Summary added: Death Bug in Windows Update (W10)
- Thread starter JohnG
- Start date
SoNowWhat?
realised I can type here
So W10 updates are a complete craps shoot? Or am I missing something?
This is disturbing reading. If you’re going to hard-push updates to users then there is no option to release beta versions to the wild anymore.
This is disturbing reading. If you’re going to hard-push updates to users then there is no option to release beta versions to the wild anymore.
chimuelo
Star Of Stage & Screen
My new drivers for Windows 10 are rock solid, no troubles and currently updated everything.
Still testing this C236/Xeon rig.
But good news is I have a developer making me Horn Section samples for a Dexibell Rackount Module.
No more PCs for gigs.
This means 6 x powerful 4GHz rigs for recording now.
I’ve been so fortunate to never have a crash after 20 years of using PCs live.
One time I needed a spare SSD in between shows, and once a reboot to put fans on high as the temps turned my Audio into fuzz.
Sure hope Windows 10 doesn’t become a PITA.
Still testing this C236/Xeon rig.
But good news is I have a developer making me Horn Section samples for a Dexibell Rackount Module.
No more PCs for gigs.
This means 6 x powerful 4GHz rigs for recording now.
I’ve been so fortunate to never have a crash after 20 years of using PCs live.
One time I needed a spare SSD in between shows, and once a reboot to put fans on high as the temps turned my Audio into fuzz.
Sure hope Windows 10 doesn’t become a PITA.
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JohnG
Senior Member
Actually I like Windows 10 -- not quarrelling with that. But, as @Blakus wrote, daring to turn Windows Update from "disabled" to "on" is a hair-raising experience.
It took four days to get this computer back where it started, and it's still not really done. Certainly, if I new more about PCs (and didn't have a family etc.) it would have taken less time, but I have yet to see a full solution from anyone at Microsoft and have seen plenty of people hopping mad about it whose computers did the same black screen that mine did.
Had to use AOMEI's Partition Assistant, yet another program that has nothing to do with music as such. Sometimes I think it would have been faster to work for Microsoft for a couple of years before doing music.
All is not perfect. To boot the computer I have to interrupt the sequence with F11 and aim the boot to the WD hard drive, so I have to find out exactly how to address that annoying, though not fatal, problem. My C drive lacks an EFI so I have to work out how to fix that. Cloned the drive just to be safe.
It's kind of working but what a pain.
It took four days to get this computer back where it started, and it's still not really done. Certainly, if I new more about PCs (and didn't have a family etc.) it would have taken less time, but I have yet to see a full solution from anyone at Microsoft and have seen plenty of people hopping mad about it whose computers did the same black screen that mine did.
Had to use AOMEI's Partition Assistant, yet another program that has nothing to do with music as such. Sometimes I think it would have been faster to work for Microsoft for a couple of years before doing music.
All is not perfect. To boot the computer I have to interrupt the sequence with F11 and aim the boot to the WD hard drive, so I have to find out exactly how to address that annoying, though not fatal, problem. My C drive lacks an EFI so I have to work out how to fix that. Cloned the drive just to be safe.
It's kind of working but what a pain.
chimuelo
Star Of Stage & Screen
That is a serious PITA JG and I hope it gets sorted out.
I’m reading nightmare scenarios at my DSP Forum too
Then I’m reading how hyper threading is a serious security threat.
I’m so nervous about NOT having a problem one might come my way.
Can’t wait for my all Hardware live rig to finish.
At least that way it’s isolated to an OS @ home.
I’m reading nightmare scenarios at my DSP Forum too
Then I’m reading how hyper threading is a serious security threat.
I’m so nervous about NOT having a problem one might come my way.
Can’t wait for my all Hardware live rig to finish.
At least that way it’s isolated to an OS @ home.
kitekrazy
Senior Member
For me they can be. My issue is with updates screwing up my network and shared drives. I have 3 W10 systems and two went fine and I had to roll one back. So far I've been lucky not to have the issue John had. I'm lazy when it comes to backup images and I've been able to fix everything in W10. I'm not a fan of the evolving OS. I'd rather go back to paying for OS upgrades and service packs.
I used to have that exact problem. In my case it was because I reinstalled Windows while having more than 1 disk connected. I found out pretty early on, reinstalled Windows again with only the boot disk attached, and never had a problem since.
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JohnG
Senior Member
Yes, that does seem to be the issue. My reluctance to installing Windows 10 from scratch stems from losing the version of Kontakt I've been using, v5.7.3.37. As far as I know there's no way to get that version back.
