching vast numbers of people we don't even know. Unfortunately, many folks don't seem to understand this, and post as if they're talking with their close friends in a familiar space where they are accepted and understood, and friendly discourse can occur. And so, we get situations like Christian's.
He probably should've taken a breath before deciding to announce his beliefs to the world, especially given the context and current zeitgeist surrounding this sensitive issue. The bigger your social media following, the more careful you need to be about what you put out there. The simple act of expressing an opinion, to which you're completely entitled, can easily turn loyal followers into an angry lynch mob. Like it or not, it's just how things work.
I think this whole episode is unfortunate from all sides. But at the same time, Christian is effectively a public figure who broadcast a strong personal opinion about a sensitive issue to a vast worldwide audience. He had to know this was one of the possible outcomes.
Either way, it's a lesson for all of us in this age of "look at me" overload.
Social media has given everyone a satellite-powered megaphone, and anything we post has the potential of being treated like front page news, reaching vast numbers of people we don't even know. Unfortunately, many folks don't seem to understand this, and post as if they're talking with their close friends in a familiar space where they are accepted and understood, and friendly discourse can occur. And so, we get situations like Christian's.
He probably should've taken a breath before deciding to announce his beliefs to the world, especially given the context and current zeitgeist surrounding this sensitive issue. The bigger your social media following, the more careful you need to be about what you put out there. The simple act of expressing an opinion, to which you're completely entitled, can easily turn loyal followers into an angry lynch mob. Like it or not, it's just how things work.
I think this whole episode is unfortunate from all sides. But at the same time, Christian is effectively a public figure who broadcast a strong personal opinion about a sensitive issue to a vast worldwide audience. He had to know this was one of the possible outcomes.
Either way, it's a lesson for all of us in this age of "look at me" overload.
Just to avoid any kind of ambivalence on where I stand when you read the next paragraph: Trans rights are human rights!
I'm worried about this: when from one side or the other Christian is forced to sever ties with all the decent people he's been working with so far to limit the fallout... who will be left? Who will be the people that embrace him in spite of - or worse, because of - his statements, when he isn't able to speak in the sane circles anymore? This is exactly how radicalization can start. I don't consider him leaving Spitfire a "win" for anyone. I think it's a dangerous first step on what ultimately could be a string of poor choices. I sincerely hope he finds a way to turn around soon!
Also, I hate to be the "Will someone please think of the children?"-guy, but behind Christian there is a family, with real people and real struggles, and I can't possibly imagine how harmful it must be for a child to see their father in such a situation. This point is easy to forget if you know someone just as the face of a youtube channel and sample library company, but I think it's important to consider. This isn't just about him. Everything happening to him has consequences for other people as well. (And that's yet one more reason why he never should have made that tweet.)
I can kind of see why Mike felt the need to essentially forbid us to "argue" about this in any way here. There are already a couple posts I disagree with to varying degrees, but why bother replying to them? Won't matter anyways, since it's near impossible to change someone's mind in this type of discourse.
When the original incident happened, I missed the brief time window where it was allowed to talk about this topic, and reading through the posts after the fact left me with quite a bad feeling. There was so much more dissent in this community than I expected to arise from such a tweet. Quite shocking in its own right. But what bothered me most was the lack of love and support expressed for all the wonderful trans people in our community, like @Sarah Mancuso and @pmcrockett. So let me use this one post I get to make in this thread to tell you all: You rock! And I'm happy that you're part of this community! I hope you'll stick around in spite of what must at times seem like a disappointingly hostile climate. Change takes time, but I hope we'll get there eventually
.
I'm worried about this: when from one side or the other Christian is forced to sever ties with all the decent people he's been working with so far to limit the fallout... who will be left? Who will be the people that embrace him in spite of - or worse, because of - his statements, when he isn't able to speak in the sane circles anymore? This is exactly how radicalization can start. I don't consider him leaving Spitfire a "win" for anyone. I think it's a dangerous first step on what ultimately could be a string of poor choices. I sincerely hope he finds a way to turn around soon!
Also, I hate to be the "Will someone please think of the children?"-guy, but behind Christian there is a family, with real people and real struggles, and I can't possibly imagine how harmful it must be for a child to see their father in such a situation. This point is easy to forget if you know someone just as the face of a youtube channel and sample library company, but I think it's important to consider. This isn't just about him. Everything happening to him has consequences for other people as well. (And that's yet one more reason why he never should have made that tweet.)
I can kind of see why Mike felt the need to essentially forbid us to "argue" about this in any way here. There are already a couple posts I disagree with to varying degrees, but why bother replying to them? Won't matter anyways, since it's near impossible to change someone's mind in this type of discourse.
When the original incident happened, I missed the brief time window where it was allowed to talk about this topic, and reading through the posts after the fact left me with quite a bad feeling. There was so much more dissent in this community than I expected to arise from such a tweet. Quite shocking in its own right. But what bothered me most was the lack of love and support expressed for all the wonderful trans people in our community, like @Sarah Mancuso and @pmcrockett. So let me use this one post I get to make in this thread to tell you all: You rock! And I'm happy that you're part of this community! I hope you'll stick around in spite of what must at times seem like a disappointingly hostile climate. Change takes time, but I hope we'll get there eventually
.- Status
