NotePerformer 4 Expectations or Wishes

[Callum Huseyin]

Please try reassigning the Playback Template. Once done, ensure your number of MIDI channels in NotePerformer matches your NPPE setup. If "Violins 1" in NPPE says "two staves," that means it will route to the first two MIDI channels with violin section sound in NotePerformer.

Thanks Arne, for some reason Violin 1 in NPPE was set to 2 staves, and changing it 1 sorted it out. It seems that divisi staves don't count for NPPE in dorico as seperate staves - is that right?

As always you are totally awesome!

This has been a gamechanging update to Noteperformer and I can't wait to see what libraries get supported next. I'm sure your development plan is all completely set out, but I'm hoping for (all VSL)

-synchronized solo strings
-synchron world winds
-synchron harp
-great rieger organ (synchron)
-the rest of synchron percussion volumes
-synchron power drums
- synchronized saxophones (annoying that they've not done a new synchron version)
- synchronized woodwinds (for the auxilliaries not in synchron woodwinds - bass flute, oboe d'amore, hecklephone, contrabass clarinet, basset horn)
- niche - synchronized historical winds (natural horns and trumpets, recorders, baroque flutes and oboes of various kinds, etc.)
- synchron pianos
- synchron and synchronised choirs/voices
- synchronized plucked instruments (guitar)
- synchronized special keyboards (harpsichord and harmonium)
- synchronized dimension brass (for the wagner tubas!)
- synchronized elements (lots of weird percussion!)
- appreciate this last one is a long shot -> some kind of synth support for FX strings and smart spheres

 

[Wallander]

Thanks Arne, for some reason Violin 1 in NPPE was set to 2 staves, and changing it 1 sorted it out. It seems that divisi staves don't count for NPPE in dorico as seperate staves - is that right?

As always you are totally awesome!

This has been a gamechanging update to Noteperformer and I can't wait to see what libraries get supported next. I'm sure your development plan is all completely set out, but I'm hoping for (all VSL)

-synchronized solo strings
-synchron world winds
-synchron harp
-great rieger organ (synchron)
-the rest of synchron percussion volumes
-synchron power drums
- synchronized saxophones (annoying that they've not done a new synchron version)
- synchronized woodwinds (for the auxilliaries not in synchron woodwinds - bass flute, oboe d'amore, hecklephone, contrabass clarinet, basset horn)
- niche - synchronized historical winds (natural horns and trumpets, recorders, baroque flutes and oboes of various kinds, etc.)
- synchron pianos
- synchron and synchronised choirs/voices
- synchronized plucked instruments (guitar)
- synchronized special keyboards (harpsichord and harmonium)
- synchronized dimension brass (for the wagner tubas!)
- synchronized elements (lots of weird percussion!)
- appreciate this last one is a long shot -> some kind of synth support for FX strings and smart spheres

I'm glad to hear it worked out.

NotePerformer has a single violins program that's assigned for both violins 1 & 2. Getting different sounds for them in NPPE is resolved by channel count. NotePerformer MIDI channels with the "violins" program are assigned in order. In Dorico, you may need to open all the NotePerformer mixers to ensure you have the expected number of violin channels assigned, since Dorico may leave unused (but assigned) MIDI channels behind when you change certain settings or add/remove instruments.

 

[wcreed51]

It came out in the interview with Herb Tucmandl that the Synchron Woodwinds accidentally reversed Oboe 1 and 2, So wondering if you've taken that into account in the Synchron NPPE. And if you'll be updating to include the new legato patches, they were added to Oboe 2, not Oboe 1.

 

[swinkler]

@Wallander any idea if an upcoming Synchron update will impact NPPE's usability with the Synchron engine? Sounds like there are some pretty hefty performance improvements and I'm sure many will want to upgrade.

 

[Wallander]

It came out in the interview with Herb Tucmandl that the Synchron Woodwinds accidentally reversed Oboe 1 and 2, So wondering if you've taken that into account in the Synchron NPPE. And if you'll be updating to include the new legato patches, they were added to Oboe 2, not Oboe 1.

I don't recall changing the order of anything, but our preset uses the samples labeled "01P OB1".

@Wallander any idea if an upcoming Synchron update will impact NPPE's usability with the Synchron engine? Sounds like there are some pretty hefty performance improvements and I'm sure many will want to upgrade.

