REVIEW: BBCSO Professional by Spitfire Audio

[DS_Joost]

Actually, that was in reference to those who were, shall we say, a little too passionate in their responses to Mr. Free's review. It is now in reference to you too, as it turns out.

Then I shall pull in my accusations and apologize for misunderstanding.

 

[Michaelt]

Then I shall pull in my accusations and apologize for misunderstanding.

Oh, don't worry about it! It may, though, be worth considering that not everyone who disagrees with you is a shill or something, despite me inviting that interpretation of my disagreements with Mr. Free in my initial post... I didn't *really* mean it, and it isn't exactly a good look for your particular "side" in the disagreement.

 

[method1]

Some talented people can make a behringer guitar with one string and bad intonation do amazing things.
Excellent results can be obtained with "imperfect" libraries that have similar problems.
It's still reasonable to expect a certain level of QA even when buying that behringer guitar though.

In general I agree that BBCSO and several other SFA products have technical issues.
Is there not some middle ground where we can address that ongoing issue with SFA while still appreciating the wonderful tonality and creativity they bring to their products?
Too often it seems to me that extreme opinions prevail, with some unwilling to recognise any faults and others missing out on the goodies to be had beyond the flaws.

Happy BF everyone!

 

[Rory]

It may, though, be worth considering that not everyone who disagrees with you is a shill or something

Don't sweat it. One of the participants in this thread has asserted that I'm actually a Spitfire employee. It goes along with asserting that Spitfire deliberately planted a kernel of info on its site as part of a marketing plan, expecting the kernel would be discovered by a Core user and raised in a post on this forum. It also goes along with the apparent belief that peppering this thread with Ha!Ha! and Sad! emojis (hearts, not just likes, for people who agree with you) makes one look like a grownup rather than a four year old. Of course, as the author of this review has pointed out repeatedly, he has right on his side, being, unlike others, honest.

Over the next month, a fair number of people will decide whether to purchase BBC SO. I doubt that they'll be giving this review, the conspiracy theories, the declarations of purity and the prepubescent use emojis a whole lot of weight.

 

[ed buller]

Dude you come across as a shill... just saying...

oh please....name calling ?

 

[bfreepro]

Don't sweat it. One of the participants in this thread has asserted that I'm actually a Spitfire employee. It goes along with asserting that Spitfire deliberately planted a kernel of info on its site as part of a marketing plan, expecting the kernel would be discovered by a Core user and raised in a post on this forum. It also goes along with the apparent belief that peppering this thread with Ha!Ha! and Sad! emojis (hearts, not just likes, for people who agree with you) makes one look like a grownup rather than a four year old. Of course, as the author of this review has pointed out repeatedly, he has right on his side, being, unlike others, honest.

Over the next month, a fair number of people will decide whether to purchase BBC SO. I doubt that they'll be giving this review, the conspiracy theories, the declarations of purity and the prepubescent use emojis a whole lot of weight.

Oh Rory, if you were as critical and analytical with the library as you are with my review and the interactions and responses stemming from it, we’d actually probably be on the same page!

 

[bfreepro]

Actually, that was in reference to those who were, shall we say, a little too passionate in their responses to Mr. Free's review. It is now in reference to you too, as it turns out.

It’s Freeland

 

[Michaelt]

It’s Freeland

Not Freepro, then? Good thing I didn't go with that.

 

[xguitaristx]

I don't really agree with this, nor with much of the other typical talk about Spitfire Hype. Spitfire advertises and markets. Forums hype.

"To sound like a film score, you NEED to go where film makers go, with the same players, playing the same instruments".

"It's all about to CHANGE"

“To have all i need at my fingertips in one single plugin is a GAME CHANGER.”

" To usher in this new epoch, we have created a dedicated library that encompasses this new, beautiful REVOLUTION."

"This selection of instantly gratifying, progressive techniques is all you're going to need to take your scores into the next decade. Be part of the REVOLUTION!"

You're not wrong in saying that forums hype, because they do!

But unless you really believe that Neo is somehow revolutionary, or BBCSO is a game changer, or "you need to go where film makers go, with the same players, playing the same instruments" in order to sound like a film score, then you're just ignoring the hype that's clearly embedded in their marketing.

