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REVIEW: BBCSO Professional by Spitfire Audio

Rory said:
You are the one who decided to use scores out of ten. The problem is that your "score" doesn't survive examination as a matter of grade school arithmetic. See post #33.
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See post #37, " Of course the score is gonna get docked when I've had such a frustrating time with the plugin and have many other, fully efficient and stable plugins which work every time. Why would I treat this one company with kid gloves and not speak about the elephant in the room? That would be a dishonest review. "
 
Rory said:
The does not square with this statement:

"I’m just one dude ... who gets tired of professional reviews that are actually just extended advertisements for products."

The fact is, between your blog post and this thread, you have suggested no less than six times that your review is different from others because it is honest.
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Ok dude. Have a nice day :)
 
Markrs said:
I would say you weighed your score based on the areas that were most important to you. Nothing wrong with that in my view, weighting is common when evaluating things.
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The person who wrote this "review" chose to use the common scale of one to ten. It really shouldn't be necessary to explain this, but Wikipedia says this about such ratings:

"The scale has 10 as a maximum score, as a denotation of exceptionally high quality or of another attribute, usually accompanying 1 as its minimum, although some common variants have a minimum of 0."

The score for the samples was 7.75/10. The score for value for money is not transparent. Despite saying that the price of US$1000 is an "incredible value", at least for beginners, let's put that at 5/10. Let's also ignore that fact that he started his thread the day before the library will go on sale for $600.

This implies a score, also not transparent, for the Spitfire App of -6/10. Give value for money 8/10, and the score for the App goes to -9/10. If "incredible value" equals 9/10, we are, believe it or not, at -10/10 for the App.

There are two problems. The first is that scoring on a scale of one to ten does not normally include negative values. Wikipedia calls doing so "hyperbole". Personally, I have never seen anyone do it.

Secondly, as you suggest, the only way to make any sense of this "review" is to say that the evaluation of the criteria was weighted, and that the unstated, non-transparent score for the Spitfire App swamped everything else. @bfreepro does not say that in his "review".

This explanation does not address the basic problem, which is that his claims about problems with the App are such that many, if not most, of the users of BBC Pro on this forum should be making the same claims. As a simple matter of fact, that is not happening.
 
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Rory said:
The person who wrote this opinion chose to use the common scale of one to ten. This is what Wikipedia says about such ratings:

"The scale has 10 as a maximum score, as a denotation of exceptionally high quality or of another attribute, usually accompanying 1 as its minimum, although some common variants have a minimum of 0."

The score for the samples was 7.75/10. The score for value for money is not transparent. Despite saying that the price of US$1000 is an "incredible value", at least for beginners, let's put that at 5/10. Let's also ignore that fact that he started his thread the day before the library will go on sale for $600.

This implies a score, also not transparent, for the Spitfire App of -6/10. Give value for money 8/10, and the score for the App goes to -9/10.

There are two problems. The first is that scoring on a scale of one to ten does not normally include negative values. Wikipedia calls it hyperbole. Personally, I have never seen anyone do it.

Secondly, as you suggest, the only way to make any sense of this "review" is to say that the evaluation of the criteria was weighted, and that the unstated, non-transparent score for the Spitfire App swamped everything else. @bfreepro does not say that in his "review".

This explanation does not address the basic problem, which is that his claims about problems with the App are such that many of the users of BBC Pro on this forum should be making the same claims. As a simple matter of fact, they are not.
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Why are you the way that you are?
 
Markrs said:
I also think no one has to justify a review. In the end it is all just opinion which is highly subjective. Though it is good to hear different views on the same product. So this thread has been useful to me
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I welcome differing viewpoints! However I really despise the toxicity, condescension, etc. It does us all a disservice and contributes nothing to the conversation. Thanks to those of you who have been constructive and had a civil discussion like actual human beings. Enjoy the holidays!
 
