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Using MIR Pro 3D in Cubase

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Sasha Kindel

New Member
I just installed MIR Pro 3D and one of the room packs, and am trying to figure out how to start using it in an existing Cubase project. I'm looking at this page of the manual: https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro-3d/cubase-nuendo

This is equivalent to the channel strip image shown there, right?
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And the box with "L13" in it is what it means by "panner display at the top"? When I right click on that, I get this:
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I assume when the manual says "select 'Vienna MIR Pro'" it means that "Vienna MIR Pro" should appear in that menu in the section with "Stereo Combined Panner" and "Stereo Balance Panner," and the fact that it doesn't means the instructions presuppose the reader has done something else first that I haven't done.

I'm not sure what it means when it says "MIR Pro 3D’s active Venue." As far as I can tell, Cubase doesn't yet know that MIR Pro 3D exists, so I haven't had a chance to select a venue in the context of this project. I tried opening Vienna MIR Pro 3D from my Windows start menu and selecting a venue there in case the DAW is expected to communicate with a standalone instance, but apparently not.

It also occurred to me that the wording of the part about channel strips could be taken to apply only to virtual instruments from Vienna Instruments, not ones from third parties, but I have a SYNCHRON-ized harp in the project, and "Vienna MIR Pro" wasn't a panner option for that channel either.

What am I missing?
Click to read more...
 
The problem here is you are in stereo. AFAIK, MIR 3D Pro can only be used as a panner in Cubase if you have a surround project. In a stereo setup like this, you have to use it as an insert. Or you can go through a tutorial to enable your Cubase project for Atmos, and then MIR 3D Pro should appear in the list of surround panners.
 
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Okay, I have instruments in MIR and working now. A couple followup questions:

One, do the volume and pan settings here apply to the signal before it gets to MIR, or does MIR override these entirely?
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Two, I think I'm going to want to work without MIR most of the time, and only enable it when I do balance work and when I render things to audio, so I can hear the details better and to conserve processing power. I've been getting instruments into MIR by adding it to this Inserts list under Channel Settings one track at a time, but is there a way to turn MIR on and off for all instruments at once?
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Sasha Kindel said:
Okay, I have instruments in MIR and working now. A couple followup questions:

One, do the volume and pan settings here apply to the signal before it gets to MIR, or does MIR override these entirely?
Click to expand...
If you add MIR as a pre-fader insert, the volume setting (fader) should apply after it goes to MIR. If you add MIR as a post-fader insert, the volume setting (fader) should apply before it goes to MIR. Panning is always the last step in the signal chain, so the panner will always affect the signal already processed by MIR. Therefore, you'll want to make sure you leave Cubase center panned if you don't want it to mess up MIR's positioning. That's one reason to work in surround - then you can use the MIR panner and you don't have to worry about accidentally changing MIR's panning with the Cubase panner.


Sasha Kindel said:
Two, I think I'm going to want to work without MIR most of the time, and only enable it when I do balance work and when I render things to audio, so I can hear the details better and to conserve processing power. I've been getting instruments into MIR by adding it to this Inserts list under Channel Settings one track at a time, but is there a way to turn MIR on and off for all instruments at once?
Click to expand...
MIR has a bypass option that lets you bypass the MIR processing for a specific instrument. You can easily do that in the main MIR interface, it should be pretty quick in there to bypass them all easily. If you're concerned about processing power, you might consider the GPU audio extension for MIR to offload this processing to your GPU, if your graphics card is supported.
 
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Hi,

Apologies to bump this thread, but I'm having a nightmare trying to get this to work in cubase 13.

When I put an instance of Mir on, it is mute. If I press the bypass button, audio comes through.
I've tried it on audio only and kontakt tracks.

Also, when I press the button as highlighted in the picture, nothing happens. I've seen tutorials of when they press it, it takes them to the room settings. Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks
 

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MIR 3D Pro opens a completely separate program when you add it as an insert plugin, separate from the main Cubase window, where you have to choose a venue and things like that. Did you notice that window and do that part?
 
Hi Michael, thanks for your reply. I checked that, and the separate window does not open.

I'm trialling Mir on 30 days, and really want to buy it, but it seems so complicated to use, on Cubase at least and there are no good tutorials getting this set up in Cubase that I can find.
 
I would suggest contacting VSL support by email.

It isn't complicated to use, really. It works mostly like a regular reverb insert plugin except the UI is in a separate window/application that automatically opens. I'm not sure why it's not appearing for you - VSL support might know. What are your system specs?
 
