Pier
kiffaudio.com
What issues? Can you give some examples?
Trying to Decide between a new PC or Mac M2
- Thread starter José Herring
- Start date
- Watchers 66
Pier
kiffaudio.com
I've always heard this too.
I switched to Cubase 12 when it was released and used it on Windows (3700X, 1070, 16GB RAM, NVME). The performance was good but I had some issues which were mostly ironed out by Steinberg with updates.
Recently I switched to an M2 MBP and I've found it runs way better in native mode than it ever did on Windows. Everything is much smoother and faster.
I can't say if this is a general trend but that has been my experience.
Last edited:
You've helped on some of them here! I'll list them when I have more time today or tomorrow.
I'd love to try it in Native mode...will try on new projects that don't have any VST2s in them when I'm done with these current jobs. It's fine in Rosetta 2, about the same as in Windows.
antoniopandrade
Senior Member
This is fantastic. I'm excited to pair down my operation to less, more powerful, more efficient computers, and what Apple is doing with the M1/M2s are certainly a step in the right direction. Looking forward to how that landscape will look like a few years from now.
Also, something worth thinking about before going to an M1 or M2 Mac: More than a few plugin manufacturers still haven't written native Silicon plugins. Most of them will work but you won't be able to use them in apps that are all Silicon. So in Cubase for example, if you went with Silicon instead of Rosetta 2 when you run it you would lose all of those plugins and also wouldn't be able to use any VST2s. It's unfortunate that it's still taking this long for many plugin makers, but it is what it is. I can't run Cubase in native Silicon mode yet because of that, so I can't use the full power of the M2 Ultra -- it's far more powerful than what I had (in signature) but not as much as I had hoped.
My understanding is that Cubase will run VST3 plug-ins in native mode on AS Macs. If you want to use VST 2 plug-ins, my suggestion is to put them in another host, ideally Vienna Ensemble Pro but you can also use audio loopback.
Pier
kiffaudio.com
Yeah this is something to consider before moving to Apple Silicon.
Personally all the stuff I use is running natively in VST3. Even when I was using Windows I don't remember the last time I used a VST2 plugin.
It's been over two years since Apple released the M1 Mac Mini devkits. All the serious devs (FabFilter, U-He, Arturia, Synapse, KiloHearts, NI, Eventide, etc) have already released their native versions or are about to (eg: VEPro).
I left Logic like 10 years ago because I didn't want my tools to tie me to a platform. IMO if some dev is not fully supporting both macOS and Windows I'd rather not use their products.
That's what I thought, but then Cubase blacklists a few VST3s from manufacturers like Kush and a few others that I use a lot, including VE Pro plugins to connect to VE Pro! Not sure why. Any ideas?
Last edited:
David Kudell
Senior Member
Out of all my plugins, the two you mentioned are the only two not Silicon native yet. VEPro is in beta already. Kush hasn’t said anything and I’ve Jjust moved on. Oh, the other one is Neural DSP Archetype Gojira, and that is next on their list to convert.
Eulenauge66
Member
VEP is way behind and there is no communication. I would never buy a product from that company any more, except VEP. The latter is unfortunately necessary, since there is no similar software out there. It's the only piece of software preventing me from switching to silicon native with Cubase.
Pier
kiffaudio.com
kgdrum
Making a mess & calling it Art is where it’s at!
Yeah Kush is a very small company and Greg aka UBK has been recuperating from back surgery the last several months. From my understanding he doesn’t do the coding for the Kush products it’s outsourced so he’s had some delays having to deal w/ updating the products & these health issues. Reportedly he’s doing better and I’m confident his product line will be updated ASAP.
He’s an extremely talented,passionate developer that’s unfortunately had to deal with some major health/life issues as well as try to run a small company.
No idea why, but audio loopback - feeding the sound output of one program on the local computer into another - is pretty easy to do. My Metric Halo audio interface can do that using its own mixer, I'm 99% sure RME interfaces can still do that, etc.
If not there are several programs. I got a demo of one at NAMM that looked good: www.audiomovers.com. There's also Rogue Amoeba loopback, and I'm sure there are other ways of doing it.
Inter-application MIDI is built in to Core MIDI, so that's not an issue.
b_elliott
A work in progress.
I recently used the iMac that is available in our local public library's media lab.
First time I had used a Mac in over 35 years. I found it surprisingly easy to navigate -- including getting some minor stuff happening with Logic Pro. Mac has really smoothed out the UI so even a dumbsh*t (moi) can use it.
In looking to pick up a Mac I found 17" MBP around $3300 Cad. Right screen size for my eyesight, too pricey for my wallet.
Now per a Y-tube review (earlier in this thread) Mac mini seems to be a more reasonable music machine, although it is close to $2Gs here in Can and that is without a monitor/kbd/mouse.
Local Apple geeks suggest I buy refurbished M2 Mac mini thru Apple direct to get what I need instead of what is available at local box stores....
kgdrum
Making a mess & calling it Art is where it’s at!