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Mark_Kouznetsov said:
I love Spitfire's sound but their libraries have the same problems over and over again. Rarely fully fixed. Still, nowhere near 8Dio bad.
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I just bought the Century Strings and Brass 2.0 updates from 8Dio. The updates addressed the issues I had with the initial releases, and added some really nice new stuff. For me, at least, they are 'fully fixed.' I also updated a few of their other libraries that had newer versions released. 8Dio has offered significant updates to a lot of their libraries. I guess there's a debate to be had over 'how long should it take to update major products and is it bad to offer new products in the interim,' but that's going to vary a lot for different businesses operating under different conditions. And this is a BBCSO thread anyway.

I also bought BBCSO Pro, on pre-order. I have mixed feelings on it. My main complaint about it is that I have not yet had a moment where I felt BBCSO would be the best, most expressive choice available to me for any solo instrument or section it covers. It often feels too 'tame' for me. If all the instruments had a little extra oomph, with the capacity to deliver that burst of energy in the moments it is needed, I'd be a whole lot happier with it.

My other big issue is that despite BBCSO existing in a new, custom player, it does very little to advance the art of making instruments playable. Its approach is very conventional, defaulting to keyswitched patches. For a 'revolution' in VIs, my preference is for someone to merge the beautiful tone/room of a venue like Maida Vale or Abbey Road with the playability of Audio Modeling, Performance Samples, or Embertone's instruments. To me, Spitfire's performance legatos are good, but not great. OT's Capsule is more customizable (I hope they bring all of that into SINE). Virharmonic does an incredible job with their solo strings. If you gave me the full BBCSO in a system like Virharmonic's, that would be a dream, and would revolutionize my orchestral composing. The day I no longer have to Frankenstein-stitch articulations together will be a great day.

I've felt buyer's remorse on BBCSO Pro, but I also haven't taken the time (or had the time) to use it in its best context yet, and I feel that it could shine in certain cases. Kind of wish I could just trade it straight-up for Abbey Road, though (even if that, too, has its limits).

A colleague of mine recently did ask me what the best path into VIs was for someone starting from zero. Of course, it varies depending on the style of music you'll primarily compose. There's a ton of competition in the 'affordable all-in-one' market. OT's Berlin Inspire sounds more dynamic and expressive to me, based on demos (never used it). Audio Imperia's Nucleus also sounds great and would be a strong choice, especially on BF sale. That was my colleague's choice. EW's Composer Cloud also seems like a very strong choice for a beginner. BBCSO is a different sound entirely, and has its merits, but imo it is not an instrument for all occasions.
 
JoelS said:
I also bought BBCSO Pro, on pre-order. I have mixed feelings on it. My main complaint about it is that I have not yet had a moment where I felt BBCSO would be the best, most expressive choice available to me for any solo instrument or section it covers. It often feels too 'tame' for me. If all the instruments had a little extra oomph, with the capacity to deliver that burst of energy in the moments it is needed, I'd be a whole lot happier with it.


A colleague of mine recently did ask me what the best path into VIs was for someone starting from zero. Of course, it varies depending on the style of music you'll primarily compose. ... BBCSO is a different sound entirely, and has its merits, but imo it is not an instrument for all occasions.
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In the next few days, a lot of people will be deciding whether to purchase BBC SO. I think that your post, especially what I've quoted above, does a very nice job of setting out a particular perspective.

I don't think that there is a virtual orchestra in existence that does everything or fulfils everyone's preferences. As you suggest, choice of orchestral sample library depends, in part, on what kind of music one wants to compose. BBC SO is right for some, and probably the wrong choice for others. For example, Spitfire's Hans Zimmer Percussion sounds different from its Joby Burgess Percussion and Frank Ricotta Mallets. As a matter of personal taste, I preferred, and purchased, the latter two libraries. I don't doubt that there are many others who prefer the Hans Zimmer library.

Your last paragraph talks about people starting from zero. On this, I think that Spitfire is alone in the educational resources it offers. I'm not even talking about the free LABS libraries and the free BBC SO Discover. As valuable as it is to beginners, I am also not talking about the BBC SO template that Christian Henson and Jake Jackson developed, now available for the main DAWs. Between Christian Henson, Paul Thompson, Jake Jackson, Homay Schmitz, Louis Rugg, Oliver Weder and special guests, Spitfire publishes a wealth of video and other material of real assistance to beginning and intermediate composers. Nobody else is doing this. If the company is earning a competitive advantage, this is central to that advantage.
 