I'm thinking about it though -- the recovered disk approach feels unstable. It looks as though Native Access offers only 5.8 or something like that.
EvilDragon
KSP Wizard
Yes there is. Just make a copy of the DLL and EXE files, that's all you need. You can install the latest version from Native Access, but use 5.7.3 instead at your discretion.
I prefer the NI access way of installing stuff over the old boxes full of DVDs way. Or the 3 dozen updates as individual files that each take forever to unpack and install. But I don't appreciate all the DRM cancer and lost flexibility one bit.
These days the form of DRM used or not used definitely is factored into my purchase decisions! I try to stay away from everything that needs another "service" or "manager" installed. I'm always happy to see the "only for full version of Kontakt" messages, because those libraries so far seem to have been free of DRM. I want to be able to just make a backup of my stuff and be sure that I'll not be a nightmare to get to run again if I ever have to re-install or switch computers.
About a decade ago I've heard a story of a black metal band using a windows pc live, where they hadn't properly activated the install and it automatically shut down after 2 hours. They played the windows shutdown sound over the big speakers at a live open air concert x]. Got some good laughs from the crowd apparently.
These days the form of DRM used or not used definitely is factored into my purchase decisions! I try to stay away from everything that needs another "service" or "manager" installed. I'm always happy to see the "only for full version of Kontakt" messages, because those libraries so far seem to have been free of DRM. I want to be able to just make a backup of my stuff and be sure that I'll not be a nightmare to get to run again if I ever have to re-install or switch computers.
About a decade ago I've heard a story of a black metal band using a windows pc live, where they hadn't properly activated the install and it automatically shut down after 2 hours. They played the windows shutdown sound over the big speakers at a live open air concert x]. Got some good laughs from the crowd apparently.
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JohnG
Senior Member
@EvilDragon you are AWESOME, as usual
Moved the EXE and DLL files over to their respective locations -- thanks!!
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Shad0wLandsUK
Contemplating Composing...
And less if you have standard images for reinstallingOne day job, hardly something to cry about
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JohnG
Senior Member
Summary:
My problems arose in Windows from updating Windows 10 to the 1803 version. You get a blank screen and the Recycle Bin, the only icon that's really working. You can get at task manager (CTRL-ALT-DEL).
There's a good description of the problem here, but I did not try the solution proposed at this link:
https://www.surfacetablethelp.com/2018/05/unavailable-desktop-with-recycle-bin-on-black-screen-on-windows-10-v1803-update.html (https://www.surfacetablethelp.com/20...-black-screen-on-windows-10-v1803-update.html)
I tried to use task manager to get at things, and fortunately had a full, recent backup of the C: drive on AOMEI.
Nevertheless, it's not possible with the backup I had to create a bootable drive. So, while I didn't lose a single file, I ended up performing a clean install of W10 and what I DID lose was v5.7.3 of Kontakt, which "broke" a few other things.
EvilDragon suggested I substitute the EXE and DLL files from my old drive into the now-new Kontakt 5.8.1 that downloaded from Native Access. That helped, but unfortunately I lost the ability to "add library" directly from within Kontakt.
As you may know, v5.8.1 allows one to add a library only from within Native Access, and I'm unable to add EWQLSO Percussion XP for some reason -- everything appears to be in place but it won't add in. This despite the fact that the old "regular" EWQLSO Percussion does work. The XP patches appear as DEMO and time out quite quickly, so if I can't figure out how to add them back, I won't be able to use them anymore.
As I said, I am able to load patches from the even older Kontakt version of the EWQLSO Percussion library (the one without extended content). Just not the expansion.
Everything is now back in order except for:
1. Can't open very old East West (Kontakt version) of Percussion XP, which is too bad, because it has a Wagner bass drum and a few other very good sounds on it. I'll call Native Instruments today and / or put in a ticket.
2. I had an install from long ago -- can't even remember how long ago -- of Abbey Road 60s drums that had about 20 or so kits. Native Instruments made me "Install" the library and now there's an entirely new library with the same name that only has four kits (two really, since it's just the "full" and "lite" version for each of two kits).
So now, on the good side, I have a fresh, clean Windows 10 install and didn't lose too much.
On the bad side, it has taken nearly a week of tinkering to resurrect the PC the way it was. I have a complex setup, with I don't know how many libraries, plus a software RAID on one of the drives (which didn't help).
