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Orchestral Tools Glory Days: MIDI Files and Tutorials?

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Suntower

New Member
Just purchased the above lib. Boy, the sounds are every bit as good as the videos. HOWEVER there are no included MIDI examples and literally -no- docs! (They claim it's because they're redoing their web site. Come -on-!)

Anyone got any MIDI files or other insights on how to use this thing beyond trial and error?

TIA,

---JC

PS: Yeah, again I have a snarky tone... this is one of my HUGE peeves about sample lib devs. It's just unconscionable to me how sample devs do these elaborate videos and then provide literally -zero- information on how to actually -use- the thing.

PPS: I used to get SOOOOOOOOOOO upset with VSL for their arrogance and high prices, but looking back, they always provided a wealth of MIDI examples and tutorials. Perhaps one gets what one pays for. (sigh)
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VSL used to have a whole bunch of examples.

Toontrack, Scarbee... pretty much any decent drum lib

I'm just stunned that this is a shrug for so many people. Those examples save -ages- getting up to speed.

JohnBMears said:
How many different orchestral sample libraries have you bought that included MIDI files from the developers?
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Suntower said:
VSL used to have a whole bunch of examples.

Toontrack, Scarbee... pretty much any decent drum lib

I'm just stunned that this is a shrug for so many people. Those examples save -ages- getting up to speed.
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James H said:
Still do, click the little button next to the track. Great dev
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I'm under the impression that the OP is asking not for DEMOs of the library in action (which of course everyone would need to have) but downloadable raw MIDI files that you'd simply plug into your DAW and load a patch to get a performance. Cinematic Studio folks did that for Strings... For brass, strings and woodwinds, I'm not sure what you'd want programmed out in a MIDI file? a chord progression? a melody? A full blown orchestral rendering of someone else's composition?
 
I'll be releasing a track soon using mainly Glory Days. I used a ton of keyswitches, which took a lot of time, but John (above) mentioned articulation sets in Logic, which I have to check out. Those seem like a great idea for a library like this.
 
JohnBMears said:
I'm under the impression that the OP is asking not for DEMOs of the library in action (which of course everyone would need to have) but downloadable raw MIDI files that you'd simply plug into your DAW and load a patch to get a performance. Cinematic Studio folks did that for Strings... For brass, strings and woodwinds, I'm not sure what you'd want programmed out in a MIDI file? a chord progression? a melody? A full blown orchestral rendering of someone else's composition?
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Again, I'm just gobsmacked that no one else seems to get why MIDI examples are necessary.

Just one example: I have maybe 8 drum libs. They -all- require very different programming to obtain a full variety of realistic rudiments. When the developer provides MIDI examples, it saves DOZENS of hours of trial and error to obtain best results. I don't need their examples as a 'construction set' if that's what people here think. I need it to use the thing to its full potential.

Similarly, VSL strings respond -very- differently from LASS. When I got LASS I wasted hours trying to figure out how to make certain figures work. After much pleading, they send me some examples and -presto- I was in business.

Without proper examples, you're kinda limited to what you can do. But if you have a suite of 'how tos', you then can simply -compose-. And isn't that the whole point of buying a lib?
 
Suntower said:
Again, I'm just gobsmacked that no one else seems to get why MIDI examples are necessary.
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I think it's less that people don't understand why they'd be helpful (if not necessary) just more confused about why you seem so shocked a company doesn't do it when really it's more the exception to the rule.
 
prodigalson said:
I think it's less that people don't understand why they'd be helpful (if not necessary) just more confused about why you seem so shocked a company doesn't do it when really it's more the exception to the rule.
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I didn't realise it was the exception until very recently. OTOH, I don't buy lots of libs. I started with things like Garritan, VSL, Superior which all had extensive MIDI examples.
 
Suntower said:
Again, I'm just gobsmacked that no one else seems to get why MIDI examples are necessary.

Just one example: I have maybe 8 drum libs. They -all- require very different programming to obtain a full variety of realistic rudiments. When the developer provides MIDI examples, it saves DOZENS of hours of trial and error to obtain best results. I don't need their examples as a 'construction set' if that's what people here think. I need it to use the thing to its full potential.

Similarly, VSL strings respond -very- differently from LASS. When I got LASS I wasted hours trying to figure out how to make certain figures work. After much pleading, they send me some examples and -presto- I was in business.

Without proper examples, you're kinda limited to what you can do. But if you have a suite of 'how tos', you then can simply -compose-. And isn't that the whole point of buying a lib?
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I‘m a bit torn. I can understand what you’re saying. If you watch the Junkie XL walkthrough, you can see all the articulation switching in each line. It gives you a good feel for how those articulations sound. That being said, I suppose it’s cool to check out what someone else has done, but realistically the best way to learn a library is to play with it. I think that's how most people learn. However, if companies are confident in their product, it shouldn’t be too big of a deal to post a couple midi tracks. I’m not sure I would personally download many, though.
 
