Well, the guy needs to make a living too, I guess. But you're right - it is expensive for what you get.
New PC, what do you recommend?
- Thread starter jazzdrums22
- Start date
QuiteAlright
Gastronomer
It's going to take way more time than that for a beginner. Best case scenario: someone picks parts for you, and you assemble everything perfectly with no issues. But you can get parts that are dead on arrival, driver config issues, tricky incompatibility issues, parts that don't fit properly due to manufacturing defects, etc... Plus, most people will spend more than 4 hours picking + buying parts.
With that said, I would still recommend building your own PC if budget is a concern. The reason I recommend it is that you can take advantage of sales on individual components. That way, you can assemble a computer with better specs than a comparable pre-built if you're patient enough to get good deals.
Here's an example. 4 days ago, there was a deal for Samsung NVME SSDs where you could get a 500 GB drive for $19.99! That means you could pick up 2 TB of extremely fast storage for just $80, if you were fast enough to snag the deal.
Just be realistic that it is extra work. I find it rewarding and worth it, but it won't be as easy as buying a prebuilt.
Raving7100
New Member
Are there usually Black Friday deals on PC components? I am thinking of holding off building a new system until then.
QuiteAlright
Gastronomer
Definitely !
mixolyd
Lazy member
Yes but in my experience it’s not worth the hassle trying to orchestrate a complex build around sales deals at short notice - the savings are unlikely to be very large unless you compromise. I’d simply build the spec that suits at the desired price point and get on with it.
For saving money some good points have been made already: if the CPU has on board graphics you can skip the GPU entirely, the recent CPU‘s (last couple of generations) are absolutely laden with power - you don’t need the top of the line or the absolute latest in order to have awesome performance, DDR4 RAM is much cheaper than DDR5 and more than fast enough, SSD’s are very affordable and getting cheaper all the time so there’s no need to stock up right from the beginning.
One last tip: the last three machines I’ve built I just bought a Windows key for next to nothing. Is Windows 11 completely free even? I don’t know, but the OS should not be a significant expense.
blaggins
Senior Member
How are legit windows keys available for next to nothing?
As far as waiting for mega sales on components, I do think there's sense in picking up some of the core elements ahead of time, if you know you're going to build a PC in the next year or two. For example the power supply, fans, case, nvme drives... even ram if you know that you're for sure going to go with either ddr4 vs ddr5. A "good enough" deal on one of these things is probably makes them worth buying ahead of time, since it's very unlikely that you would want to change specifications on them in the next 12 months. Mobo, CPU, cooling, maybe even RAM, that's another question entirely.
As far as waiting for mega sales on components, I do think there's sense in picking up some of the core elements ahead of time, if you know you're going to build a PC in the next year or two. For example the power supply, fans, case, nvme drives... even ram if you know that you're for sure going to go with either ddr4 vs ddr5. A "good enough" deal on one of these things is probably makes them worth buying ahead of time, since it's very unlikely that you would want to change specifications on them in the next 12 months. Mobo, CPU, cooling, maybe even RAM, that's another question entirely.
Raving7100
New Member
This video explains it well. Basically, Microsoft sells windows much cheaper in developing countries, so you can buy legit keys from people reselling them; however, the keys you see on eBay for $5 are probably not legit for personal use and are for volume licensing. Once windows figures out a volume license is being used by someone other than the company it is licensed to, they will deactivate it.
Last edited:
antoniopandrade
Senior Member
i consider myself a semi-experienced PC builder (5 builds over the years) and I wouldn’t underestimate the task it is to build a new PC when you are still unfamiliar with it.
Sure there are many resources nowadays that will help you get going but I personally made many mistakes in my first build and I was VERY motivated to get it done well. If you’re the kind of person that doesn’t care about getting into the nitty gritty tech details, I’d look for an experienced builder, or at the very least, a friend who knows his stuff that can help you put it together.
That being said, with the OP’s stated budget in mind, building your own PC is the the only choice I’d consider. You will get far and away the best value for your money here, so even though it seems like a tall task, I’d absolutely recommend diving into it.
The part that requires the most attention in my opinion is actually AFTER the build is done and when you have to install drivers and tune your BIOS. Because of the specific needs of working with audio, the way you tune your computer is extremely important.