No idea, unfortunately. We're just a host, so from our perspective, what goes on under the hood of the VST is a black box. I assume the update won't break old projects, meaning NPPE should work, too.

We avoid beta versions since it would be a liability (we save VST presets that are later distributed, and don't want to expose end users to beta-version presets). If a product has significant upgrades that we can take advantage of, the earliest point we would start assessing is the point of release.

 

[ansthenia]

NPPE is indeed using what is actually Oboe 2. Not an issue though outside of the new legato update if that's ever incorporated into NPPE.

 

[POTTIER]

Hello Arne,
For the next update of NPPE 4.5: what applications are planned to be improved or added for Musio, Spitfire, Hoopus and Nucleus?
What would also be interesting would be to add the possibility of codifying lyrics at the choir level (FLuffy audio or Hoopus or in Musio by adding Voces8)...
Thank you for your feedback and for your excellent work!!

 

[Vincent Martin]

Hello Arne and all,

following the title of this thread, here are my wishes for NotePerformer :
- have a more extended dynamic range for the clarinet built-in sound (not enough difference between dynamics p and ffff)
- have vibrato depth and speed CC (CC105, CC106) taken into account during the note itself and not only at note onset as it seems to be the case. So that the vibrato can vary along the note.

The above 2 wishes are not specific to NPPE.
I suspect not much can be done for the first one.
As far as the vibrato is concerned, it would allow much more flexibility and expressiveness. It is applicable to NotePerformer internal sounds but could also be applicable to NPPE (as I understood NPPE is performing a lot of signal post-processing).
In addition, when it comes to string instruments especially, the possibility to tune the vibrato depth/speed along the note would probably make them more realistically sounding.

I am a blessed user of NotePerformer. I was hesitating investing and trying NPPE, not convinced by the demos. I finally gave it a try. I have to say I'm blown away by the quality of NPPE : the possibility to quickly switch instruments from one library to another one, while somehow keeping the orchestral balance is just magic and a dream come true. Unfortunately for me, I'm so allergic to inconsistencies and limitations still inevitably found in sample-based libraries that I always end up producing most of the music with NotePerformer's internal sounds, so flexible and consistent.

Thank you so much, Arne, for the wonderful NotePerfomer ! Do you think there is a possibility to evolve it to allow a varying vibrato ?

 

[Symfoniq]

I'm sorry to say that I'm too lazy and time-constrained to read all 104 pages of what is no doubt an excellent thread! So...

Is there a general consensus on which libraries work best with NotePerformer 4 and Dorico? I just need a full orchestra that doesn't sound like general MIDI, preferably with better strings than NotePerformer 3. For context, I've been using mostly OT libraries in StaffPad.

 

[swinkler]

I'm sorry to say that I'm too lazy and time-constrained to read all 104 pages of what is no doubt an excellent thread! So...

Is there a general consensus on which libraries work best with NotePerformer 4 and Dorico? I just need a full orchestra that doesn't sound like general MIDI, preferably with better strings than NotePerformer 3. For context, I've been using mostly OT libraries in StaffPad.

I think if you read the thread you'd still be asking the question. It really comes down to opinion for the most part. Based on what I own and my experience I'd say Synchron Prime and BBCSO (Core or Pro). SP is very light on resources, loads quickly, sounds great and is well balanced. BBCSO also sounds great and is well balanced thanks to Arne's magic. Many claim they're using BBCSO for the first time in a long time as it has a reputation of not being as playable and various issues.

If you use OT stuff though and own Berlin Berklee Edition you could try that one for free. The issue with that one is the memory footprint it consumes makes it unusable for most.

Aside from all of that it sometimes comes down to taste. Like anything certain libraries are better suited for different styles of writing than others. If you have additional libraries many including myself get great results mixing and matching.

Hope that helps.

 

[wing]

I'm sorry to say that I'm too lazy and time-constrained to read all 104 pages of what is no doubt an excellent thread! So...

Is there a general consensus on which libraries work best with NotePerformer 4 and Dorico? I just need a full orchestra that doesn't sound like general MIDI, preferably with better strings than NotePerformer 3. For context, I've been using mostly OT libraries in StaffPad.

