Spitfire Westworld - Winner Announced!

[FarleyCZ]

I hope that opportunities would flow from it for David. But even if the main price was the best thing in the world. Even if it ment you're gonna fly to Hollywood never be seen home again ... even in that case, you just can't count on it by any mean. It still has to be just fun for you. You will not win. Period. One of 11000 participants will, but statistically, it just won't be you. I don't understand anyone who went to such a huge competition hoping in anything else. ...thus I absolutely don't understand the outrage. And it makes me sad, cause this way Spitfire or anyone else won't bother setting up something like that next time. And none of us will get a chance to play with a scene from an actual high profile TV show again ... just because some people's egos are hurt and they can't swallow it. Sad, really.

 

[Kabraxis]

I can't help myself to think, if Westworld actually used David's (superb) piece in the series, it would become VIRAL in a blink. And there's no better PR than people meme'ing your stuff - which even can save your series after dropping ratings to a third.

 

[Studiodraven]

Hi, I am an old fart. But I haven’t lost the passion of writing scores or inventing new sounds and bits of technology for my music. But I so agree with everything I’ve read in your post above. The road of rejection teaches you nothing. It makes you hard and cynical - the antithesis to music. Nor does too much applause. I’ve got my Oscar. It didn’t make me a better composer, or change my career. Just for one night I could be insane and giddy and think it was all relevant. it was fun, but that’s it. ...who can even remember who won for what last year or the year before?

I know everyone involved with the competition - not the composers, but I’m old enough to have worked for J.J.‘s father, and actually done a film with him. And we’re both synth geeks. Ramin really got his start with me, and met the Nolan’s through our working together - which - through his enormous talent - led directly to “Westworld”. The “Spitfire” guys I consider as personal friends and more than once have we helped each other out. ...so, why am I writing this? Just to name -drop? No, actually I secretly stayed away from listening to anything that was being submitted. I thought - once the dust settles, there will be an amazing amount of music and talent that should be recognized and given an opportunity at furthering their careers. I’ve done that a lot. I don’t think that Harry G-H, or John Powell, Lorne Balfe or JunkieXL and Ben Wallfisch - as just a few examples, will think of me holding them back in forging their careers. Our whole ”Blue Planet” and all the other things ‘Bleeding Fingers’ does comes from the idea that there is an unbelievable pool of talent out there that should be given a chance.

But then I started to read the comments and the bitterness and bitchyness in most of the responses to the winner (whom I’ve never met or heard off). And I thought, why even bother with this lot. They’ve already lost. They think music is a business when it’s a passion, they forget that putting hours or days in, is a luxury you’ll never have again when you’re on a deadline on a ‘proper’ job...
but, mostly, it’s the lack of respect for someone’s moment of joy - where they should be celebrated - that got me.

so - carry on with your uninformed small minded criticism. it’s all here now in black and white for ever. The beauty of the internet. And as a reference of how i wouldn’t ever want to work with a single one of you. Nor you with me. Bad fit. It doesn’t even ever matter how good your music is or how smart you are... And since music and film-making are inherently collaborative, I can’t really see how any director will want to deal with that amount of entitlement and hubris.
hz

Thank you for writing this, HZ. It helped me put the competition into perspective, and hopefully it’ll do the same for others.
Like many others, I wasn’t sure about the winning entry at first. I didn’t understand at first why the judges picked it over other entries. But you know what? It wasn’t my decision, and I’m not a TV producer. I’m a musician, just like David. And what he did was what the judges were looking for.
Oh well. On to the next opportunity I go. That’s how it works.

The more I listen to his entry, the more I get what he was saying with it and the more I appreciate it. It’s also extremely well done. After the surprise wore off, I realised that I’d been laughing at the right moments. His piece WORKED.
I’m also an “old fart” (47 in May. Yikes), but unlike you I’m just starting out on this journey. I’ve only got one commercial job under my belt. I realise that I have a lot to learn, and your post and Christian’s have helped me enormously. I can see now that I need to think outside the box more when I write.
I’m not going to whinge about David’s work. I’ve already left 2 Facebook groups over the ridiculous amount of negativity floating to the surface at the moment. I don’t need that. I’ve got music to write.

We do this because we love doing making music. We’re musicians. I still remember the thrill of buying my first sampler (an Ensoniq Mirage, which I still have), and I still get that thrill every time I write something. That’s why I do it. Not to win competitions, or to make a load of money. I could make money sitting in an office. I do it because I love it. We all do.
I think a lot of people need to remember that.

So congratulations to David on a well deserved win. I hope others can appreciate what he brought to the table, and I hope this opens doors for him. He deserves it.

 

[rt09]

I can't help myself to think, if Westworld actually used David's (superb) piece in the series, it would become VIRAL in a blink. And there's no better PR than people meme'ing your stuff - which even can save your series after dropping ratings to a third.

It's possible! Personally I doubt it would have saved it. Genre was already a very polarizing episode inside the community of Westworld fans. This car chase scene specifically was mocked to no end. I think a more adventurous music choice may have just thrown more fuel upon the fire!

 

[roalin]

Congrats @David Kudell - we loved the piece!