I would actually suggest the OP save up a little bit of money and go for an M2 system if that’s an option. Easiest setup of my life and runs like a dream, 0 head aches.
Sure there are many resources nowadays that will help you get going but I personally made many mistakes in my first build and I was VERY motivated to get it done well. If you’re the kind of person that doesn’t care about getting into the nitty gritty tech details, I’d look for an experienced builder, or at the very least, a friend who knows his stuff that can help you put it together.
That being said, with the OP’s stated budget in mind, building your own PC is the the only choice I’d consider. You will get far and away the best value for your money here, so even though it seems like a tall task, I’d absolutely recommend diving into it.
The part that requires the most attention in my opinion is actually AFTER the build is done and when you have to install drivers and tune your BIOS. Because of the specific needs of working with audio, the way you tune your computer is extremely important.
I would actually suggest the OP save up a little bit of money and go for an M2 system if that’s an option. Easiest setup of my life and runs like a dream, 0 head aches.
blender505
Member
If you're near a microcenter, you can also get some amazing CPU motherboard combos there (they don't ship these combo deals). I just got a new i7-12700k + MSI z690 ATX motherboard + 16gb RAM for $350 (the RAM went into a different desktop). Had to ask my parents to pick it up when they drove down to Atlanta to go to the airport, then waited a whole month until the next holiday when I'd see them next (since I live far out of town) to pick up the components. Completely worth it though considering the CPU goes for $260 on amazon and there's no way you're getting a quality mobo for it at $90.
That being said. As fun as building a PC is, if you just don't have the time or interest, I don't know that I'd recommend it. I enjoy it and have built all the desktops I've owned for the past 15 years (roughly 5 or 6 builds), but there are always steps that I get nervous on or struggle with even now.
You'll definitely save a bunch of money building it your own, but you might be able to find something pretty decent within your budget. I've heard good things about Origin PC from a quality stand point. They have builds that are more geared towards workstations and I was able to put together a i7-12700k or Ryzen 7 7700X + 64gb RAM + 2TB NVME system for just over $1700.
Another option would be finding a good base with windows already installed and then upgrade the RAM and adding an additional hard drive. Significantly easier than doing a full build since all the hard parts are done. Something like this maybe:
Just something else to think about
That being said. As fun as building a PC is, if you just don't have the time or interest, I don't know that I'd recommend it. I enjoy it and have built all the desktops I've owned for the past 15 years (roughly 5 or 6 builds), but there are always steps that I get nervous on or struggle with even now.
You'll definitely save a bunch of money building it your own, but you might be able to find something pretty decent within your budget. I've heard good things about Origin PC from a quality stand point. They have builds that are more geared towards workstations and I was able to put together a i7-12700k or Ryzen 7 7700X + 64gb RAM + 2TB NVME system for just over $1700.
Another option would be finding a good base with windows already installed and then upgrade the RAM and adding an additional hard drive. Significantly easier than doing a full build since all the hard parts are done. Something like this maybe:
Just something else to think about
zvenx
Senior Member
I was going to say got to studiocat and buy the one you xan afford.
rsp
Alchemedia
Decomposer
Lots of good suggestions here. I always build my own.
Chris S
New Member
Hi Kevin!
I strongly advice you to not buy these pre-build machines. You will pretty much always pay too much for too little power and quality.
The best option would be to assemble the PC yourself. However, if you really don't feel confident about this, you can let someone else do it for you and it'll probably still be cheaper and better than a pre-build machine.
I'm not up to date with the latest and best hardware, but the CPU should be at least an i7 10th generation or above. The more synth stuff and processing you do, the more demanding it's going to be for your CPU. If you don't plan on doing heavy processing, then RAM becomes more important. Since you do orchestral stuff you should aim for a minimum of 64GB with the option to add more.
Take a look at the motherboards here, because some are restricted to a maximum of 64GB RAM. The rule is very simple: The more RAM, the better. Keep in mind though, anything above 3600MHz is a waste of money imho. The additional speed you would gain from 4000MHz or even more is barely noticeable. Furthermore, the higher the speed, the more unstable your system will be. 3600MHz should suffice.
Your motherboard should have plenty USB ports for all the hardware. You can always buy a seperate USB-hub, but there's hardware out there that, when not plugged directly into the machine, frequently cause problems, so make your motherboard have as many USB ports as possible.
