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PC Build - DDR5 XMP, 128GB?

Nimrod7

Nimrod7

Bill Kastanakis
Hello,

I am thinking of building a PC with 13Gen Intel CPU 13900K and a Z790 chipset motherboard.

My understanding is that DDR5 + XMP is no really viable at the moment. I read a lot about instabilities with 4 DDR5 modules installed in the system and the difficulties to get them to the advertised speeds (I think above 4800 MHz).

I want to ask our PC build enthusiasts, about their view on:

- Getting 4 DIMM 128GB and keep XMP off. What's the impact on performance? Is it so drastic that I really make no sense to do something like this? What's the impact in performance? 10%, 20%? Any specific applications that are impacted more than others?

- Anyone runs a DDR5 128GB system? What have you done? Do you have XMP on?

I am researching this topic for a few days now, and I didn't find any concrete answers. There are some YouTube manual tweaks that are made 4 DIMMs DDR5 work with XMP on, but I am debating the stability over time. Some users said that is stable for some time, then gets unstable. The last thing I want is to have a high maintenance system.

Thank you all for the input.
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Yeah, using all 4 slots is an issue for DDR5. Losing the ability to overclock the memory as a result is a negligible loss in performance, particularly when weighed against the loss of system stability (or being able to post) when attempting to do so.
 
CSS_SCC said:
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Wendel's video is excellent. (All his videos rock! What a brain)
the IGPU stuff is super interesting.

Its worth keeping in mind that as composers, the RAM speed - while somewhat important, doesn't matter as MUCH as other applications (gaming!). So, if you need to take a speed hit in order to get the amount of RAM you need, go for it.
I had the same situation when installing 128GB ram into the 2013 Mac Pro (which officially only went to 64GB). Turned out it WAS possbile, but with higher ram latency, and running it at a slower pace.

We had both 64GB (apple ram) version of mac pro's at the studios, and my (OWC ram upgrade) mac doing similar things, and I could not notice ANY real world difference even though from the perspective of tech journos, there was SIGNIFICANT performance differences (worse!) going to the 128GB.
 
What is the point getting DDR5 which is much more expensive with a more expensive motherboard? Will it actually be a noticeable difference compared to 128GB DDR4 for audio?

I let myself be convinced to buy a Gigabyte Z790 D DDR4 board with a kit of 4 Kingston 3200mhz 32gb dimms. The Z790 DDR5 system with ASUS Creator mobo i wanted to build at first costs 3600 Euro and i reduced it now to 2700 while still running a 13900k. Probably in the next year or 2 you have 64gb dimms so you can run 128gb on two slots. i don't see the 4 slot problem be solved soon.
 
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Enfurio said:
What is the point getting DDR5 which is much more expensive with a more expensive motherboard? Will it actually be a noticeable difference compared to 128GB DDR4 for audio?

I let myself be convinced to buy a Gigabyte Z790 D DDR4 board with a kit of 4 Kingston 3200mhz 32gb dimms. The Z790 DDR5 system with ASUS Creator mobo i wanted to build at first costs 3600 Euro and i reduced it now to 2700 while still running a 13900k. When 64gb dimms will arrive this will change no doubt.
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It's two-fold, you're leaving performance on the table, and at some point platforms that utilize DDR4 will be replaced by their DDR5 counterparts.
One could also argue that the enthusiast market is what drives innovation. Practically speaking, however, it's a matter of future proofing, and the DDR5 platform will outlast its predecessor strictly speaking.
I will concede that there is a ceiling for realized performance with regards to heavy sample library usage, one which is difficult to quantify meaningfully, but we are swiftly approaching diminishing returns. For those that work with video as well, 4k60fps and beyond can yet still benefit from faster components.
 
I'm using 128 GB DDR5 at 4800 MHz in a 13900k. They're 6000 MHz chips but I could never get them to run at that speed. IIRC it was the memory controller that was the issue - it wouldn't run any faster than the stock 4800 MHZ.

The good news is I've not seen any evidence that RAM speed has an effect on DAW performance these days.
 
Semarus said:
predecessor strictly speaking.
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Semarus said:
It's two-fold, you're leaving performance on the table, and at some point platforms that utilize DDR4 will be replaced by their DDR5 counterparts.
One could also argue that the enthusiast market is what drives innovation. Practically speaking, however, it's a matter of future proofing, and the DDR5 platform will outlast its predecessor strictly speaking.
I will concede that there is a ceiling for realized performance with regards to heavy sample library usage, one which is difficult to quantify meaningfully, but we are swiftly approaching diminishing returns. For those that work with video as well, 4k60fps and beyond can yet still benefit from faster components.
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That is the whole question, do i leave performance on the table strictly audio speaking? I just don't think so. I also don't think i will need to upgrade the new system until it breaks down 5-6 years from now, so no need to future proof it. I build a new pc every 5-6 years. It's hard for me to justify the extra costs. For what? Would i notice lets say (reduced) 4800mhz ddr5 compared to 3200 ddr4 in a heavy template?
 
