The Robber SSS (Spitfire Symphonic Strings)

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Christof, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Christof

    Christof Senior Member

    Jul 23, 2011
    Here is my version of my piece The Robber using Spitfire Symphonic Strings (SSS) only, below is the version using Cinematic Studio Strings CSS) only.

    Here is the SSS version with Time Machine patches, this is much crispier and clearer:

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  2. Daniel F.

    Daniel F. Member

    Oct 20, 2016
    Both sound very good and I was actually surprised to like the SSS version the same or even more for this track. It could be because I find CSS too dry in your demo imo. You hear that both have their strengths and weaknesses and they each do their own thing. Also there's a volume difference I think.

    Did you only use one mic for SSS or a mix of multiple?
  3. AlexanderSchiborr

    AlexanderSchiborr Senior Member

    May 1, 2014
    For me personally CSS wins here on all levels and that is not because I have CSS, the shorts have more bite, more crisp and they sit and blend somehow better together. They have also more detail but sure this because of the smaller ensemble sizes and less wet room, but this is exactly what contributes to a live feeling. Sure it may be a matter of taste in the end.
    NathanTiemeyer and Quodlibet like this.
  4. NoamL

    NoamL Winter <3

    Jul 6, 2015
    Los Angeles
    I like the fast cello & violin runs in Mural a lot more - that was the one unrealistic bit in the CSS version, probably because CSS doesn't have a purposely recorded run articulation. There is too much bite and not enough blur in each individual note of the CSS "runs" & it doesn't sound very real to me.

    But other than that, I think the CSS version is better in every way. It has a more dramatic dynamic range and there just seems to be more musical intention behind each note. I know that's unquantifiable... hmm. If I were in a string orchestra playing this piece I'd be excited to be playing a showpiece with so many dramatic twists and turns. I hear that musicality, excitement and dramatic flair in the CSS version while the Mural version just feels ... flat.

    Things get particularly clunky at 0:43 in the Mural version which was actually my favorite part of the CSS version. In the CSS version the music is moving to a new level of flurrying, virtuosic activity, but there's still detail and precision. With the Mural version, listening critically you can hear that the short notes kind of get swallowed up in the texture.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    FinGael likes this.
  5. OP

    Christof Senior Member

    Jul 23, 2011
    I agree with all of you, CSS is more brilliant and crispy, SSS has more warmth and AIR ;)
    I had to edit a lot for the SSS version, especially dynamics.
    The part at 0:43 didn't sound convincing so I had to change the patches, it is more blurry now which is fine as well.
    For me it was very interesting to learn how the music, mood and the character changes by just using a different library.
    I think both are very different but equal.
  6. Jimmy Hellfire

    Jimmy Hellfire Senior Member

    Jun 28, 2015
    Once again: such a cool piece of music.

    The CSS version just sounds right. Like Alexander said, the bite, crisp attack and detailed texture make the difference. SSS sounds silky and beautiful in its own right, but for this kind of piece, CSS is just the ideal library.
    Polarity likes this.
  7. OP

    Christof Senior Member

    Jul 23, 2011
    I agree, for this piece, yes.
    I am starting a piece using SSS performance legato patches now, they sound wonderful.
    chrysshawk, Saxer and Kaufmanmoon like this.
  8. artmuz

    artmuz Active Member

    Dec 22, 2015
    I do agree with Alexander and also think that the piece brings to attention the part of CSS which excells (there are also many things I don't like in CSS). I also immediately recall my Bartok scores...
    Having recorded a lot of orchestral music in concert halls I would not be too happy at the ending of the piece with SSS. Our concert halls do not blurry things as here (unless the hall is empty!)
  9. luke_7

    luke_7 Member

    Nov 25, 2013
    Christof this is fantastic comparison between libraries and of course beautiful music as always. I'm surprise how SSS are behind CSS. In every aspect CSS sounds better. I would love to hear this between BS and SSS. If You do some legato type test please share with us.
  10. TGV

    TGV Senior Member

    Aug 9, 2010
    Nice work, and a very useful comparison. A true service to the community. CSS does sound a bit better, especially in the softer passages, for me, but then I've always thought that Mural lacked bite (only got Vol. 1). On the other hand, the dynamic range of CSS seems a bit more restricted, and it sounds a tad more nasal.

    Thanks for doing this.
    SoNowWhat? likes this.
  11. jamwerks

    jamwerks Senior Member

    Mar 21, 2010
    Nice piece, and thanks for putting these up! Please tell us which mic's were used in each example, that's really essential info imo. And modifying mic usage can change greatly the sound and in these "shoot-outs" even reverse the "results".

    Both sound very good to me. The fast legato work great (we've come a long way in the last several years in that department). I don't yet have CSS, but it seems to have even shorter shorts, which in this piece seem to have worked.

    In the SSS vesion, do you use "RT" on the shorts? That may have worked here.

    Reminds my why we need to have several libraries for each section, as each adapts itself better to specific musical situations...
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  12. Daniel F.

    Daniel F. Member

    Oct 20, 2016
    I would guess mix for CSS and I think he said SSS used T and C both at max volume.
  13. jononotbono

    jononotbono Luke Johnson

    Amazing and thanks for the comparison! Great piece of music! How long did it take to write with Samples (including all the tweaking). Really interested in hearing about how to you went about doing something like this. Did you write it on paper first and then into a DAW or play it straight into a DAW etc?

    Also, I was wondering to give the Shorts more bite in SSS, couldn't the time machine patch be used to shorten the shorts to a point of giving them the sound of fast attacks?

    Thanks again! You're music is amazing!
  14. OP

    Christof Senior Member

    Jul 23, 2011
    @jononotbono :
    Mostly I write straight into Logic, I'm not the pen/paper guy.
    I can't remember exactly how long it took, but probably one day for sure.

    Good idea using the time machine shorts, maybe I will give it a try later.
  15. jononotbono

    jononotbono Luke Johnson

    You have some mad skills man! Amazing! Would love to get to this point with String writing. I find it incredibly hard writing really fast string runs because although I constantly practise playing scales on Piano to get dexterity, my fingers just aren't fast enough yet. Everytime I draw notes in or use the Step input, I get that dreaded quantise feel/sound.

    Would love to hear your piece with the Time Machine Patch on shorts as you can make the notes (I only have SCS not SSS) so unrealistically short or unrealistically Long in length that they could help?
    JH likes this.
  16. markd

    markd New Member

    Here's what I do for SSS passages like this:

    I use the time machine short note patches and assign CC3 to the Stretch parameter. That way I can vary the sharpness and mushiness of the notes easily.

    For the mics, I use:

    C -6db
    A 0DB
    O -6DB
    jamwerks likes this.
  17. Polarity

    Polarity Senior Member

    I Agree, CSS sounds more ideal for a piece of this kind, it needs more crispiness from the shorts.
    For what I hear the SSS Tremolos at the end sound good anyway to me.
    @Cristof, did you use the xxxbpm Tremolos or the unmeasured ones of SSS?
  18. Polarity

    Polarity Senior Member

    at 0:43 CSS wins forever and ever, there's no match.
    Thank you for this very interesting compare...
    I'll await the TM short version and perhaps to listen to a demo of the track you are writing with the SSS Perfomance Legato patch...
  19. OP

    Christof Senior Member

    Jul 23, 2011
    I added the TM version above...
    jononotbono likes this.
  20. jononotbono

    jononotbono Luke Johnson

    It's changed it completely! Wow! So which to buy? BOTH! ;)

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