I mean, i can't necessarily knock SA for exaggerating their products. Just about every major retailer does this. It's what marketing is! I've never seen a Big Mac look the way it does in the commercials, and I'm not expecting it to, just like how I'm not expecting my music to sound like a film score if I buy SSS.

 

[Rory]

if you were as critical and analytical of the library as you are with my review and the interactions and responses stemming from it, we’d actually probably be on the same page!

You and the gentleman who asserted that I work for Spitfire are not only on thin ice, you've fallen clear through.

In June, I started a thread for the express purpose of voicing dissatisfaction with certain behaviour of the Spitfire App. Unless you live under a rock, you know that both SINE and the Spitfire App are relatively new and are going through growing pains. There is also a view, which I share, that they are important to competition in the virtual instrument market space, and should be supported.

Spitfire took my concerns, and the lengthy discussion that ensued, seriously enough that it posted directly to the thread. The difference between that thread and your so-called review, and this thread that you specifically titled in relation to the current sale, is that the concerns that I expressed were focused and properly documented. For that reason, and to its credit, Spitfire took the thread seriously, acknowledged that there were issues and said that it will be working on them. I have had dealings with Spitfire support since that have been extremely satisfactory.

In the thread that I started, there were a few people, some of them well known on here, who attempted to dismiss what I was saying. That kind of fell flat when Spitfire decided to take the thread seriously. However, there was another difference, apart from focus and fact-based analysis, that distinguished that thread from this one. Nobody was engaging in the kind of juvenile behaviour that you and a number of others have engaged in here.

You and your posse are self-destructing just about every time you open your mouths.

 

[Michaelt]

I mean, i can't necessarily knock SA for exaggerating their products. Just about every major retailer does this.

Exactly, that's all I'm saying, that I think there is a distinction between hype inherent in marketing and hype/expectations that people stir up of their own accord.

Developers can say whatever they want, and it's up to us to either buy into it fully or take it with the appropriate and understandable grain of salt. Though I do genuinely think there's something "game changing" about BBCSO, however amorphous a phrase that is, and I do think there's something to be said for getting session players in an oft-used space to get a particular filmic sound. Don't have Neo though, so I can neither confirm nor deny a revolution.

 

[gives19]

Yes and that’s coming up as my next review, wanted to get this one out of the way first. IMO Abbey Road is infinitely more useful. Probably the most realistic samples I’ve heard to date. The thing I like about is, it’s an incredible foundation for sketching, then you can fill in the details with your own favorite libraries.The foundation of your track will have that beautiful Abbey Road ambience to it, which you can easily match with reverbs and careful placement. In my opinion it’s always easier to start with a broad strokes library recorded in a good space, then layer in the details. There’s no other library that has the same ambience and tone as abbey road, but it’s really easy to blend it all together when you build a track around it.

I totally agree. That is the one to get IMHO. I was hedging at first but the more I researched it and see that they will probably update and add things to it, I decided to grab it. Also it's the room that sounds really good!

 

[xguitaristx]

Exactly, that's all I'm saying, that I think there is a distinction between hype inherent in marketing and hype/expectations that people stir up of their own accord.

Fair enough. I just got the impression from your post that Spitfire doesn't hype their products, but forums do.

 

[Michaelt]

Nah, a few times I tried to make that distinction clear, lest anyone think what you thought:

Everything is teased and announced these days, but not everything gets a megathread.

In fact, I can't really think of any developer in this niche that I'd say is guilty of hyping beyond a reasonable, expected degree.

Of course I get [how marketing hype works], but how people respond to that, and to the responses of others, is their own responsibility....

 

[dcoscina]

I'm in the camp that sees the value of BBCSO. I've worked with real orchestras and find the sound of BBC to be largely more accurate and faithful compared to other libraries that cater to a hyped/amped production sound. To me, BBCSO is as much a compositional learning resource as it is a tool. It rewards those who apply traditional orchestration technique to it, and it blends like almost no other library I've worked with. But I'm mostly doing concert music or commercial music that leans on those influences. I don't need FFFFFFF horns or whatever. The horns a4 sound quite nice in my opinion. The solo is a little wanting but arranged properly, it's still usable.