The short answer is because the majority of their customers don't ask for it Orchestral Tools as the name implies cater to more orchestral libraries and not at a low price too so almost all of people buying them either already know how they'd use them or would discover it along the way i'm sure if more people demanded it they'd release more midi examples with the libraries but from a business stand point why would they make something that nobody asked for
Toontrack on the other hand are targeting drummers, non-drummers and song-writers so the wealth of midi patterns is their to entice them that they don't have to know how to play drums to get a use out of it
 
mralmostpopular said:
That being said, I suppose it’s cool to check out what someone else has done, but realistically the best way to learn a library is to play with it. I think that's how most people learn.
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^ this. It's not rocket science. Just read the manual (and watch Youtube videos) and discover how a library responds to CC's, etc.
 
Most people investing that much into a library already understand the conventions and standards they can expect when loading up a library. The terms generally mean the same thing in the VI world, marcato long, legato, staccatissimo, etc. If you've spent any time with a large orchestral library you will not have trouble transferring those skills to a new one. Additionally, OT have extensive videos going through most of the patches and showing how they play and how they sound. Most OT collections have about an hour's worth of video going through all the patches and functions of the instrument. It really isn't necessary. I could see a point in them allowing the demos on their site do be downloaded and tweaked as midi files, if anything to compare it to other libraries, but again I doubt many of their customers have felt the need for it.
 
Actually, I am with the OP on this one. I’ve had my fair share of demos that sold me, trying not to miss out on preorder prices, then being fairly disappointed with the library itself. I think at the very least, developers should make the MIDI for their demos available and easy to find. It would certainly help in understanding how to coax the best performance out of the libraries. It’s not about “general use” but rather about the tricks and tips.
 
clisma said:
Actually, I am with the OP on this one. I’ve had my fair share of demos that sold me, trying not to miss out on preorder prices, then being fairly disappointed with the library itself. I think at the very least, developers should make the MIDI for their demos available and easy to find. It would certainly help in understanding how to coax the best performance out of the libraries. It’s not about “general use” but rather about the tricks and tips.
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You’re not going to learn much from a MIDI file, and probably nothing from a GM MIDI file. A developer would need to create a project file for every DAW out there.
 
Suntower said:
Without proper examples, you're kinda limited to what you can do. But if you have a suite of 'how tos', you then can simply -compose-. And isn't that the whole point of buying a lib?
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It depends on the library. Some libraries are intentionally geared toward musicians with limited VI experience, but high-end libraries loaded with choices are generally intended to sound their best at the hands of experienced composers.

Every musician on the face of the earth, whether they play real instruments or virtual ones, is limited to what they can do. They improve by learning, practicing, failing, and trying again. An entire suite of MIDI files will not teach you most of what you ought to be learning to become a good composer. The key to making any virtual instrument track shine at its full potential is acquired knowledge of:

1. The real instrument (how it sounds, how it's played, its limitations, etc.)
2. MIDI composition (i.e. editing note and CC data for realism)
3. Prior experience with other libraries (using articulations, key switches, editing under the hood, etc.)
4. Engineering (signal processing, effects, mixing, etc.)

All of this knowledge can be applied across the board to every library you buy. The more knowledge and experience you gain, the better your tracks will sound. A MIDI file is just one form of teaching tool available to VI musicians. Some musicians choose to use them, and some don't. I don't think I've ever downloaded a MIDI file.

If you prefer to learn composition from MIDI files, that's your prerogative, but there are a lot of composers who don't. That is why developer-supplied MIDI files are the exception and not the rule.
 
When I bought ’The Resonator’ from Indiginus, it came with a midi demo file. I loaded it up into Logic, adjusted the sample tracks accordingly, and guess what? It sounded exactly like the online demo! In contrast, I have purchased other libraries where I still have no clue how they got the VI to sound like it does in their demos.

Developer walkthroughs are great, but highly selective in what they showcase. A midi file or even a sample DAW project does not seem like too much to ask, and it’s a great way to learn how a ‘pro’ has used the product in a sequence, including the articulations. I wish more developers would offer it.
 
Nice arrangement overall Chris!

And maybe it is me, but you seem to be fighting the same struggle as I - the some of the shorts are somehow not quite right - close, closer than many other libraries, but their tails just don't sound natural to me. Could be I listened to different stuff growing up?

I really like Glory Days, but the shorts are making me nuts! In a way I'm glad you posted this, because now I know I am not alone<G>.

I am curious, are you satisfied with the shorts?
 
Thank you! I quite like the shorts, the only thing is that they’ve been recorded in different lengths, so I would have to use time machine to stretch the samples to fit my session. However I find that introduces some artifacts at times. Tail wise i don’t mind.
 
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