I already owned Spitfire BBCSO Pro so adding the engine was a no-brainer (the normal BBCSO playback template is basically useless in Dorico, crazy dynamic issues all over the place; whereas BBC with NP makes it work great, it's magical!). For me it's taken everything to the next level, sounding a lot more realistic for the most part. In particular I find the strings and woodwinds to be night and day better. Brass is kind of 50/50, sometimes I stick with NP for that. Trumpet in BBC has a beautiful reverb sound perfect for lyrical passages, but I find NP's trumpet to be more articulate for fast and precise passages.

There are some caveats however, where I will fallback on NP:

- Some legato passages just don't work right, causing some weird volume changes. But other times legato sounds amazing. I haven't figured out the rhyme or reason there so it's been trial & error.

- Fast ostinato passages on strings - for some reason, I've observed weird dynamics and accents with faster string ostinati, whether legato or staccato. It makes the rhythm sound very "bumpy" and uneven. When I hear it I joke that the players actually sound drunk. If I really need this passage in my music, I'll fall back on NP which is usually very crisp and articulate, preferring to keep BBC for any slower strings and tremolo (which sounds wayyy better in BBC).

- Grace notes have been hit or miss for me, in terms of strange dynamics. I notice it often on oboes for some reason - even if the dynamic is marked pp or something, an added grace note makes the primary note suddenly squawk at forte, at least it sounds like it. So sometimes I end up avoiding grace notes on some instruments where it gets too wonky to be worth it.

- Trills can only be what the library has to offer. If you want to do a different trill of a specific interval, it sounds like NP is attempting to play both NP and BBC back and forth, and the result is very wonky.

- You can change mic mixes on an instrument basis, but you can't really blend, isolate, or edit them in any way. I'd love a future update where I can isolate only spot mics for a soloist...

- Percussion is hit or miss. BBC's tuned percussion sounds a lot better, but the rest is a bit too wet for my taste, and I sometimes prefer NP's perc which is a lot tighter in a mix.

The great thing if you couldn't tell is that you're able to mix and match with an engine, or multiple engines, and NP, and even other playback templates, so it's very versatile.

TLDR; Totally worth it!

 

[Wallander]

Hello Arne and all,

following the title of this thread, here are my wishes for NotePerformer :
- have a more extended dynamic range for the clarinet built-in sound (not enough difference between dynamics p and ffff)
- have vibrato depth and speed CC (CC105, CC106) taken into account during the note itself and not only at note onset as it seems to be the case. So that the vibrato can vary along the note.

The above 2 wishes are not specific to NPPE.
I suspect not much can be done for the first one.
As far as the vibrato is concerned, it would allow much more flexibility and expressiveness. It is applicable to NotePerformer internal sounds but could also be applicable to NPPE (as I understood NPPE is performing a lot of signal post-processing).
In addition, when it comes to string instruments especially, the possibility to tune the vibrato depth/speed along the note would probably make them more realistically sounding.

I am a blessed user of NotePerformer. I was hesitating investing and trying NPPE, not convinced by the demos. I finally gave it a try. I have to say I'm blown away by the quality of NPPE : the possibility to quickly switch instruments from one library to another one, while somehow keeping the orchestral balance is just magic and a dream come true. Unfortunately for me, I'm so allergic to inconsistencies and limitations still inevitably found in sample-based libraries that I always end up producing most of the music with NotePerformer's internal sounds, so flexible and consistent.

Thank you so much, Arne, for the wonderful NotePerfomer ! Do you think there is a possibility to evolve it to allow a varying vibrato ?

Generally, only basic operations can be done to a sample without unacceptable distortions. Those include changing the volume, compression, minor pitch corrections, and basic filtering.

Unfortunately, changing the vibrato rate of a wet sample falls into the impossible category. We can't do that even to an offline sample and unlimited processing time.

 

[romantic]

I'm sorry to say that I'm too lazy and time-constrained to read all 104 pages of what is no doubt an excellent thread! So...

Is there a general consensus on which libraries work best with NotePerformer 4 and Dorico? I just need a full orchestra that doesn't sound like general MIDI, preferably with better strings than NotePerformer 3. For context, I've been using mostly OT libraries in StaffPad.