Now will I jump to Abbey Road One modular whenever it comes out? For film score fare, in a hot minute! It's more dynamic and brings that cinematic tone to the table. But I would still use BBCSO for mock ups to give orchestras (or StaffPad but that's another topic). And use it on commercial work that needs some subtlety

 

[bfreepro]

I'm in the camp that sees the value of BBCSO. I've worked with real orchestras and find the sound of BBC to be largely more accurate and faithful compared to other libraries that cater to a hyped/amped production sound. To me, BBCSO is as much a compositional learning resource as it is a tool. It rewards those who apply traditional orchestration technique to it, and it blends like almost no other library I've worked with. But I'm mostly doing concert music or commercial music that leans on those influences. I don't need FFFFFFF horns or whatever. The horns a4 sound quite nice in my opinion. The solo is a little wanting but arranged properly, it's still usable.

Now will I jump to Abbey Road One modular whenever it comes out? For film score fare, in a hot minute! It's more dynamic and brings that cinematic tone to the table. But I would still use BBCSO for mock ups to give orchestras (or StaffPad but that's another topic). And use it on commercial work that needs some subtlety

Thanks for your thoughts and explanation. I definitely see the value in it too and certainly appreciate the concept.

 

[Michaelt]

To me, BBCSO is as much a compositional learning resource as it is a tool. It rewards those who apply traditional orchestration technique to it, and it blends like almost no other library I've worked with.

This embodies what I'd say is the "game changing" thing about it.

More than anything else commercially available that I've used or seen used, this thing plays exactly the way you'd expect it to from the perspective of someone writing at a desk for a real orchestra. The recordings have a really remarkable sense of clarity and dimension, and it is pretty much accurately balanced... god, what a relief that is! NOBODY ever gets that right out of the box, even those who claim to, and it is a pain to rectify. And yes, there is some sense that these people, for whom playing with each other is second nature, bring this "oneness" to their performances, even when playing isolated notes to be sampled. Hence the unusually convincing blend when good writing/orchestration are applied.

Are these things typically valued by virtual instrument users, particularly when other more commonly prized attributes are given less attention? Maybe not by the majority, no, but it certainly feels to me like there's a demographic of composers for whom this is a total dream, and it isn't just the beginners who get something complete and as "reliable" as a virtual orchestra can be from a learning perspective.

I didn't want to use any of this stuff when I was starting out. I was a "by hand" person and it was only grudgingly that I accepted the necessity of embracing this technology. BBCSO is one of the things that's helped me enjoy it all a little more. I doubt I'll ever not have to worry about fighting with samples for one reason or another, but I'm doing it a hell of a lot less now.

 

[axb312]

Thanks for your review @bfreepro

 

[erikradbo]

There is some fascinating spirit on this forum, that everybody is speaking freely about libraries, including bashing them, but as soon as that is about a SA library someone will get triggered by it.

Increasingly the marketing departments in large corporations have focused on influencing the opinion through new channels. It’s not something they brag about but it’s also not a secret. Sample libraries are nowadays big business and there are many big companies with huge marketing budgets, and one of the the biggest marketing division in the industry is no doubt the one over at SA.

Of course they have people trying to steer the opinion away from negative criticism and question bad reviews of their products, since that’s their job. Of course these people work through different channels such as social media and forums. This is not to accuse anyone or make any company look bad, no more so than accusing any other marketing efforts; they are not good or bad per se. But as a consumer it would be naive to believe this industry would be any different than other with big money involved. Influencers are very well paid for a reason.

No more than everything being said in a tv ad is necessarily true, the opinions in forums and social media is not always the thoughts of a single mind. This is of course not only true for SA but lots of other manufacturers as well. Criticism against some companies seems to always be drowned in a sea of disagreement.

 

[Michaelt]

Remarkable that known forum members disagreeing over a review sparks musings about developer sleeper agents. I know (hope?) you're not suggesting that's what's going on here, and of course it's not a far fetched idea in general, but man... we have gotten so creative when it comes to ways in which we can brush aside and delegitimize unwelcome opinions and ideas.

You got me, I'm a paid shill. Does that make your lives a bit easier? Let's move on from it then.