NPPE-Compatible Woodwind Library Recommendations

[LeifEricson]

Hopefully this is the right place for this thread. I'm assuming most NPPE users hang out in this forum.

I'm looking for recommendations of woodwind libraries I can mix with VSL Synchron Prime (or full Synchron once I can afford the upgrade). I'm a notation software based concert band composer, and I'd like my mockups to be able to sound like full concert band woodwind sections where there are often several players per part, especially clarinets and flutes. In some pieces I'd be looking at 12 clarinets split between 3-4 parts, sometimes all playing in tutti. My hope is to add in an extra sample library or two to Synchron Prime and NP stock sounds to be able to make these large woodwind sections sound full and textured. I'm thinking of combining a few solo and section patches from different libraries with the other half of the section covered by NP. It'd also be nice to have some woodwind patches that are more expressive than Synchron Prime for exposed solo passages.

Does anyone have recommendations for NPPE libraries that might be best for my use cases? My style is more classical oriented. Here's what I've gathered from my research so far:

BBCSO: Has a very immersive and balanced classical sound, and the NPPE engine for it seems to handle the library well. My only concern is the wetter sound, especially for Core.
Iconica: Seems solid but not spectacular. Also comes with a euphonium patch which is important for concert band music. Doesn't seem like many people use the library.
CSW: Seems highly recommended in woodwind library recommendation threads, but I wonder if the NPPE engine has issues with it. The a2 clarinets patch doesn't seem supported by NPPE for whatever reason, and the clarinet and oboe stick out badly in the NP demo video, such as the demo for Morning Mood but also in the Blue Danube section: (video link). I expect these issues aren't present when using the library in a DAW.
Nucleus: I hear the oboe is good (one of the weak spots of Prime), but the library has more of an epic sound so it might not mix well with VSL. Also doesn't come with a lot of articulations.
VSL Synchronized Edition 1: This library seems to be highly regarded for woodwinds, but I did the free trial this month and NPPE's reverb doesn't seem to flatter the library at all. NP stock sounds seemed better in all cases. Even the Iconica Sketch NPPE demo video sounds better to me in terms of overall sound. Maybe I'd find this library usable with the NPPE reverb turned off and I added a reverb plugin to it later? Or maybe I could use a VSL expression map with my notation software instead of NPPE so I could use the provided Synchron Stage IR? Either way I was pretty disappointed.

The HOOPUS and Cinesamples don't seem highly regarded for woodwinds and their woodwinds didn't sound great in the demos. Berlin Berklee has the memory issues. SSO is probably too wet, and I'd have to wait until a NPPE engine is released for the revamped version to consider it.

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[joebaggan]

I do small ensemble stuff with a lot of exposed solo lines and alternate, mix and match between NPPE BBC Core, VSL Synchronized, and NP default sounds for solo woodwinds. I find that each has its strengths and weakness and depends on the instrument, range, and part. So for me, it requires a lot of experimentation to find the combinations that seem most realistic/balanced. And as you say, the reverb is not always consistent between NPPE libs, so wonder if I should export everything dry and then mix with a reverb in Dorico or Cubase. For now, I'm living with the differences but curious what others are doing.

 

[LeifEricson]

I realize my first post is a giant wall of text. I suppose I'm mostly curious about 1) what people's experiences are with the NPPE for CSW, 2) if people have found ways to mix BBCSO with Synchron, and 3) if anyone can give opinions on Iconica woodwinds.

Regarding layering the libraries, I'm hopeful that maybe turning off the NPPE reverb for BBCSO and keeping it on for Synchron might produce a good enough blend. Synchron Prime seems to blend pretty well with NP stock sounds as long as I use NPPE's Close-Main mix and reverb. Sadly, this might mean the lack of close mics in BBCSO Core might make this blend difficult, making BBCSO Pro necessary for a convincing result, but I'm only guessing.

 

[wing]

I do a lot of mixing and matching myself, for whatever sounds and works best. For Woodwinds and NPPE I own and regularly use BBCSO and SSO (which currently only works with the previous release, not the new 2024 re-release). I also own Cinewinds, though I find it underwhelming and frankly rather synthetic sounding so I never use it.

Generally speaking out of my options, BBC sounds the best and tightest. It's actually dryer than you might think, it really depends on the mix you select, or you can isolate the close up spot mics for a pretty dry sound if you want. I really enjoy the warmth and body of the clarinets especially, the oboe and bassoons have a nice lyrical agility, the flutes are great too. If you happen to own BBCSO already, I would recommend giving the NPPE demo a go.

I do sometimes use SSO as well. For some parts, they can tend to handle fast legatos a little better – but this is hit or miss. It's much wetter out of the box, but again you can also isolate spot mics. However sometimes I've gotten funny results on this library specifically, when using the close mics, a reverb tail will pop in after the note finishes in a way that sounds like compression/ducking. For that reason I don't often use it with the close mics.

I still find it lacks presence, body, and clarity for some parts – the clarinets and bassoon are noticeably thinner sounding. It really seems to push the entire woodwind section further back in the hall – which has its use case when I want that sound of winds just filling out the harmony and you don't need as much low-mid body in your mix. Sometimes I want this wetter sound and it sounds very pretty in Air Lyndhurst. However for more fast and detailed woodwind passagework, I have found BBC to have a much better presence and clarity overall.

I have Synchron for strings but I haven't invested in the woodwinds yet. Maybe next time VSL runs them on sale I'll pick them up – my general experience as mentioned above is that mix and match tends to create the most successful mix; there hasn't been a be-all-end-all library, so I often have to cheat what works best for the instrument or passage.

 

[swinkler]

I have and use both CSW and Synchron WW's. I think Synchron prime and Synchron full libraries are very agile and if the music mostly calls for that sort of playing i use VSL exclusively. But if I have something that calls for something more singing and legato I'll use CSW. I don't write for band however so don't have to deal with more than 2-3 ww's per part.