Rast Team

 

[madfiddler]

As someone who "learnt the trade" writing chiptune on the Commodore Amiga for cracktro's back in the very early 90's I felt a huge glowey rush when I heard the winning track.

Congratulations to @David Kudell - I thought it was very refreshing to hear something which wasn't trying to obviously sound like something else - something I think we all agree is an issue in the film industry, and is now becoming more of an issue in the games industry too.

 

[Pedro Camacho]

@Rctec thank you for your wisdom and perspective. When they announced me as the winner and then I saw the feedback start coming in, I told myself that this is going to be an incredible opportunity to develop thick skin. And to act with class no matter what people say. Because if I am going to be a successful composer, dealing with criticism from directors who have trusted me with their project, then sucking it up and getting back to work, it is going to be a LOT tougher than what some people on the internet say.

Here's a photo of me today, back at my day job but so wanting to be on my computer composing music. You might notice the shirt that I bought on your tour in LA. A tour that my wife, not a film music fan, said was the best concert she's ever been to. That's because your music connects to so many people on an emotional level and appeals to not just musicians. What better thing to aspire to?

My whole life I've been afraid to take risks with my music. Avoiding putting my music out there for fear it's not good enough. At 43 years old, I kick myself that I didn't follow through with music when I was scoring a student film 25 years ago. Ironic then that I won this contest by what else: Taking a risk with a take on this scene that was different. As much as I would love to try doing a version of Dark Knight, guess what - you've already done that, you invented it and it's time for us to try something new.

As a longtime fan who, I'm not ashamed to admit, gets a little teary-eyed every time he listens to Beyond Rangoon, just reading your comment here is one of the greatest things that's ever happened to me. Thank you HZ.

David

Hey @David Kudell !! I went to your facebook page minutes after the announcement to like your post.
As soon as I heard your "level up" on the gun reload I knew you had to win! It just put a huge smile in my face.
If my father was alive he would have loved it too, he was my first gaming partner and film enthusiast.

About negativity... most of it is probably just envy in disguise, ignore it.

When I was 26 and made by debut into scores everyone I spoke to told me:
"You won't be able to score anything significant living in Portugal and, even worse, in Madeira Island."

I had some really good classical training but that was it (clearly not enough)... I had no one around to help me into mixing, scoring etc. - island... - My school was playing games every day and seeing movies every weekend since tender age.
At some point I needed help - and boy it was hard to get since everyone kept everything for themselves. I was told all my life I was always "too kind" of a person to be successful.
Strangely, the only person that kindly helped me without hesitation back in 2007 (and he went deep into it...) was Thomas Bergersen before he started in Two Steps from Hell.
I couldn't believe it, the best one in midi mockups was also the kindest.

That moment boosted my morale and I gave back as much as a could to Thomas and to others. If everyone I helped helps another the world is a happier place (isn't that why we are here in this globe in the first place?).

This moment, when I was 26, just reminded me I was actually in the right path and being (genuinely) kind is also one of the keys to success. Also being kind makes you more open to critique. Negative people usually take criticism as something personal... (I know tons of people that come to me looking for help and are like this... and get angry if I don't praise their work.)

Seeing @Rctec take his time to come here just proves to me, once again, kindness/positivity/open mindness IS the right path.

My son is 7 today so I can't be much longer than this (haha) but thank you for making me smile with your entry.

Keep working and don't let any lost battle defeat you... ever!
Pedro

 

[cinemuse]

I like what you said about the fact of doing music day in and day out being a luxury. It reminds me of this great quote by Jose Mujica criticising our modern way of living :

"When I buy something, when you buy something, you are not paying money for it.
You are paying with the hours of life you had to spend earning that money.

The difference is that life is one thing money can’t buy.
Life only gets shorter. And it is pitiful to waste one’s life and freedom that way."

David's winning cue was exceptionally well-produced, entertaining, and astoundingly sure of itself. All good things. What struck me as disqualifying was that, perhaps because he comes at this from advertising rather than drama, he seems to have ignored one of the "cardinal precepts": if you need to explain why you did what you did, it probably ain't working. And, at least for me, he has some 'splaining to do. What surprises me most is that the jury--all pros--let him get away with it. How can one hear the 8-bit trumpet cavalry charge ("You won!") blown over the big detonation as anything other than a joke? But then again, maybe I didn't get the memo. I stopped watching WW after season one! - ah

 

[MGdepp]

Allow me to lower the tension here? I mean really, let's put aside all hard feelings and congratulate David, who did a very good job afterall!


According to Christian Henson, even Stanley Kubrick would have voted for this entry. That's quite an amusing statement and I immediately imagined what it would sound like if we had yet another scoring competition, this time for a scene from Kubrick's film.

This is brilliant! And it really tells its own story - a direction that is not present in the film itself. It adds a unique dimension to the film - just what film music should always do! Fuck Bartok! This is the way to go!

 

[poetd]

Social Media has trained people to be the worst version of themselves.

Step away from it and look at what the other COMPOSERS have to say about it - their response has been universal - even those who didn't particularly love his work still chimed in with congrats for him.

Its whats best for YOU in the long run. Sincerely.

