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Scoring when nobody agrees on a style.

PaulLawler

PaulLawler

New Member
Hi Guys,

What do you do if you’ve completed a score under close scrutiny of the director who approved everything, and then the producers decide they want half of the film in a different style, but also change their minds about what style they want numerous times, leading to endless rewrites and adding weeks to the agreed schedule.

Is it fair to renegotiate the deal or am I risking making myself look bad ? This isn’t a very well paid film, typical indie film budget but with some decent names.
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If they've already paid you some or all of your composer fee, then you have a little bit of keverage, because if they fire you, or you walk away, they're going to have to pay additional money for another composer to complete the score.

You can argue that it would be cheaper for them to pay you a little bit extra for the additional work, as opposed to hiring a new composer. You're also familiar with the project and are likely to respond to changes much quicker than someone new.

If they haven't paid you anything yet, it's a little trickier, and you need to tread carefully. You're not in a position to make any kind of demands.

You can make it known that all the many changes have pushed the project beyond its original scope, but unless your contract has a stipulation that covers excessive change requests, you're pretty much at their mercy for any additional money.

Also, since it's an indie, they probably don't have a lot, or any, extra money available, so the likelihood of additional compensation is low. So if you want the gig badly enough, you're probably just going to have to bite the bullet and ride it out.

And be glad they're not considering AI-generated music to complete the score! :eek:
 
NekujaK said:
If they've already paid you some or all of your composer fee, then you have a little bit of keverage, because if they fire you, or you walk away, they're going to have to pay additional money for another composer to complete the score.

You can argue that it would be cheaper for them to pay you a little bit extra for the additional work, as opposed to hiring a new composer. You're also familiar with the project and are likely to respond to changes much quicker than someone new.

If they haven't paid you anything yet, it's a little trickier, and you need to tread carefully. You're not in a position to make any kind of demands.

You can make it known that all the many changes have pushed the project beyond its original scope, but unless your contract has a stipulation that covers excessive change requests, you're pretty much at their mercy for any extra money.

Also, since it's an indie, they probably don't have a lot, or any, extra money available, so the likelihood of additional compensation is low. So if you want the gig badly enough, you're probably just going to have to bite the bullet.

And be glad they're not considering AI-generated music to complete the score! :eek:
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Yes I got 50% upfront. The contract doesn’t include limits on revisions, but it does have a delivery deadline date on it which we will easily blast through because of all the changes, which were no fault of mine.
 
PaulLawler said:
Yes I got 50% upfront. The contract doesn’t include limits on revisions, but it does have a delivery deadline date on it which we will easily blast through because of all the changes, which were no fault of mine.
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That's good that you got some money up front. But realistically, at this point it's all about how badly you want the composer credit on the film.

You can gently point out that the revisions have gone beyond the original scope of work, but they're not contractuakky obligated to pay you more money.

This is not an uncommon situation, and if you want to stay involved in the film and enhance your chances for getting future work, you're probably just going to have to roll with it and not complain.
 
This happens to everybody. To me, lots of times. Often it’s just their fear of The New. But to solve it…Simple. Insist on a preview with the music you believe in. It has to be a proper preview with at least 500 people. I don’t want to mention names, but the amount of times I’ve been told I’m ruining the movie - and then the audience loved it, and we didn’t change a note.
But! You must be sure of why and how you’ve decided on every note and gesture in the music. It always has to be your point of view. Your ideas.
Of course, it goes without saying that the director has to agree and love your concepts. But it’s your job to push the boundaries, to take the director to a place beyond what he can musically imagine - and make perfect sense with the story-telling, editing and colour of the film.
And if it’s a truly committed score, you will give the audience an experience - and you’ll feel it in the room…
 
Rctec said:
This happens to everybody. To me, lots of times. Often it’s just their fear of The New. But to solve it…Simple. Insist on a preview with the music you believe in. It has to be a proper preview with at least 500 people. I don’t want to mention names, but the amount of times I’ve been told I’m ruining the movie - and then the audience loved it, and we didn’t change a note.
But! You must be sure of why and how you’ve decided on every note and gesture in the music. It always has to be your point of view. Your ideas.
Of course, it goes without saying that the director has to agree and love your concepts. But it’s your job to push the boundaries, to take the director to a place beyond what he can musically imagine - and make perfect sense with the story-telling, editing and colour of the film.
And if it’s a truly committed score, you will give the audience an experience - and you’ll feel it in the room…
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Yes its happened to me before but not on such a level. The director loves it all - but obviously the producers have the last word, and they are trying to fix the scenes they are insecure about with music that they are as yet unable to define for longer than a week. As a composer I dont see its my job to spend weeks as a music editor trying endless combinations of 'try this bit here, this bit there. add some humour, take out the humour, add some propulsion etc Hmm - tricky one, its a nice film but where do you draw the line in terms of your time .
 
PaulLawler said:
Yes its happened to me before but not on such a level. The director loves it all - but obviously the producers have the last word, and they are trying to fix the scenes they are insecure about with music that they are as yet unable to define for longer than a week. As a composer I dont see its my job to spend weeks as a music editor trying endless combinations of 'try this bit here, this bit there. add some humour, take out the humour, add some propulsion etc Hmm - tricky one, its a nice film but where do you draw the line in terms of your time .
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I never have drawn the line or quit.
Music is pretty much indefensible. You can’t tell them to like it. All you can do is make them understand it through the eyes - well, ears really - of an impartial audience.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I always give the final say to the director. After all, he is my creative partner.
 
PaulLawler said:
As a composer I dont see its my job to spend weeks as a music editor trying endless combinations of 'try this bit here, this bit there. add some humour, take out the humour, add some propulsion etc Hmm - tricky one, its a nice film but where do you draw the line in terms of your time .
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Maybe try with some temp music to try to understand whay they want?
 
Rctec said:
I never have drawn the line or quit.
Music is pretty much indefensible. You can’t tell them to like it. All you can do is make them understand it through the eyes - well, ears really - of an impartial audience.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I always give the final say to the director. After all, he is my creative partner.
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Thanks for your wisdom, its really very much appreciated !
 
Rctec said:
Oh, I forgot to mention that I always give the final say to the director. After all, he is my creative partner.
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I agree with that. Usually if it's a good director with a backbone they will fight for their creative vision and if the money people such as producers and studios don't like the vision, they will take the blame for that too – and ideally the director will fight hard enough for the vision, going to bat for it on my behalf too so I don't have to, that the producers will either back down or they will find a middle ground which is more sensible than practically starting over.

I've been in scenarios, however, where they don't have a backbone, and I get thrown under the bus as if I made these decisions on my own. Or a director doesn't stand up for their original vision and allows the producers to plow over with a completely different direction and goes kind of silent after that point – at which point it kind of turns into a producer/studio's creative direction which can be unfortunate, especially if it comes down to going with safe, formulaic, previous references that worked, etc.

But nonetheless, when I'm working with a director who stands up for their vision, I see myself as on their team and give them the final say, and let them deal with a team of producers' wishy washy insanity. To OP's original question about director vs. producers, it's fairly common for this kind of thing to happen, where you work closely with just a director and get it to a point where they are really happy with the vision – and then the peanut gallery comes in and the real revision circus begins... 🤡
 
HZ is right, the only way to address their insecurity is to do a real preview. The director is on your side and likes your music. Producers don't care about the music (otherwise they'd have a definite creative note for you) they just worry that the movie isn't working!
 
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