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The Robber SSS (Spitfire Symphonic Strings)

ctsai89 said:
is that done by all VSL? vsl strings always sounds synthy to me and this was no exception :( Great work though!
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You've probably heard a lot of poor usage of VSL strings, then.
As for WhiteNoiz's rendition with VSL, it sounds like he's not really using the shorts available to his advantage. I've noticed this a lot with people using VSL libraries, where they don't really use the patches and keyswitches available to them, and it ends up sounding terrible in comparison when it can sound just as great as other libraries. This is assuming he's using VSL, which I'm not really sure about that.
 
Lotias said:
You've probably heard a lot of poor usage of VSL strings, then.
As for WhiteNoiz's rendition with VSL, it sounds like he's not really using the shorts available to his advantage. I've noticed this a lot with people using VSL libraries, where they don't really use the patches and keyswitches available to them, and it ends up sounding terrible in comparison when it can sound just as great as other libraries. This is assuming he's using VSL, which I'm not really sure about that.
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So are there any demoes on the actual Vsl site that sounded realistic? I have yet to find one but I remember holst's Jupiter sounded a bit more believable than the others. Still though, do you have any Vienna demoes that are good you know of you can show me? Pm me if u do
 
ctsai89 said:
So are there any demoes on the actual Vsl site that sounded realistic? I have yet to find one but I remember holst's Jupiter sounded a bit more believable than the others. Still though, do you have any Vienna demoes that are good you know of you can show me? Pm me if u do
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Any of the ones by Guy Bacos seem to be popular.
Another thing is that the people that made demos for VSL tend to put their instruments through the MIR reverb, which makes it sound less... cinematic, to say the least, but more imitates a realistic recording. So, they might just be sounding different than you expected.
 
Here's my quick rendition of The Robber with VSL Special Edition Vol. 1 (the full bundle).
https://instaud.io/D8G

Entirely VSL, including the built-in reverb options in Vienna Instruments. I used a mix of MIRx and algorithmic, depending on the instrument. Could probably use some refinement, especially considering there's no measured tremolo for those parts. Plus, still learning to work with this library.
 
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What a great thread! :)

The tightened-up Time Machine version is a BIG improvement for the Spitfire Strings. But I still hear a "musical intent" advantage for CSS. It's even more prominent in the legato example.

There's something about the phrasing of a melody constructed from samples where you can just tell the notes are collaged together and not connected by any real musical intent - even when there's plenty of dynamics crossfading... it's like when the GPS voice in your car reads instructions to you. All of the words are OK but they don't add up to the way a human would say a sentence.

Sure it might fool a director or a layperson but you know it's samples and you know a real orchestra would play it so much better.

CSS also feels more "together." It doesn't just achieve the "in the same room" effect but goes beyond to some kind of magical "the sounds blend like they WOULD in a room" effect. I first noticed that when I mocked up the Elgar Serenade this fall -



It's weird that I get that sense more from CSS despite it being a drier library. I guess the section sounds have been mixed to glue together very well.

Certainly Mural is a more versatile library in terms of its vibrato and overall tone. it's closer to a platonic ideal string sound. CSS is very specific and "characteristic," could sound quite wrong in some applications.


@Christof (or anyone else with SSS) if you are interested in mocking up a small piece of the Elgar with SSS to compare you can download the Logic and MIDI here.
 
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Here's a version of The Robber using VSL Dimension Strings 1 Full. I didn't have the correct measured trem in my template so I just used the normal trems:



Thanks @Christof for sharing your piece
 
ctsai89 said:
So are there any demoes on the actual Vsl site that sounded realistic? I have yet to find one but I remember holst's Jupiter sounded a bit more believable than the others. Still though, do you have any Vienna demoes that are good you know of you can show me? Pm me if u do
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I don't have time to mock up the robber but here's something I did with a similar, less cinematic feel (with chamber strings) - Let me know how synth-y it is :)

TBH I've noticed almost every post you make you have something negative to say about VSL. I just wanted to post something for the folks out there curious about VSL as I think I do a pretty good job with em:)

Back on topic - Lovely work Christof :) very informative
 
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SimonCharlesHanna said:
I don't have time to mock up the robber but here's something I did with a similar, less cinematic feel (with chamber strings) - Let me know how synth-y it is :)

TBH I've noticed almost every post you make you have something negative to say about VSL. I just wanted to post something for the folks out there curious about VSL as I think I do a pretty good job with em:)

Back on topic - Lovely work Christof :) very informative
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high strings are fine but the Cello/viola's mid range (around C3~G4 is really really synthy no matter which VSL string libraries i listen to. It's not a matter of attack or whatever but just the tone and is super unacceptably synth
 
Lotias said:
Here's my quick rendition of The Robber with VSL Special Edition Vol. 1 (the full bundle).
https://instaud.io/D8G

Entirely VSL, including the built-in reverb options in Vienna Instruments. I used a mix of MIRx and algorithmic, depending on the instrument. Could probably use some refinement, especially considering there's no measured tremolo for those parts. Plus, still learning to work with this library.
Click to expand...

