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Payment schedule? Up front pay?

Just to make that clear: With F themselves, of course I don´t write or say that to a potential customer, that was paraphrasing but I think only. I would say in such cases:
"Dear Sir or Madam,

I appreciate your interest in asking me to work on your project unfortunately that is not gonna happen because of this and that.."

However everybody is different and let me tell you: I work also for people with no upfront payment but 1). I am know them very good and 2nd) I know them for years so I have a strong relation to them and can assure they don´t screw me over about not paying me for my service.

What you do or don´t is up to you guys, of course and I am know speaking of e.g. library music market and placement payment you have to wait for the money to come in. And I am not speaking here of universal, and Sony (they will pay you) but of small indy people who are hiring you guys. And you don´t know anything about of their reputation, even smaller indy devs teams? Sorry, I have seen a couple of times huge crap that people got screwed over and so I am saying: Be a bit careful. What you do of course is of to everyone self. And John G and some others: Asking for and upfront payment has nothing to do with beeing on a financial desperation...it is therefore to cover at least your own costs and worktime you put into something as a security option in case the projects bombs or is cancelled or the client decides something else. For nothing else but that. Having said that: People who I work on a constant base also ask me if I need some of the budget upfront. Yes that are relation which are gold imo. In such cases I often say: Thats fine..lets do the payment after I am done. I know that it is not easy to find reliable people just because people are not (unfortunately) reliable. In a perfect world that would be no question. But it is not.
 
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AlexanderSchiborr said:
Asking for and upfront payment has nothing to do with beeing on a financial desperation...
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I'm pleased for you Alexander but the OP did imply that he would have to ask for exactly that reason.

It is interesting to see the number of composers here who plainly do ask/get/expect something upfront. It's not something I was aware of from my own & friends experience.

To the OP, I guess it would be wise to have a solid answer ready when they come back and ask why they should pay upfront.
 
chrisr said:
I'm pleased for you Alexander but the OP did imply that he would have to ask for exactly that reason.

It is interesting to see the number of composers here who plainly do ask/get/expect something upfront. It's not something I was aware of from my own & friends experience.

To the OP, I guess it would be wise to have a solid answer ready when they come back and ask why they should pay upfront.
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Ah yes, thats right. I see. I just wanted to say that this is not always the case why people asking for that giving my few thoughts why that is. And before someone gets that wrong: I don´t expect anything. I have no expactation from no one to do so. I simply set my own rules, thats it how I work to prevent problems.
 
I personally find upfront sums as completely normal.

Sure, if you know the people well, you go without, but with most jobs I did for video games and small media, I either had milestone payments or an upfront "kill fee" negotiated.

Such milestones can absolutely be, if you're contracted for a 10 episode run, one-two episodes up front, the rest after completion - it's totally dependent on negotiation. Ir Milestone on delivery, and on the delivery of the sketch or however you work. E.g. I often made two milestones and a kill fee. The Kill fee being a fixed amount or % of the overall fee, and Milestone A, first delivery (sketches or whatever you want to call it) and Milestone B, delivery of the finished music incl. stems if needed. So essentially, one "midterm" and one on completion.

The reason is not "I need the money", but there because I worked with complete strangers, whom I've never met personally, so that was my insurance, and also the clients' insurance in a way - if either one of us breaches the contract, I fire them or they fire me. The kill fee is paid upfront on the signing of the contract and kept if they breach the contract or similar things. If I fire the client I give it back. And if all goes well, it's deducted from the final bill, simple as that.

Since you said they are friends, I think you wouldn't wave a kill fee in their faces, that could come off very cocky. But asking for a first "upstart fee" could work - you know, like

- Upfront fee, 50% of the first episodes fee
- Rest after completion
and then go on with full fee after completion, or create a mid-work Milestone, whatever helps you and the client best.

My two cents from my limited viewpoint ;)
 
Lol, asking for an upfront payment is not begging. :) come on. We need guarantees, we have invoices to pay. Everything is negotiable. How about no upfront payment and then not getting paid? I take an upfront payment as a sign of good faith. I don’t need it for clients I trust, but any contractor can be in a financial impasse and there is no shame to it, so some time I might still ask for an advance even with trusted clients.
 
I feel like I just watched mommy and daddy argue at the dinner table after I told them I got punched at school. It seemed at first like they were talking to me. It took me a long time to realize that they weren’t. In fact I could tell that they had forgotten I was at the table at all, which is great because it meant I didn’t have to eat the Brussel sprouts. Brussel sprouts are so disgusting I thought to myself. Who knew that they would become one of my favorite things as a grown-up! Apparently there are better ways to prepare them than just boiling the crap out of them and removing all the flavor. Like roasting them in the oven for example, and drizzling balsamic vinegar over them when they come out all crispy and delicious. Mmmmm.
 
Bropecia said:
I feel like I just watched mommy and daddy argue at the dinner table after I told them I got punched at school. It seemed at first like they were talking to me. It took me a long time to realize that they weren’t. In fact I could tell that they had forgotten I was at the table at all, which is great because it meant I didn’t have to eat the Brussel sprouts. Brussel sprouts are so disgusting I thought to myself. Who knew that they would become one of my favorite things as a grown-up! Apparently there are better ways to prepare them than just boiling the crap out of them and removing all the flavor. Like roasting them in the oven for example, and drizzling balsamic vinegar over them when they come out all crispy and delicious. Mmmmm.
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FWIW, I like to fry them with bacon. Everything tastes better with bacon.
And you described any thread over a couple of pages long.. ;)
 
It's -- the internet. You ask for advice on a situation involving money and then you have to decide to whom you want to listen. Or none of it.

Good luck.
 
Me either, just thought it was a little funny. Definitely helpful. And I know it’s just because mommy and daddy care so much.
 
i wouldn't take any of the advice in this thread (including my own) however I would insist on roasting those Brussel sprouts in the oven AND drizzling balsamic vinegar over them. Mmmmm.
 
You are lucky it’s on topic at least oh wait you just went off topic yourself.
 
To follow up...

I initially reached out to my series producer contact letting him know (via email) that I was okay with the proposed 'per episode' fee, to which I counter proposed a payment schedule based less on benchmarks and more on time frame. That's when I used the 'upon commencement' language for my 30% up front payment. He replied, saying it was fine by him, but that the final decision was up to the studio, and he gave me the studio's accounting contact. I said 'fine, I'll send an invoice preemptively, please cc my attorney when you guys send the contract'. He gave me the thumbs up. I sent the invoice and they paid me the commencement fee within two weeks. Incidentally, I also wrote on the invoice that I had been developing themes and doing presentation pilot cue rewrites for the last month, so that might have helped.

Figured some who responded might want to know how it went, and again I really appreciate everyone weighing in on the matter. I realize it will be different from network to network but that's what happened here. And this was without engaging my friends who are the EP's. They weren't even privy to this back and forth which I actually prefer.

Lastly, one thing I was emboldened by was this series of composer contract breakdowns via a new york state bar blog, written by a couple of music attorneys. The contracts within indicate a 'commencement fee' which was language I was happy to see! The analysis was focussed on film, but it was good enough for me.

https://nysbar.com/blogs/EASL/2015/09/the_11_contracts_every_artist_1.html

Thanks all! Go vote!
 
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