The other bad thing was that I reset my BIOS to its default state and I'll have to go back through that to turn off Speedstep and some of the other "helpful" power management items. Also, of course, one has to go through the "Settings" in Windows 10 have to have all the non-music rubbish (background tasks and microphone access and all that) turned off.
And I disabled "Windows Update" in Services. I won't be using that any time soon!
John
My problems arose in Windows from updating Windows 10 to the 1803 version. You get a blank screen and the Recycle Bin, the only icon that's really working. You can get at task manager (CTRL-ALT-DEL).
There's a good description of the problem here, but I did not try the solution proposed at this link:
https://www.surfacetablethelp.com/2018/05/unavailable-desktop-with-recycle-bin-on-black-screen-on-windows-10-v1803-update.html (https://www.surfacetablethelp.com/20...-black-screen-on-windows-10-v1803-update.html)
I tried to use task manager to get at things, and fortunately had a full, recent backup of the C: drive on AOMEI.
Nevertheless, it's not possible with the backup I had to create a bootable drive. So, while I didn't lose a single file, I ended up performing a clean install of W10 and what I DID lose was v5.7.3 of Kontakt, which "broke" a few other things.
EvilDragon suggested I substitute the EXE and DLL files from my old drive into the now-new Kontakt 5.8.1 that downloaded from Native Access. That helped, but unfortunately I lost the ability to "add library" directly from within Kontakt.
As you may know, v5.8.1 allows one to add a library only from within Native Access, and I'm unable to add EWQLSO Percussion XP for some reason -- everything appears to be in place but it won't add in. This despite the fact that the old "regular" EWQLSO Percussion does work. The XP patches appear as DEMO and time out quite quickly, so if I can't figure out how to add them back, I won't be able to use them anymore.
As I said, I am able to load patches from the even older Kontakt version of the EWQLSO Percussion library (the one without extended content). Just not the expansion.
Everything is now back in order except for:
1. Can't open very old East West (Kontakt version) of Percussion XP, which is too bad, because it has a Wagner bass drum and a few other very good sounds on it. I'll call Native Instruments today and / or put in a ticket.
2. I had an install from long ago -- can't even remember how long ago -- of Abbey Road 60s drums that had about 20 or so kits. Native Instruments made me "Install" the library and now there's an entirely new library with the same name that only has four kits (two really, since it's just the "full" and "lite" version for each of two kits).
So now, on the good side, I have a fresh, clean Windows 10 install and didn't lose too much.
On the bad side, it has taken nearly a week of tinkering to resurrect the PC the way it was. I have a complex setup, with I don't know how many libraries, plus a software RAID on one of the drives (which didn't help).
The other bad thing was that I reset my BIOS to its default state and I'll have to go back through that to turn off Speedstep and some of the other "helpful" power management items. Also, of course, one has to go through the "Settings" in Windows 10 have to have all the non-music rubbish (background tasks and microphone access and all that) turned off.
And I disabled "Windows Update" in Services. I won't be using that any time soon!
John
ChazC
Active Member
Sorry to read about all your Win10 issues - what a nightmare. However, this issue with a library being DEMO is very similar to the issue I had on a fresh Win10 install and trying to install older Kontakt libraries. Just have a look to check you don’t have any old Service Center .xml files lurking around - they don’t play nice with Native Access and produce the very same result - installed, registered libraries showing as demo only. I tore my hair out for 3 days (with zero help from NI) before finding out that service center had launched itself at some point of the reinstallation and created several .xml’scausing the very issue you describe.
Best of luck.
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JohnG
Senior Member
Interesting -- do you recall which folders or general areas would harbour these nasty .xml files?
Doesn't AOMEI make full disk images? (Which would help in this sort of situation - especially if you have a bootable rescue USB or whatever it's called to restore the backup - although it's always easy to be wise after the event.)
Not that you should have to do this sort of thing, of course. I imagine Microsoft would say that Windows 10 is perfectly safe to update itself without being asked and without user intervention...
but I would always aim to have a good disk image backup in place before I trigger an update.
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JohnG
Senior Member
Undoubtedly you are right! In my reckless way, I have always assumed that the worst that Update could wreak would be a corrupt file or something, not a Death Screen that makes the computer unusable. So, I think, an AOMEI backup should be fine....
With four PCs I think I've been a bit lazy about creating a USB bootable for each one, but I guess that's the ticket. I'm not clear on whether you need just One USB To Rule Them All, or four separate ones, but no harm done in getting some extra USBs. They are quite a bit cheaper than 4 days of one's time.