THe cello's tone just lacks warmth. Violins are fine but the cello/viola is atrociously synthy especially the mid range. Especially when they legato C#3 D# E F# G#
 
Christof said:
Sure, here is the basic MIDI, have fun!
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Thanks, I tried to put some effort into it. So, here's the version with Spitfire Chamber Strings.



Comparing all the versions, I probably like SCS the most in terms of sound, but after working with the piece, I would imagine to appreciate the flexibility and ease of use of CSS a great deal.

In terms of mics, I made a version with custom CTA (-6dB/-0dB/-12dB) and another with alt mics (CR, St) for fun. I would offer different mic mixes, if anybody is interested. Had to cheat a bit with the measured tremolos, they seem much more versatile in CSS. Also, I used multiple stretch values in the Time Machine patches throughout the piece and used Bartok Pizz instead of col legno to match the sound a bit more.
 
Scamper said:
Thanks, I tried to put some effort into it. So, here's the version with Spitfire Chamber Strings.



Comparing all the versions, I probably like SCS the most in terms of sound, but after working with the piece, I would imagine to appreciate the flexibility and ease of use of CSS a great deal.

In terms of mics, I made a version with custom CTA (-6dB/-0dB/-12dB) and another with alt mics (CR, St) for fun. I would offer different mic mixes, if anybody is interested. Had to cheat a bit with the measured tremolos, they seem much more versatile in CSS. Also, I used multiple stretch values in the Time Machine patches throughout the piece and used Bartok Pizz instead of col legno to match the sound a bit more.
Click to expand...


THIS... is the definition of realistic sounding string library. Sorry, Vienna folks.
 
@Christof - would you be able to post a version of 'Drama' with CSS with the vibrato backed off? I understand the piece is meant to be full and emotional but I'm curious if CSS can perform convincingly in situations where less (or no) vibrato is required. Can you comment on this? On the transition between non-vib and vib? How does CSS fare?

Many thanks
 
ctsai89 said:
THe cello's tone just lacks warmth. Violins are fine but the cello/viola is atrociously synthy especially the mid range. Especially when they legato C#3 D# E F# G#
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They don't legato, in fact I used no legato patches. The real problem is probably that I left the release too long on most of the instruments and didn't bother to adjust it.
As for the cellos lacking warmth, I don't really hear it. It's just got different sounding spiccato.
 
WhiteNoiz said:
Am I the only one itching for a VSL version of The Robber? :grin:

Anyway, here's my version:
https://clyp.it/wg15nnt3?token=6ac84feee5900162e80f399b0b6495cd

Hopefully Hans and TBerg are happier now. May their holy spirits bless me. :roflmao: Thanks for the exercise, Christof. :inlove:
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Sounds very very synthy and unrealistic, I was surprised to hear a full orchestration which doesen't work either for this piece, but it is a good exercise as you say.
I am sure you can get out much more from VSL that that!
 
brett said:
@Christof - would you be able to post a version of 'Drama' with CSS with the vibrato backed off? I understand the piece is meant to be full and emotional but I'm curious if CSS can perform convincingly in situations where less (or no) vibrato is required. Can you comment on this? On the transition between non-vib and vib? How does CSS fare?

Many thanks
Click to expand...
Maybe later today
 
NoamL said:
What a great thread! :)

The tightened-up Time Machine version is a BIG improvement for the Spitfire Strings. But I still hear a "musical intent" advantage for CSS. It's even more prominent in the legato example.

There's something about the phrasing of a melody constructed from samples where you can just tell the notes are collaged together and not connected by any real musical intent - even when there's plenty of dynamics crossfading... it's like when the GPS voice in your car reads instructions to you. All of the words are OK but they don't add up to the way a human would say a sentence.

Sure it might fool a director or a layperson but you know it's samples and you know a real orchestra would play it so much better.

CSS also feels more "together." It doesn't just achieve the "in the same room" effect but goes beyond to some kind of magical "the sounds blend like they WOULD in a room" effect. I first noticed that when I mocked up the Elgar Serenade this fall -



It's weird that I get that sense more from CSS despite it being a drier library. I guess the section sounds have been mixed to glue together very well.

Certainly Mural is a more versatile library in terms of its vibrato and overall tone. it's closer to a platonic ideal string sound. CSS is very specific and "characteristic," could sound quite wrong in some applications.


@Christof (or anyone else with SSS) if you are interested in mocking up a small piece of the Elgar with SSS to compare you can download the Logic and MIDI here.
Click to expand...


Here's the Elgar with SSS. I basically just took your midi and dumped it in SSS, I started tweaking then realized your programming was really awesome so just let it go. The dynamic layers don't match exactly with CSS but you get the idea.

This is with C and T mics:

 
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