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Your favorite MIDI orchestration tip

Thanks Eloy and cmillar for your comments! I am glad you found something of value in the interview.

Best,
Jerry

p.s. CD Baby is no longer in the business of selling CDs, so I am in the process of trying to figure out how to sell my albums. If you are interested in purchasing one with a "VI Forum Discount", please contact me directly.
 
Here's a tip when orchestrating for 3 trumpets:

If you're writing a passage where 3 trumpets are playing the same line do the following:

1. Detune the 2 of the trumpets about 5 cents up and down. You can use either the pitch wheel or RPN tuning to achieve that. Let's assume you're using the pitch wheel:


Interval Pitch Wheel Value (+ or -) Cents


Whole step 8192 = 200 cents

Half step 4096 = 100 cents

Quarter step 2048 = 50 cents

Eighth step 1024 = 25 cents

16th step 512 = 12.5 cents

32nd step 256 = 6.25 cents

64th step 128 = 3.125 cents


In the event list insert the pitch wheel command either at the beginning of a track or at the point in the track where you want some detuning. Do this for two tracks, one trumpet a bit higher, one a bit lower. I usually use values of 128 or 256, which corresponds to 3.125 or 6.25 cents.

Next, stagger those same two tracks so that the passage that is monophonic has one trumpet playing slightly early and one slightly late. I usually move each trumpet 8 or 10 ticks in both directions.

That's it! Now you'll have a chorus effect sounding more like 3 instruments playing and you'll also avoid any phase cancellation. Of course, if you are using samples of 3 trumpets in the first place you don't need to do this.
 
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Here's another tip when sequencing:

Always make sure that any cc data and patch changes that you want to effect a passage are placed a few ticks BEFORE the note you want to effect. For example, let's say you want a patch change and a cc change before the note G#4, do this:

Measure Beat Tick

m22 b2 t240 Patch change
m22 b2 t241 cc change
m22 b2 t242 g# note

By doing this, you'll ensure that the note actually is impacted by the midi data. If you put the above MIDI data all on the same tick, it's often the case that the patch and cc data will miss the note where you want the alteration to start.
 
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Heres my own tip.

The better melody you have, the more beautiful piece of music you have created, the less motion and instruments etc. in there. Then on the other hand, the crappier piece you have made, the more movement and noise there to cover it.
 
PeterN said:
Heres my own tip.

The better melody you have, the more beautiful piece of music you have created, the less motion and instruments etc. in there. Then on the other hand, the crappier piece you have made, the more movement and noise there to cover it.
Click to expand...

Can't agree with this... or at least the latter half of it- crap content is only ever going to be crap no matter how much you try to dress it up... sadly there's a hell of a lot of published junk out there already that never should have graced our ears. Quality content is far more important to nail before any instrumentation/production. Period.
 
PeterN said:
Heres my own tip.

The better melody you have, the more beautiful piece of music you have created, the less motion and instruments etc. in there. Then on the other hand, the crappier piece you have made, the more movement and noise there to cover it.
Click to expand...
So John Powell, Ravel, Debussy have nothing to say?
 
If you get 3 critics this fast it must be true or very near truth.

Anwyay, no intention to disturb a good thread, if it messes the thread, mod just pls delete.
 
PeterN said:
If you get 3 critics this fast it must be true or very near truth.

Anwyay, no intention to disturb a good thread, if it messes the thread, mod just pls delete.
Click to expand...
If it was accurate no one would object.
But it is a personal opinion that is not verified, in many instances.
Good melodies still need much consideration on how to best orchestrate around them, and piling up more stuff on the top of something bad is not going to help either...
 
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jsg said:
If you're writing a passage where 3 trumpets are playing the same line do the following:

1. Detune the 2 of the trumpets about 5 cents up and down. You can use either the pitch wheel or RPN tuning to achieve that. Let's assume you're using the pitch wheel:
Click to expand...

You could use trumpets from different libraries, when you think about it all musicians that play in an orchestra have different makes of the same instrument if that makes sence
 
Patrick de Caumette said:
If it was accurate no one would object.
But none of it is true.
Good melodies still need much consideration on how to best orchestrate around them
Click to expand...

Yea, well, I disagree on this and I believe this is incorrect. Heres my correction of your quote.

Patrick: Good melodies still need much consideration on how to best orchestrate around them
Peter: Good melodies need much consideration on how to avoid orchestration around them.

See, I have something to say.
 
PeterN said:
Yea, well, I disagree on this and I believe this is incorrect. Heres my correction of your quote.

Patrick: Good melodies still need much consideration on how to best orchestrate around them
Peter: Good melodies need much consideration on how to avoid orchestration around them.

See, I have something to say.
Click to expand...
I was teasing you.
To go along with your statement, a good melody makes working with it easier than the alternative.
It may also require nothing else, if such is your fancy.

But i certainly do not agree with your original statement, that the stronger the melody " the less motion and instruments etc. in there"
That is a very personal statement, and not a principle.
Can you picture how many great melodies have been developed into pieces that include plenty of motion and a large group of instruments?!
 
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This relates to midi, however my tip is more of a post production process: don't be afraid to re-import your midi instruments back into your session as audio files for further manipulation. After all, they are samples of real instruments in the end- no matter how you implemented and controlled their performance. I always re-import everything orchestral back into my session and further invigorate the performance- whether using tape delay, (ALAN MEYERSON tip of the day) or Brauer motion to add more movement overall.
 
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Cathbad said:
Here's a small one that I hope will save you many Homer Simpson moments.

Make sure the MIDI you're editing is indeed from the track you've soloed and have playing...
Click to expand...

Usually happens to me when I'm editing the VST - no the MIDI :(
 
You can do a fake re-bow with most strings sustain/legato patches by adding a quick steep "mountain peak" CC1 curve like so:

Faux Rebow.PNG

The results differ per strings library of course, and it doesn't quite sound like a re-bow, but in a mix it certainly can give the appearance of there being two repeated notes instead of one sustained note.
 
Paul Owen said:
I think I know what you mean...could you explain a little more please?
Click to expand...

Sure. But it depends on musical style. It wont work with rock music as an example. I havent tried it, but I doubt it.

If you have piece of floating style symphony music, we could say, for example, Beethovens Moonlight sonata in chamber setting. And no percussion keeping a steady pace, a pizzicato bass can be ok, you can randomly alter the tempo and check where you make a perfect hit. This is similar to flipping a random note in the piano roll sequencer, or trying random midi notes (in piano roll) on a ready composition, or even by mistake, and then find some brilliant ingredient. You get it, sometimes when you hit the wrong key, it was the right one. Same can go for tempo.
 
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