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The Death of Melody

douggibson said:
hey man........ That is decent of you. Cheers. I get the gesture , and the peaceful vibes behind the words.
Let's not debate it. Live a good life, and do what you can with music......mmm K ?

The only thing I would like to note for the record (no judgement here from me at all) is



and it's a perfectly valid opinion. But I find interesting is not a single mention or reaction to



So as long as I don't question youtube videos we're cool on "Crack Spiders Bitch".
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This thread is just perfect for what I am about to write.


So.... I love to teach, and really......every student has been the most awesome person (I only teach adults, no one under 20 has ever even asked for a lesson).......except for 1.


21....NYU dropout, made 10's millions of dollars "inventing" (he didn't) a few products......but the "Ninja Wallet" is his most popular.

Actually a talented guy. Showed first lesson and played two Rachmaninoff preludes......very well too. (As Lawson is super talented violinist.)

Anyhow.....TLDR: We barley make it two lessons. Hopeless.......my P.O.V of this guy was every stereo type of a hipster from Williamsberg.

And to his credit basically he tells me to go fuck myself and that was that..... and you know what.......
one of his youtube video has @ 34 millions plays right now.

Good for him. He told me off.....and he went out and made things happen. Props to anyone who says "what do you know" and keeps on their path. Howard Stern did almost a full hour interview of him about 3 weeks after the parting.

Anyhow...... how do I know this ? He kept me on a group mailing list.
One day I get this email announcing the "major launch" of his debut album and his sure path to stardom.

Alex..... was now Franke. Aww.....

Why the new name. I can't say for sure. My theory he reached such an intense stage of douche bag that he was no longer human....... but a Vortex. Like the "infinity stones" but for douche bags.

Somewhere along the way he moved from NYC to LA. Why the new city to live in. I can't say for sure.

My theory is he was magnetically pulled by another, dare I say even more powerful douche bag vortex.

Together they could make a new powerful super douche that could be felt across the time/space continuum.

So when I clicked on the email and the video to play, you can imagine my only reason for being there is to hope what I am about to hear is the worst song ever recorded. I only want to derive pleasure from watching his misfortune.


Was it bad............. unfathomable. I had high hope for suck....... oh and I was not let down.

So see......all is good. The only student to tell me straight up I suck, know nothing is getting millions and millions of people watching his music so I am sure he happy. I am happy too. I get mentioned too.... (the haters who say he can't do it)

It was meant to be. In a million years I could come up with something that so sincerely bad. They way they are being ironic......but still reaching new levels of suck......... that's a talent. You can't teach that. You are either a full on douche bag or your not. Few get this level.. That acting with dialogue ...... would make a porn star cringe


Hat's off to ya Alex I say. (he is the first douche you see)

It's a perfect jam for this whole thread.

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by all means challenge youtube videos. they're meant to be discussed for their validity or lack thereof. I would just say dont immediately dismiss the entire platform just because its youtube.


I understand your frustration and desire to vent from things happening here and no doubt other places. Thng is, from my perspective, its all connected. I've always felt that people's passion for music is often overstated. If it was satisfactory to just make music for music's sake with no expectation of praise, fame, and accolades, we'd have a far more pure art form. That's, not the case. What I see now, in this forum and beyond is frustration. Endless frustration from those who feel their craft is no longer respected and cherished. From people who feel decades of hard work have no been dismissed. Frustration from generations who grew up with the dreams of rewards and accolades for their pursuit of music, but instead they get a bum industry with hardly any opportunity.

I feel this relates because musicians helping musicians is a great concept when all we want to do is just create. Musicians helping musicians means very little because the greatest anecdotal evidence and sincere knowledge don't often guarantee a link to measurable results professionally. If you've studied music for years, couldn't afford to get into a music program, and despite years of practice and studying can't get a break, you might turn to quick satisfaction like youtube videos to make you feel like you're getting some kind of progress at your price point. People dismissing the experience of someone like you with a large resume is probably less personal than it feels. "what do you know!?" most likely translates to "what does that information really do for me in my situation!?"

Trying to teach people here would probably need to be a labor of love because people will probably ignore a lot of it, and waver around trying to find some quick fix for long term problems. Nonetheless, I sincerely mean to say thank you for your efforts and I hope you'll find a more satisfying experience here or elsewhere.
 
Hahah, understood, sir! Yes, I'll hop over and talk to you in the "Red" States, @douggibson . Glad you are not misreading why I hadn't responded.

Be well!

Mike
 
TigerTheFrog said:
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

It's not easy to write a melody that is unique and instantly recognizable. The best example for me is the intro of the original Star Trek series. Da dada, da dadadadaaaaa.
It's simple, you can recognize it immediately, even if it's used in a slightly different context.
To my ears this is the perfect melody.

Edit: And I don't need to post the melody because everyone knows it just by description!
 
douggibson said:
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Seems like they were going for a viral hit with this thing... maybe trying to be the next 'Gangham Style' or something.

Some people are drawn to this instant-grat kind of popmusic. I have never understood it... it flares up like a match and is forgotten just as quickly.

Sounds like your student was someone who wanted to be famous more than anything else.
 