@Mark Stothard: Please write to [email protected], including the Vienna Assistant's "System Report". VSL's support team should be able to sort out your issue quickly. - As others wrote: From your DAW's POV, MIR 3D is "just" another plug-in that happens to share a common main GUI across all instances.

VSL_VASystemReport.png
 
mducharme said:
I would suggest contacting VSL support by email.

It isn't complicated to use, really. It works mostly like a regular reverb insert plugin except the UI is in a separate window/application that automatically opens. I'm not sure why it's not appearing for you - VSL support might know. What are your system specs?
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Thanks again Michael, really appreciate it. I haven't got the fullspecs to hand yet, the PC is only 2 years old running windows 10 with 128gb memory and a Ryzen 9 3950X processor.
 
I'm trying out this system right now in Reaper and I have to say I find the fact that it opens a separate application to be a real problem for my workflow. I don't quite understand why it can't open up in the DAW like Virtual Sound Stage 2, which essentially does the same thing (which is apparently abandonware). While MIR seems to be impulse response based, I think I can get similar results with the free version of panagement.

What is VSL's reasoning for making it a separate app with VST3 components rather than a full-on VST?
 
I don't know, you'll have to ask them that.

I've used apps that use the other way like EAReverb 2 and 2C PBJ and I like the current way much better than my experience with those apps. If I need to access the MIR settings, it couldn't be easier, the icon is right there on my taskbar and I just click it and I'm there, regardless of what I'm doing in Cubase at the time. So, I can always get to the MIR settings faster than I can the settings for any other plugin, because it's a large button on the Windows taskbar instead of a tiny control that appears in Cubase when I select the track first.
 
I think part of the idea is that MIR shows you where the instruments (tracks) are in relation to each other spatially.
 
@robgb : The original idea of MIR was a holistic, object-oriented approach to orchestral mixing. It tries to put the user in the positions of a conductor and his/her recording engineer who come to a world-class hall, set up the mics and ask the musicians to take their assigned positions on the stage. Reverb is part of the equation, but not its only task. MIR takes care for the positions of both the sources, the listener and their spatial relation to each other (i.e. "panning"). It takes care for volume, width, height, rotation, and of course many finer aspects like directivity, timbre, the mix of spot mic and main mics, as well as all typical mixing tasks (mute, solo, grouping) and preset management on a higher level.

MIR's main GUI was the virtual representation of this hall (a.k.a. "Venue") as the sole spot to control all this tasks without losing the "big picture" out of sight. As a matter of fact, the very first version of Vienna MIR was a stand-alone application, and it was marketed as "alternative mixing front end". Of course we can use MIR as a seemingly "ordinary" plug-in these days, but the underlying concept didn't change - thus the common main GUI for all instances.

Most of MIR's users either have this main GUI opened maximizsed on a dedicated screen all the time, or they simply Alt-Tab between the DAW and this window. They don't even touch the humble GUI of the actual plug-in after it has been inserted.

robgb said:
I don't quite understand why it can't open up in the DAW like Virtual Sound Stage 2, which essentially does the same thing (which is apparently abandonware).
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Virtual Sound Stage was the attempt to rip the obvious parts MIR's concept (up to a degree that it even mimicked its Venues' graphics :-D ) without the underlying technique. Hard to compare the two apart from their visual similarities.

robgb said:
While MIR seems to be impulse response based, I think I can get similar results with the free version of panagement.
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If this is your conclusion, it might very well be that you actually don't need MIR, really. :) No need to overcomplicate things for trivial tasks.
 
Dietz said:
@robgb : The original idea of MIR was a holistic, object-oriented approach to orchestral mixing.
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Thanks for the explanation. Still doesn't make much sense to me in terms of efficiency and workflow. Especially since it strikes me as more or less an impulse response plugin with added spatial features, which, of course can be accomplished in other ways. But to each his own.
 
robgb said:
Especially since it strikes me as more or less an impulse response plugin with added spatial features
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No, that's not what it is. :) MIR is based on spatial IRs, hence the name "Multi Impulse Response". There are 5000 and more individual IRs that make for one single Venue. The "added spatial features" are the core of the engine that's completely based on Ambisonics (3rd oder).

Here's a little primer that sums up the concepts. I wrote it for legacy MIR Pro, but the underlying ideas didn't change:

-> Think MIR!
 
Dietz said:
No, that's not what it is. :) MIR is based on spatial IRs, hence the name "Multi Impulse Response". There are 5000 and more individual IRs that make for one single Venue.
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Interesting. Yet, I can't really hear the difference, so I guess it's wasted on a pleb like me. Like I said, to each his own.
 
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