 

[MauroPantin]

No way to know this for sure, but with the reaction and the ad-hominem attacks towards their integrity I would bet the guys over at Spitfire are going: "So, that was fun. Let's never do it again."

 

[JoelS]

I really enjoyed the winning track, and it fit the scene 100%!

Maybe this was said somewhere in the volumes of posts about the contest, but it bears repeating: that episode was structured around the conceit that the guy with the gun was dosed with a party drug that made him hallucinate that he was in different genres of media entertainment. It was played as comedic, which was rare in an otherwise very serious series. Several of the runners-up also reflected the comedic genre shift. A few others played it straight, which wouldn't have worked as well in the context of the actual episode.

@FuzyDunlop It wasn't a 'joke' track, it fit the scene perfectly in the context of the episode in which it aired. The scene before that had Caleb thinking he was in a film noir, and directly after it while he's standing next to Dolores armed to the teeth, he thinks he's in a sappy romance. Romance music plays. It was a comedic scene. The actual scene in the show is scored with Flight Of The Valkyries, to comedic effect and probably as a reference to Apocalypse Now.

David scored to picture very well, imo, and absolutely captured the spirit of that episode.

I guess not a lot of composers watched Westworld. I like the series a lot and think it posed interesting questions about the nature of AI, sentience, morality, good and evil.

 

[Dale Turner]

The prize was merchandise.

The prize is being heard by Jonathan Nolan, Lisa Joy and J.J. Abrams (and Ramin Djawadi).

 

[JoelS]

It wasn't a prerequisite. We were scoring the scene presented, as presented.

Half the winners scored it straight, half scored it within the context of the episode in which the scene appeared. Should people who watched the show have ignored the context of the scene? Clearly, people were not penalized for scoring it as straight 'serious sci-fi action.' Should those who did watch the show and knew the context of the scene be penalized?

The people who made the show were the judges. They picked a winner that perfectly fit the spirit of the thing they created. This seems very unsurprising to me.

@SzPeti42 I feel for you and hope you have plenty of success in life. I take issue with your point "those who could afford to take a risk or had extra knowledge by having the money to watch the show on HBO seem to have had an unfair advantage."

The ratio of conventional score to comedic score in the winning group was 50/50. Neither approach was penalized. They liked the comedic version best. It's a subjective judgement. What else do you really expect from a contest?

 

[poetd]

The brief was ALWAYS - score to the program IF YOU WANT - score to it as a standalone media - IF YOU WANT.

Always was.
Mountains out of molehills guys.

 

[SzPeti42]

I feel for you and hope you have plenty of success in life. I take issue with your point "those who could afford to take a risk or had extra knowledge by having the money to watch the show on HBO seem to have had an unfair advantage."

The ratio of conventional score to comedic score in the winning group was 50/50. Neither approach was penalized. They liked the comedic version best. It's a subjective judgement. What else do you really expect from a contest?

First, thank you for your kind words!
Do you have the numbers about this ratio of 50/50? It wasn't my overall experience with the 500 I listened to, but that's still a small number compared to 11000 and I didn't do spreadsheets so I honestly don't know what the real ratio is. That's why I carefully said they "seemed" to have an advantage, not that they actually had. I just tried to explain my emotional thought process throughout, not argue that I'm right. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

 

[Banquet]

Massive congrats to @David Kudell

I've seen quite a lot of the competition entries on YouTube over the last few weeks and most were pretty generic. David's entry is not only memorable, but is one of very few that enticed me to keep watching the scene!

I do understand some of the sceptism about whether the music would really have been used in the episode, but the level of crap being posted (and also about the runner up entries) is very depressing. I have a sinking feeling that, whatever the entry was like, much of this drivel would still be posted here.

I haven't the stomach or the time to read every post or YouTube comment but I think David has behaved and responded very honourably throughout. You're a winner David... not just this competition, but in something more important than that...

Who would enter a competition, eh?

 

[JT]

Congratulations to David! His entry caught the attention of the judges, that's the whole point of a competition like this. He should be very proud. His music made watching the clip more enjoyable for me.

 

[Primary Target]

Dude, I posted once (twice?) elsewhere in this thread. You make it sound like I am posting over and over again.

lambasteor lam·bast

[ lam-beyst, -bast ]SHOW IPA

verb (used with object), lam·bast·ed, lam·bast·ing. Informal.

1. to beat or whip severely.

2.to reprimand or berate harshly; censure; excoriate.

Yeah, no - that's not what I am doing.

What I am doing, however, is voicing my opinion. If you don't agee with freedom of expression, then I think you've joined the wrong community.

@Mike Greene made it very clear earlier in the thread that, going forward, this should be only focused on positivity to David and any other questions/thoughts/rants about the Westworld competition should go to the drama zone thread where you can exercise your freedom of expression to your heart's content. (see post #598 for reference)

 

[Primary Target]

Why did you seemingly post this out of nowhere and not in response to anyone then, after he made that rule?

I've been catching up the thread and saw that it had started to unravel all over again. Just felt right to remind everyone that there's another thread (which I have also participated in) where a lot of this conversation would be far more suited.