Do not, I repeat, do not skimp on the power supply unit! Often overlooked, but this thing can set your whole machine on fire, which occasionally happens with extremely cheap units. Buy from trusted brands like be quiet! or Corsair. It should at least have the 80+ Gold certificate.
If you don't play video games or do video production or alike you won't need a dedicated GPU at all. An integrated GPU should easily be able to power 2 computer screens at 4k resolution. If all you do is music production, then a dedicated GPU would be the biggest waste of money.
For SSDs, ideally, you want a 500GB/1TB SSD NVMe solely for the operating system to ensure it can run as clean and fast as possible. For sample libraries, I'd suggest one or two 2TB SSDs, depending on how much storage you need ofc, but you can always buy more later. They too don't have to be the fastest. SSDs like the Samsung 870 Evo are a good bit slower than the newest NVMe SSDs, but if I recall correctly, the 870 Evo is loved and trusted among many composers.
Traditional hard drives on the other hand are little more than "data graves", meaning you shouldn't run your DAW or sample libraries on them. However, they are good for making backups or saving other stuff that you need only now and then.
Hope this helps!
Chris
Last edited:
Sombreuil
Active Member
DDR5 does make a difference as shown here, and it was two years ago:
About the 870 EVO:
www.techpowerup.com
About the 870 EVO:
Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!
Certain 870 EVO 4TB and 2TB drives are affected by early failures where they develop uncorrectable errors and some data just cannot be read from them anymore. This seems to primarily affect drives produced in January/February 2021. For example, i have three 870 EVO 4TB, only one is affected (so...
www.techpowerup.com
jazzdrums22
Member
Hi all,
I want to sincerely thank all of you who took the time to provide thoughtful, informed responses to my original post. Your help assisted me tremendously in making my decision.
After several extended conversations with Jim Roseberry of studiocat, I decided to have him build a unit for me.
I appreciate all of your suggestions to build it myself, but as I stated during this thread, I have neither the time, desire, nor comfort level to tackle the job. His final cost was right around my original budget price. And sure, I probably could’ve saved some $ … but I really value the one-on-one support Jim provided in understanding my needs, as well as the after-sales support that’s available. Having him available for support for the next several years is golden.
Thx to those of you who pointed me to Jim … he’ll be an invaluable resource for me going forward (he’s a quality individual …very generous with his time in explaining things and educating me). The unit should arrive in about a week.
I’m sure many of you will weigh in and say I’ve made a poor choice. So be it … it’s gonna be fine – I feel great about my decision and look forward to getting back to actually writing and orchestrating some music.
Be well, and thx again!
~ Kevin J.
I want to sincerely thank all of you who took the time to provide thoughtful, informed responses to my original post. Your help assisted me tremendously in making my decision.
After several extended conversations with Jim Roseberry of studiocat, I decided to have him build a unit for me.
- Alder Lake CPU: i7 12700k (5GHz)
- Asus Z790 motherboard
- RAM: 64GB DDR4/3200 (2x32GB)
- OS drive: 500GB M.2 (3400MB/Sec)
- M.2 SSD 1: 1TB (3400MB/Sec)
- Video: UHD-770
- Power Supply: 650w (quiet)
- Noctua CPU Cooler
I appreciate all of your suggestions to build it myself, but as I stated during this thread, I have neither the time, desire, nor comfort level to tackle the job. His final cost was right around my original budget price. And sure, I probably could’ve saved some $ … but I really value the one-on-one support Jim provided in understanding my needs, as well as the after-sales support that’s available. Having him available for support for the next several years is golden.
Thx to those of you who pointed me to Jim … he’ll be an invaluable resource for me going forward (he’s a quality individual …very generous with his time in explaining things and educating me). The unit should arrive in about a week.
I’m sure many of you will weigh in and say I’ve made a poor choice. So be it … it’s gonna be fine – I feel great about my decision and look forward to getting back to actually writing and orchestrating some music.
Be well, and thx again!
~ Kevin J.
Paul@Sydney
Senior Member
Wow, hadn't seen that chart. Hmm, interesting. Pretty extreme testing though, that's thousands of tracks. For most, that doesn't represent real world usage. Synthetic tests have a tendency to exxagerate what difference something makes in normal use. Is there more charts, showing difference but for more real world scenarios?DDR5 does make a difference as shown here, and it was two years ago:
About the 870 EVO:
Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!
