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The most blatant case of plagiarism you will ever see. Gotta hear it to believe it.

Either which way, this can not stand. It's one thing to write something really close; it's another to copy someone's work directly. But using an actual recording of someone else's work is on a whole other level.

Cheers.

I think i already mentioned something about this a while back on this site but this kind of thing certainly isn't new. The song below is built on a riff i played on the first Cirque du Soleil record from 1987. Around 2001 my 11 year old son asked me to buy him a Limp Bizkit record and i kept hearing this riff that sounded awfully familiar. Turned out they blatently sampled the first 8 bars of the Cirque vinyl and built a track from it. I checked the credits and nothing was mentioned about Cirque du Soleil or René Dupéré the composer... I called up René and Limp Bizkit settled with Le Cirque...Pretty crazy when you think how popular this band was at the time, that they could have gotten away with it if it weren't for me being interested in this record my kid listened to.

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I'm refer
Nope - not too harsh at all, actually he's spot on.

From experience, that paragraph was probably drafted or edited by a lawyer. The giveaways - "whatever royalties exist, if any". Almost nobody says "if any" unless a lawyer told them to. When lawyers take depositions, or are in any situation involving direct examination, they aren't allowed to ask leading questions (only on cross-examination). So you can't ask "what were the royalties from this track", as an example, because the question leads - it assumes that there were royalties. So, a lawyer rephrases that to say "what, if any, royalties were earned from this track?". The giveaway is the "if any". It's legal-ese.

Secondly, a lawyer would have told the guy that damages might extend to the royalties from album sales - not just the individual track - which is why it's limited to this song; as well as the extended damages due from willful infringement, which it at least appears, he was just very very very careful not to admit, and perhaps to try and obfuscate. That's what it looks like, anyway.

"Not properly credited" - this is legal speak for "don't admit fault and say it wasn't licensed"...crediting wasn't the issue (obviously), the song and recording wasn't licensed at all. He's not 'fessing up...he's likely laying the ground work to try and settle for a pittance of what he is liable for, or to try and persuade a judge this wasn't willful infringement because it was some sort of "oversight".

IMHO, your friend needs a good lawyer, needs to make no representations or responses on Facebook or anywhere else in the public domain, certainly needs to not respond directly to the guy - definitely not, nor his lawyer - and needs to keep all his correspondence to his counsel from now on. He's probably got a winner, but it appears they're trying to trap him into the classic mistakes of either waiving his rights or diluting his own case.

Thanks for your feedback. I've referred this forum thread to Stephen. Other than his initial statement, Stephen's been great about not engaging. Fortunately, he's got a lot of fans that speak up for him.
 
Truly sorry if I seemed a little overzealous. He's a long time friend of mine and I never saw a situation like this before where someone literally stole someone's entire track, laid overdubs over it and called it their own.

And yes, that story you're referring to is worse it seems!
I see.

Well, I guess it's a good thing that your friend has already received a (written) statement from the guy who took the riff (I'm talking about what I read in your first post, not the recent statement you posted in your update). Of course this doesn't mean that all is well now, but I assume that your friend is halfway there.

Guess this could be a game, spot which other tracks might have infringing use of other people's music. Anyone else got one?
I spot those kinda 'similarities' all the time. I always seem to forget about these things, because part of me thinks "oh well, why bother..?", but I bet I could come up with a list of maybe ten cases that are really ...uh... strange - and that would just be a list of the tracks I came across in the past twelve months. Yeah, maybe we should turn this into a game.
 
there are of course strict similariities, but it sounds like an open strings folk blues riff, stuff that is not so difficult to happen by accident while noodling on the guitar, as the notes available arent that many there. Just tried myself a minute ago, and found the riff in about 3 seconds. I can expect it to happen every few decades by accident. Maybe the Jeff guy just heard the original riff and then forgot that it was someone else's. If you're a prolific player/writer it happens a lot. I understand the original writer, but an attorney involved for an open strings bluesy stolen riff? Really?
 
there are of course strict similariities, but it sounds like an open strings folk blues riff, stuff that is not so difficult to happen by accident while noodling on the guitar, as the notes available arent that many there. Just tried myself a minute ago, and found the riff in about 3 seconds. I can expect it to happen every few decades by accident. Maybe the Jeff guy just heard the original riff and then forgot that it was someone else's. If you're a prolific player/writer it happens a lot. I understand the original writer, but an attorney involved for an open strings bluesy stolen riff? Really?
I think it's not so much the riff that's in question as that it's Stephens ORIGINAL recording that's used in Jeff Martins "1916". Am I right?
 
oh, I probably missed that part, yes that would completely change the perspective
 
I think it's not so much the riff that's in question as that it's Stephens ORIGINAL recording that's used in Jeff Martins "1916". Am I right?
Yep. Martin basically took the entire Stephen Bennett solo harp guitar recording that was released some time ago, recording tracks over it (and actually sang to the melody played by Bennett in some sections) then called it his own...

Crazy stuff..!
 
Yep. Martin basically took the entire Stephen Bennett solo harp guitar recording that was released some time ago, recording tracks over it (and actually sang to the melody played by Bennett in some sections) then called it his own...

Crazy stuff..!
Never trust a guy with a pencilstache.
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Holy crap, it's actually worse than that. I thought for fun I'd listen to a couple of the guys other tracks. First one I picked was



After ten seconds my jaw was open...anybody who knows their Arvo Part knows this is Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten...

eg.

Not sure which recording they used but anyone want to bet this wasn't licensed either? Guess this could be a game, spot which other tracks might have infringing use of other people's music. Anyone else got one?



Thank you very very much afterlight82 for introducing me to Arvo Pärt. Absolutely beautiful music
 
A surprising new way to be introduced to new music... what tunes did Jeff Martin add tracks to. :)
Now we just need to add dubstep to Jeff Martins tracks and claim them as our own.
And encourage others to continue down that road. Wait, perhaps not.
 
Thank you very very much afterlight82 for introducing me to Arvo Pärt. Absolutely beautiful music

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. It's also incredible live - years ago I was privileged to perform as a child in a candlelit performance of Passio at Brompton Oratory in London with the Hilliard Ensemble with Pärt sitting in the front row...now, I'm a complete atheist really, but this...well, is just sublime. It was right after the Dunblane shootings in the UK, possibly the most awful tragedy in recent memory in the UK, and it was the most extraordinary musical performance for just setting and ambiance and surroundings I ever remember, it made a huge impression on me. After the piece finished (it was the only thing in the program) there was probably a minute of silence - at least.

I always liked Henryk Gorecki but found it sometimes a bit self indulgent in construction whereas Pärt is just...it's like Mondrian in organization but Monet in emotion. (If you've not heard Gorecki, btw, the Symphony of Sorrowful Songs is worth a look.)



Particularly the opening, the counterpoint and the way it develops through the opening minutes of quasi-recitative. And unless you want to listen to it all, skip to the way it goes from the modal A minor stuff to the most sublime passage of straight D major writing ever...around 1:09:30 (qui passus est to the end of the piece)...

Annoyingly, I asked him for his autograph on a piece of manuscript paper after the gig (was the only thing I had to hand that was blank), and then managed to lose it in the years following in a house move where a bunch of boxes got lost. Which was annoying, because he sat down (despite loads of people around)...literally for about 10 minutes writing a little piece on it, before handing it to me. I hope it'll turn up one day!

He's also a phenomenal example of having complete control over your material. Nothing - nothing whatsoever - is out of place.
 
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