What I actually want to say is that music is not good just because it has a good melody.
Music is emotion, music creates feelings or memories in us. Music creates moods, atmosphere.
And how to achieve that with music, with or without melody is irrelevant. Decisive is what the listener associates with it.
When does a melody become a melody? From 2, from 3 or 4 different notes?

I had to think of the "Einstürzende Neubauten", an 80's punk band from Germany that made music with everything that could show any sound. Most of them felt it at that time noise or harassment, for others it was a revelation. There wasn't a melody in the usual sense either, but it opened the door to a new genre. Today musicians (even HZ) pay a lot of money for VIs to be able to use exactly this "noise".

I like both. And yet the Star Trek intro will always be unique and recognizable by its melody.
 
If there is in fact a "death of melody" (and I'm not certain that there is), it's merely an opportunity for good melodists to stand out.

The orchestral score was all but dead in the films of the 1970s. Then John Williams bucked the trends of his day, and a new golden age for orchestral film scores began.

I'm not worried about a world without melody, because the world will become tired of it.
 
"If our music survives, which I have no doubt it will, then it will because it is good." Jerry Goldsmith. Not sure what "our music" refers to exactly, but I like to pretend that it is that style of film music that we know Goldsmith, Horner, Williams, for. And though the people who get exposure to that music seems to be getting smaller (I have no idea if it is, or not) I feel that fundamentally, that music is good, and therefore it'll survive. Will it thrive? Who knows? But I think there's enough there that it'll always be about, simply because it is too damn good not to.
 
TomislavEP said:
Personally, I think that coming up with an original, simple and singable melody is a true pinnacle of music creation. Technology, sound design, being creative with arranging of the already finished elements is all great, but the basic musical elements - melodies, harmonies and rhythms must always come first.
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"Melody is the essence of music. I compare a good melodist to a fine racer, and counterpointists to hack post-horses; therefore be advised, let well alone and remember the old Italian proverb: Chi sa più, meno sa—Who knows most, knows least." -Mozart

This is why John Williams will be remembered in 100 years and John Cage will not. It's also why Paul McCartney is a genius despite what elitists with far less ability might say.

TomislavEP said:
The fact that most types of modern music are more and more away from these principles is only a reflection of the sad attitude of an average listener toward music. Most of the people nowadays simply don't have time, let alone will to appreciate the music as an art form and to truly experience it like it should be experienced. Instead, they're considering music as nothing more than a background distraction. The basic rule of mass media - give the people what they want (the line from "Tomorrow Never Dies"). This is evident in genres that are generally geared toward the masses, but unfortunately also in much more sophisticated ones, like film music.
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The degeneration of film music didn't result from the demands of the public; it resulted from the demands of the directors. Not all film music these days is theme-less anyway, and I think the Zimmer trend will lose popularity eventually.

One of the reasons gaming interests me as a composer is that it's an immersive experience in which players often hear the same music repeatedly. If anyone has time to absorb a tune, it's them. And what are the most popular game OSTs in the world? The tuneful ones.
 
joelmichael said:
"Melody is the essence of music. I compare a good melodist to a fine racer, and counterpointists to hack post-horses; therefore be advised, let well alone and remember the old Italian proverb: Chi sa più, meno sa—Who knows most, knows least." -Mozart

This is why John Williams will be remembered in 100 years and John Cage will not. It's also why Paul McCartney is a genius despite what elitists with far less ability might say.



The degeneration of film music didn't result from the demands of the public; it resulted from the demands of the directors. Not all film music these days is theme-less anyway, and I think the Zimmer trend will lose popularity eventually.

One of the reasons gaming interests me as a composer is that it's an immersive experience in which players often hear the same music repeatedly. If anyone has time to absorb a tune, it's them. And what are the most popular game OSTs in the world? The tuneful ones.
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I still can't get the music from the Outcast game (Lennie Moore) out of my head, and that was more than 20 years ago.

Or Fantasy World Dizzy on the Commodore 64. And that was 30 years ago!
 
douggibson said:
@chocobitz825
Hey....... you have been talking peacefully to me......


I read you were a cop. You make the call.

Give me advice.


Watch the video. Am I wrong.


Look...... this has been on my mind from the very second comment. A drug addict can spot another.


Let me ask you:

Should it take it down.

You were a cop.

Make the call.


You say take it down, I promise to delete it, walk away, and never speak of it, or visit here again.

If you see were i am coming from and see validity.... to leaving it up...... I'll do that too.
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lol cops can only go so far in civil disputes.

mmmm I dont know what to say here. I understand your frustration. If you gotta vent, you gotta vent. I only hope it made you feel better.
I still maintain that half of our disputes on these forums probably stem from a bit of bitterness and frustration we feel from our industry. I mean...its a shitty time to be a professional in the music business.
 
I wouldn’t mean to imply that frustration comes from a lack of success. I think it’s equally as frustrating being successful. I find one of the most frustrating things is seeing new musicians coming in, trying their best, doing the right things and still failing. I have new artists ask me what I did in my profession, and I too try to share knowledge and experience, but it only goes so far for them. I think again, that’s why sometimes people can be dismissive of education and experience here because at the end of the day a lot of people are just looking for that magic key, or that magic opportunity to achieve what the folks before them did. It’s tough out there. Really tough. I’ve grow accustomed to the idea that success as we’ve seen and experienced it is fading.
 
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