The best is just to go to this page and scroll down and you have the same demo pieces with all Playback engines (I assume the host does not really mater

NotePerformer 4

NotePerformer 4 is the Artificial Intelligence-based orchestral playback engine for Sibelius, Finale & Dorico.

www.noteperformer.com

For me it is Synchron/Prime but my ears are very adjusted to the sound.
Just checking the first 5 seconds of the Star Wars Theme, and the Brass as well as the Triangle (slightly too loud in all versions) just don't sound as good anywhere else.

As a very different piece for Comparison I'd suggest to listen to Morning in details (woodwinds, low dynamics). I also would love to compare Blue Danube Waltz, but there the tempo is so crazy that it is really hard to listen

 

[Vincent Martin]

Thanks for your answer, Arne.
Then I guess I should have asked for this while you were still working on NP 3 and not on NP 4, yet
.

 

[Ivan Duch]

- Fast ostinato passages on strings - for some reason, I've observed weird dynamics and accents with faster string ostinati, whether legato or staccato. It makes the rhythm sound very "bumpy" and uneven. When I hear it I joke that the players actually sound drunk. If I really need this passage in my music, I'll fall back on NP which is usually very crisp and articulate, preferring to keep BBC for any slower strings and tremolo (which sounds wayyy better in BBC).

I feel like earlier versions of the BBCSO engine handled the string shorts timing issue better.

Arne did you make any changes to timing that could have impacted them?

 

[swinkler]

I feel like earlier versions of the BBCSO engine handled the string shorts timing issue better.

Arne did you make any changes to timing that could have impacted them?

Funny you mention that because I was mocking up something yesterday and tried staccatos and staccatissimo and both sounded exactly the same neither of which was really very short. I also tried spicc. expression with the same result. So I'm also wondering if different short articulations are getting triggered (BBCSO Pro in my case)

 

[Callum Huseyin]

Hi Arne, wondering if there are technical limitations to implementing solo string sounds triggering if you use the divisi options in dorico to set staves to solo vs gli altri? That would be be very useful as at the moment I'm using sneaky Solo Strings as seperate players to get the sounds, then combining them in the part, but it doesn't look great. Keep up the awesome work.

 

[wing]

I feel like earlier versions of the BBCSO engine handled the string shorts timing issue better.

Arne did you make any changes to timing that could have impacted them?

If anyone is curious, here is an export from a recent piece I was working on with an ostinato.



Realizing maybe it could be the tempo I'm working with here which might not be the most realistic for an entire section at that speed.

NP Standard strings which are crisp and articulate -
View attachment violinshorts_NP-regular.mp3
Perhaps a little less humanized, but useable in a context.


NPPE w/ BBCSO Pro

View attachment violinshorts_NPPE-BBC.mp3
Sounds quite sloppy like they've had a bit much to drink lol

To be fair when I slow the tempo down to around q=70, BBC does sound more consistent. However I would still say in the case of shorts like this, BBC tends to also be too wet in general, and all the strings have a bit of an excessive low-mid resonance, so in this scenario I still prefer the NP strings for the fact that they sound a lot cleaner for fast and rhythmic passages.

 

[rsr]

Arne, I am wondering if a future update to the Musio engine will utilise the latest updates to this library? For example, NPPE uses the initial release of the brass patches (Trumpet Ensemble True Legato v1.0 [Core], Trumpet Ensemble Staccatissimo v1.0 [Core], Trumpet Solo Sustain v1.1 [Pro], Trumpet Solo Staccatissimo v1.0 [Pro]) and unless I am mistaken, all have been updated (e.g. Trumpet Solo Sustain v1.3 [Pro]).

 

[Wallander]

If anyone is curious, here is an export from a recent piece I was working on with an ostinato.



Realizing maybe it could be the tempo I'm working with here which might not be the most realistic for an entire section at that speed.

NP Standard strings which are crisp and articulate -
View attachment violinshorts_NP-regular.mp3
Perhaps a little less humanized, but useable in a context.


NPPE w/ BBCSO Pro

View attachment violinshorts_NPPE-BBC.mp3
Sounds quite sloppy like they've had a bit much to drink lol

To be fair when I slow the tempo down to around q=70, BBC does sound more consistent. However I would still say in the case of shorts like this, BBC tends to also be too wet in general, and all the strings have a bit of an excessive low-mid resonance, so in this scenario I still prefer the NP strings for the fact that they sound a lot cleaner for fast and rhythmic passages.

I'm unable to reproduce this. May I ask what notation program this is?