Certain 870 EVO 4TB and 2TB drives are affected by early failures where they develop uncorrectable errors and some data just cannot be read from them anymore. This seems to primarily affect drives produced in January/February 2021. For example, i have three 870 EVO 4TB, only one is affected (so...
Paul@Sydney
Senior Member
Sounds like a decent build. Only thing I'd point out is that two m.2 slots have been used, and fairly small capacity drives. Are you sure you won't be upgrading to BBC pro, or buying other large footprint libraries? Cost of making that 1tb a 2tb drive is small in scheme of things and would not only future proof, but larger drives actually perform better too.
PaulieDC
Too much gear, not enough composing. Oy vey.
Not a poor choice, quite decent actually. If the motherboard supports PCIe 4.0 then go for the Samsung 980 Pro M.2 NVMe's which run upwards of 6000-7000mb/sec, they are now the same price as the older PCIe 3.0. (Amazon search shows 65 bucks for the 500 and 129 bucks for the 2TB, which I paid $289 for 14 months ago and thought the price was great). Having a 500GB C drive is my fave, forces me not to get lazy and put user files on it, lol. But 98% of the forum would probably disagree... and the 1TB is about the same price, so you might as well do 1TB for the C drive. And for Drive #2, definitely 2TB, at $129 it's a no brainer for more room AND fast reads. If your builder tries to tell you that the 980 Pro 4.0 drives are more expensive or don't give you that much speed or are known to fail (fixed with the latest firmware update MONTHS ago), I'd find another builder. Last thought: Go with at least 800w PSU, it shouldn't cost that much more and it gives you room to expand, add a video card if needed for multiple monitor support (the "UHD-770" listed for video is simply what the Intel CPU has built-in), additional SSDs (that WILL happen eventually!), and a higher rating handles it all better IMO, and doesn't work as hard. 800w isn't how much it draws, just gives you more headroom IF you need it.
With the drive and PSU changes, you'd have quite a nice DAW tower. Enjoy!
PaulieDC
Too much gear, not enough composing. Oy vey.
I went to the StudioCat site and it's all fine and dandy and stuff is definitely more expensive because the guy has to live. One red flag is how generic all of the component explanations are, there are NO model numbers given and there are so many factors between components that need to be verified. He sounds like a reputable seller and has great support, and I'm sure what he will assemble will all work together, but to even advertise his PRO DAW tower at two grand and the base ram you get is 16GB, yikes. But then it was this line for the 2nd drive that knocked me back:
Audio drive:
A conventional HD can sustain over 100 solid/contiguous 24Bit/44.1k tracks of audio.
No need for SSD as Audio drive... (unless you're working at higher sample-rates).
Direct quote form the website. Um... er... for the first time on this forum, I'm speechless.
I get it... That's a studio mix engineer talking, he's obviously not a composer.
Do you happen to live anywhere near Phoenix, by any chance?
Audio drive:
A conventional HD can sustain over 100 solid/contiguous 24Bit/44.1k tracks of audio.
No need for SSD as Audio drive... (unless you're working at higher sample-rates).
Direct quote form the website. Um... er... for the first time on this forum, I'm speechless.
I get it... That's a studio mix engineer talking, he's obviously not a composer.
Do you happen to live anywhere near Phoenix, by any chance?
Raving7100
New Member
SSD’s are so cheap now compared to what they used to be too! And you can even get M.2 drives for the same price as SATAS. That is what has me the most excited about building a new system as a hobbyist, being able to justify putting all my samples on SSD drives.
davinwv
Active Member
I'm glad you went with Jim, Kevin! IMHO, his service/support after the sale is well worth the price premium you pay at StudioCat.
I have an internal SSD solely for samples on my StudioCat laptop (along with an SSD system drive), and I use an external SSD for project files and audio recording. Despite what Jim suggests, I wouldn't use a spinning drive for projects and audio recording at this point. Backups are another story, though . . .
I have an internal SSD solely for samples on my StudioCat laptop (along with an SSD system drive), and I use an external SSD for project files and audio recording. Despite what Jim suggests, I wouldn't use a spinning drive for projects and audio recording at this point. Backups are another story, though . . .