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Rory said:
In the next few days, a lot of people will be deciding whether to purchase BBC SO. I think that your post, especially what I've quoted above, does a very nice job of setting out a particular perspective.
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So, you are working for Spitfire and worry they will not make enough cash during BF? Otherwise, I do not get what your problem is ... I don't remember the OP going over all the post praising the library to the heavens and complaining about that. In fact, it is ALWAYS the other way around. Get over it! Some people may hate what you love ... just accept that!
 
MGdepp said:
So, you are working for Spitfire and worry they will not make enough cash during BF? Otherwise, I do not get what your problem is ... I don't remember the OP going over all the post praising the library to the heavens and complaining about that. In fact, it is ALWAYS the other way around. Get over it! Some people may hate what you love ... just accept that!
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Yup. If going by this forums standards, Majestica isn't a good library at all. Having just bought it, I'd say you all need to get those corks outta ya ears! :2thumbs:
 
José Herring said:
And Here's an example of BBCSO brass. Yes it does strain on the higher dynamics but it actually does extremely well in the lower to middle dynamics. (don't pay attention to the other instruments. I just worked exclusively on the brass).

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While I think you did a great job arranging that piece, the brass sounds pretty lackluster to my ears, especially at the lower dynamics.

Abbey, on the other hand sounds light years ahead of this.
 
I will add my mustard:

I find that the review reflects a lot of what I see. The strings and the woodwinds are the parts I like best, especially the strings.
Percussion is okay, but not outstanding. Brass, if it doesn't go beyond the middle dynamic range is okay. The solo horn is actually ... meeeeh. I find the legatos sometimes like this and sometimes like that.

Basically I find the reduced pre offer price a fair offer. About the marketing of Spitfire I have talked about in the BBCSO thread and I don't want to repeat that here, except that I consider the library to be the most exaggerated hyped library.

Now I find that you can argue about many things. Arguing about a preview makes no sense. If the person who wrote the preview feels that way, then it is absolutely ok. If the reader of the preview sees it differently, then that's fine too!

For me, the state of a library is mostly shown by how and how often I use it. And BBCSO Pro is one of the dust catchers. Despite the template, I prefer to work with other libraries whose player software I like more and which support my workflow more like: Synchron Player, Kontakt and even Play!

The concept of the Spitfire Player is not a complete one. Using 2 articulations at the same time is cool, but only if I can automate this feature. I've never done it without the option (or alt) key on my computer keyboard. And if these articulations are not on the same page and I have to turn the pages, it gets confusing.
Activate/deactivate articulations: Why not like in the Kontakt Libriaries at the articulation? Why in another place?
Just as an example.

The time I invest to get a setup and result that I have in mind takes too long and I end up exchanging many instruments for others from other libraries. In the end, only a fraction of the full orchestra is left and the hype about the full orchestra with its unique surround sound and 20 mic positions is gone.

I still hope that Spitfire is working on the "solvable" problem of the BBCSO. But it leaves a bad feeling when new orchestral libraries are released within a year and the problems of the existing libraries are solved at a snail's pace.
I'm supposed to pay a lot of extra dollars to get the Aperture Orchestra (the Aperture strings were withheld from pre-sale buyers)... Yes, I'd like to, but not at the conditions Spitfire is calling for.

Unfortunately, Spitfire has lost a lot of credit with me and the bottom line is that I'm avoiding the marketing hype and don't buy anything from them anymore, even though there are great new libraries. I also have my principles and can live with them, no matter how much someone wants to tell me that I should find it good.

Objective and subjective opinions are interdependent.
 
bfreepro said:
I welcome differing viewpoints! However I really despise the toxicity, condescension, etc. It does us all a disservice and contributes nothing to the conversation. Thanks to those of you who have been constructive and had a civil discussion like actual human beings. Enjoy the holidays!
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I stand by what i said but I do want to offer an apology. After reading it again when not dead tired I realized that the article doesn't come across as harsh as I initially thought.

We all have our bad moments and last night was probably as bad as I get.
 
By the way, in case you missed it on another thread....updated content has been listed on the spitfire pages for BBCSO.

Confirmed- For example...Pro is getting 35gb of muted brass content.
 
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