For what we do and how most people generally use Macs for DAW use I wouldn’t consider the M2 Mac mini. If it’s a Mini it would be the MM Pro,once you add a monitor the price will be too close for comfort to the M2 MBP.
While they are capable machines I think the limitations with connectivity(only 1 Thunderbolt port) and ram would make me want to save up a bit more money to make a better long term investment especially since these can’t be modified.There’s a reason most people here are going with some kind of Mac Studio, it’s not an inexpensive purchase but it’s a powerful computer and it can be configured to work and meet most users expectations.
Myself I’m torn between a M2 Studio and a M2 MPro(I use UAD cards) but the reality currently with my lack of available
I will probably wait for the M3’s to start coming out and grab a discounted M2 or bite the bullet and go for some kind of M3.
Last edited:
vitocorleone123
Senior Member
I don’t find MacOS any better or worse overall. Just different. Some things better, some worse. For some people, those are the key things that matter. But not for everyone.
EDIT: Wow. That was a totally vague and almost useless post! An example of something that may matter to musicians and related is how there's no drivers for audio interfaces like Windows requires. While that may mean less efficiency can be wrung out on MacOS vs. Windows (e.g., latency), since most companies don't bother and/or use standards anyway, requiring a driver is just an extra point of potential failure.
While I use both an MBP and a homebuilt PC almost every day, I generally make music on PCs (but have on an MBP and definitely on iOS) and always have. Up until the last couple years there were hassles every once in awhile. Of course, Apple makes hassles for its customers as well, but more as an intentional let's-do-things-to-make-as-much-cash-as-possible way. As Win10 reached maturity (i.e., Win11 was coming) I'd say pretty much it's all evened out and requires no thinking or active maintenance.
Last edited:
It's wild how different people's experiences can be. For me Windows was great for a long time -- though not without its issues -- and over the past 5 months or so I started to have problems that couldn't be rectified, even with a fresh OS install, and was tired of playing tech. So I want back to Mac and found the process to be highly frustrating at first with so many issues I had to work through. Now that that's finally almost over I'm loving it. Though, I do prefer Windows OS in some ways, just as I prefer Mac OS in some ways, exactly as you say. Personally I like the fastest way to do things as intuitively as possible and to have the least possible amount of animations/big UI graphics...and both are good and bad in individual ways with that.
Last edited:
handz
Senior Member
OK so then it is even easier - PC.
Eulenauge66
Member
As promised, a quick post about my fresh PC built versus my 1 year old Mac Studio M1 Max.
I built a i7 13700k with 64GB DDR5 (I'll upgrade to 128GB later) and 2 x 2TB M2. I still had a power adapter and graphics card from a former PC. Whole thing cost me 1100,-€.
The machine is about 60% faster than the Mac. Cubase is starting faster at this rate, same goes for loading projects and bouncing. Virtual instruments are loading so fast that I got rid of VEP; my big orchestral template is all disabled/enabled tracks now, and it works great. Again: Bouncing! A big song took about 6min to render; now at about 2min.
I built it as a backup machine (I have so many tight deadlines, and I am always afraid of hardware failure). But now it will be my main audio computer (truly Cubase only; nothing else on it). My Mac Studio will be the backup, plus office and video.
Windows 11 is in no way inferior to Mac OS, I found. I wouldn't change from Mac outside the audio world, though. The Apple eco system is great. I've had the Android/PC/Apple mixture in the past and I can't recommend it.
The price difference is massive. Let's see if I have to invest time and working hours into fixing PC problems; but I had some issues with Mac as well. I would carefully estimate that my new PC has about the power of an M2 Ultra of around 6000 - 8000,-€. Correct me if I am daydreaming here.
I built a i7 13700k with 64GB DDR5 (I'll upgrade to 128GB later) and 2 x 2TB M2. I still had a power adapter and graphics card from a former PC. Whole thing cost me 1100,-€.
The machine is about 60% faster than the Mac. Cubase is starting faster at this rate, same goes for loading projects and bouncing. Virtual instruments are loading so fast that I got rid of VEP; my big orchestral template is all disabled/enabled tracks now, and it works great. Again: Bouncing! A big song took about 6min to render; now at about 2min.
I built it as a backup machine (I have so many tight deadlines, and I am always afraid of hardware failure). But now it will be my main audio computer (truly Cubase only; nothing else on it). My Mac Studio will be the backup, plus office and video.
Windows 11 is in no way inferior to Mac OS, I found. I wouldn't change from Mac outside the audio world, though. The Apple eco system is great. I've had the Android/PC/Apple mixture in the past and I can't recommend it.
The price difference is massive. Let's see if I have to invest time and working hours into fixing PC problems; but I had some issues with Mac as well. I would carefully estimate that my new PC has about the power of an M2 Ultra of around 6000 - 8000,-€. Correct me if I am daydreaming here.