Enfurio said:
That is the whole question, do i leave performance on the table strictly audio speaking? I just don't think so. I also don't think i will need to upgrade the new system until it breaks down 5-6 years from now, so no need to future proof it. It's hard for me to justify the extra costs. For what? Would i notice lets say reduced 4800mhz ddr5 compared to 3200 ddr4 in a heavy template?
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I get what you're saying, but indeed, what is the question? How does DDR5 benefit you with a newer build who has no need to upgrade anyway, or how does it benefit the OP (whose original build was unstated) or anyone else in pursuit of a brand new build on the Z790 platform, which I thought was the context of this forum post?
 
Semarus said:
I get what you're saying, but indeed, what is the question? How does DDR5 benefit you with a newer build who has no need to upgrade anyway, or how does it benefit the OP (whose original build was unstated) or anyone else in pursuit of a brand new build on the Z790 platform, which I thought was the context of this forum post?
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Well the only thing i wanted to do to bring forth an argument for the OP to choose DDR4 and reduce his costs while on the other hand i`m searching for any reason why someone would choose 4 dimms DDR5 even if you cannot run it at full speed (where you pay for). I did not place the order for the new system yet. i`m not 100% sure.
 
I have already seen 48GB RAM modules on pre order at just under £200.
Current motherboards will support these.
So this offers more options if you want higher capacities regardless of whether you use two or four sticks.
 
Scan audio has some benchmarks of this DDR4/5 thingy in a video. DDR4 performs the same as DDR5 in audio and fx plugins but in VST sample based instruments DDR5 way outperformed DDR4. If 48GB dimms are already around the corner, DDR5 it will be!
 
I dont get it, can anyone explain:

a) why DDR5 (4 ram sticks) does not work with XMP ? Is that technology not developed by intel to work with the latest (raptor lake) cpus for easy overclocking ?
b) What would you do with 48GB sticks ? would you install 3 DDR5 sticks for a total of 144 GB RAM but only be using the maximum supported 128GB of RAM for the Raptor Lake CPU with functioning XMP Overclock Support?
c) Does Raptor Lake DDR4 4ram Sticks work without problems with XMP overclock?
Thanks a lot
Cheers, lokotus
 
lokotus said:
I dont get it, can anyone explain:

a) why DDR5 (4 ram sticks) does not work with XMP ? Is that technology not developed by intel to work with the latest (raptor lake) cpus for easy overclocking ?
b) What would you do with 48GB sticks ? would you install 3 DDR5 sticks for a total of 144 GB RAM but only be using the maximum supported 128GB of RAM for the Raptor Lake CPU with functioning XMP Overclock Support?
c) Does Raptor Lake DDR4 4ram Sticks work without problems with XMP overclock?
Thanks a lot
Cheers, lokotus
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For question b and c:

b) Buying 2x 48GB gives you stable ram above 64GB. It's not 128 DDR5 (what some guys need) but at least you can use the 96GB to full potential (XMP 3.0 included). I think there are stability/speed issue's running three sticks.
c) XMP 3.0 is not supported for DDR4, XMP 2.0 intel technology works.
 
thanks now I know that xmp has a now 3.0 version... could a bios update or firmware update in the motherboard help in the future to fully support 4xddr5 for 128GB in total with xmp 3.0 or are more obvious reasons like bad architecture / hardware temperature etc... the reason for it not working ? it just doesn't get into my head why raptor lake has no improvement over this in comparison with alder lake.... it was so easy to setup and deal with xmp on my older x99 motherboard :):)
 
lokotus said:
thanks now I know that xmp has a now 3.0 version... could a bios update or firmware update in the motherboard help in the future to fully support 4xddr5 for 128GB in total with xmp 3.0 or are more obvious reasons like bad architecture / hardware temperature etc... the reason for it not working ? it just doesn't get into my head why raptor lake has no improvement over this in comparison with alder lake.... it was so easy to setup and deal with xmp on my older x99 motherboard :):)
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You must update your bios, that is the first priority. HERE is a video with a guy that managed to get 128GB DDR5 running at max speeds using Asus Creator Z790 board with kit of 4 6000mhz Kingston Fury.
 
lokotus said:
thanks now I know that xmp has a now 3.0 version... could a bios update or firmware update in the motherboard help in the future to fully support 4xddr5 for 128GB in total with xmp 3.0 or are more obvious reasons like bad architecture / hardware temperature etc... the reason for it not working ? it just doesn't get into my head why raptor lake has no improvement over this in comparison with alder lake.... it was so easy to setup and deal with xmp on my older x99 motherboard :):)
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DDR5 is a very different design, so it may be an inherent limitation or it could well evolve significantly over time as is usually the case with a new memory standard.
It's also down to the memory controllers which are built into the CPUs.
 
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