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Navigating a large template in Logic

stigc56

Senior Member
I'm curious about how those of you that use LPX and have large templates (200 - 600 tracks) navigate to find the tracks you need in your work.
I have around 150 tracks in LPX and I find that I spend a lot of time scrolling up and down to find the tracks I need.
In Cubase I have around 800 tracks and I hit Command+F and write something in the search field and select the track I want and hit enter.
How do you overcome this in LPX?
I'm asking because I must say that I constantly switching back and forth between those two! ;-(
 
For years in the pre-10.4.7 era my Logic template had 240 instance of EXS24, 16x 16-channel multitimbral VI channels going to VEPro (giving an additional 256 channels of Kontakt etc.), and 64 audio tracks - all routed in 5.1 to eight stem sub-masters by way of busses, with individual front+back reverb+delay for each stem. I had four busses unused - hooray!

Since 10.4.7 my template is up to 512 instances of EXS24, 128 audio tracks, and the same 16 x 16 VEPro feeds. So, bigger but still only half of Logic's capacity.

As soon as my instrument count got beyond, say, 64 or so I've been very diligent about organizing how they stack up vertically so I already know where to look for the sound I want. Here are the salient points:

- I never use the Mixer window that can appear at the bottom of the Main window. Like, never ever.

- I pre-build all of my Instrument, Audio, Aux, and ReWire objects in the Environment window. I place them precisely, create colored ornament labels for everything, and then "Lock Positions / Hide Cables" to lock everything in place. I keep my Environment open on a second display to the right of my Main display.

- I make damn sure that "Automatic Management of Channel Strips" or whatever it's called is turned OFF. I don't want Logic spuriously making Aux objects and moving stuff around in my precious Environment.

- I use Folder Track Stacks to make collapsable bricks with 16 VI tracks per Folder Stack, and have a key command assigned to expand / collapse the Folder Stacks, and I use color-coding and icons for each Folder Stack and the tracks within so everything matches.

- I do not use Summing Track Stacks. I want to be able to re-route any single object within a Stack to a different bus / stem sub-master at any time, so I can merge or separate elements within stems WITHOUT moving the sound / MIDI to a different track. This can create routing chaos sometimes but keeps everything where I expect it to be in the track list.

- Each 16-channel Folder Stack represents 16 slots in a given category - so, Stack 1 is kick drums, taikos, etc. Stack 2 is mid-range percussion. Stack 3 is metallic clanks and stuff. Stack 4 is high percussion.

- I always leave the last 2-4 tracks within each stack empty so I can go browsing for wild-card sounds that fit within that Stack's category but weren't pre-assigned in my template.

- Each group of four Stacks represents a stem, and all elements within are routed to that stem's sub-master busses. So, 16 tracks per stack x 4 stacks per stem x 8 stems = 512 VI tracks total, with 64 per stem. Should be enough (for now!).

- I obey some in-house "rules" like putting my main low-strings patch on the first track of the first Stack in the Strings array. It used to always live on track 65, halfway through my old 128-track template. Now it's on track 257, exactly at the mid-point in the fully-expanded track list. Other instruments that I use in every template function like this, as "anchor points" that I KNOW will be right where I left them and will never be deleted from the template. Not every Stack has an anchor instrument, but almost...

- Every 16-channel stack obeys some pretty strict rules about what's going to be in there. So if I'm looking for strings harmonics, sul-pont-trems, or any thin and icy string sounds I KNOW they'll be all next to each other in a certain Stack. Likewise with almost every sound in my world - they each have a home Stack, a place where by all the rules of nature they "should be".

- Those Stack categories follow the organization of my EXS library pretty closely (and my EXS library is obsessively organized), so if I want to go browsing for another sound in the Synths>Ambiences>Atonal category, I don't just go looking for an empty track in some random Stack, I first go to one of those few empty tracks at the end of the correct category's Stack, and load the new sound THERE.

- If I haven't used any tracks within a Folder Stack I keep it collapsed, and possibly hidden until I need it. With up+down arrow keys assigned to move through the tracks list, I can often get where I'm going without using the mouse.

- As the cue progresses I make extensive use of the "Hide Track" command to reduce clutter. When I need a new sound, a quick key-command to temporarily show all tracks lets me see everything, and then I can un-collapse the correct Folder Stack if needed, un-check the little green "Hide" button on the newly-used track, and then re-enable "Hide". Almost all of this is done with key commands, very quick.

But really it's the obsessive organization of everything into 16-channel bricks (Folder Stacks) that makes this easy. I still obey my own mental rules for how sounds should be organized from top-to-bottom, much like in the old analog tape days where kick drum was always on fader #1 on the SSL and lead vocal was always on the first fader to the right of the center section on the console. So the list of Folder Stacks, tracks, stems, busses.... EVERYTHING follows that thinking of how any given sound has a "right" place it should be in the natural order of things. Even within each Folder Stack, in my mind there's always a "first" instrument that sits in the first track - it's the main / biggest / heaviest / thickest sound in that family, and the others descend from there, getting higher / lighter / thinner / more obscure in character as you move down the list.

Your rules may be different, but working from lowest to highest track / folder / bus / stem numbers my list looks like this:

Stem A / Folder Stacks 1-4 = Low Drums, Mid Drums, Metal Drums, High Drums

Stem B / Folder Stacks 5-8 = Basses, Synths+Pulses, Guitars+Blasts+Braams, Crazy Hard Noise

Stem C / Folder Stacks 9-12 = Bowed Metals, Metal Textures, Noise Textures, Glitch Shit

Stem D / Folder Stacks 13-16 = Synth Textures, Synth Ambs, Atonal Textures, Atonal Ambs

Stem E / Folder Stacks 17-20 = Low Strings, Main String Ensembles, Icy High Strings, Strings FX

Stem F / Folder Stacks 21-24 = Low Brass, Mid Brass, Woodwinds, Brass FX

Stem G / Folder Stacks 25-28 = Orch FX Short A, Orch FX Short B, Orch FX Long A, Orch FX Long B

Stem H / Folder Stacks 29-32 = Short Strings Low, Short Strings Hi, Choir+Vox, Choir+Vox FX.

I am currently building a variation on this template which is in Quad instead of 5.1, so I can fit more stems with fewer channels per stem into my 64-channel MADI output (that goes from the Logic rig to the ProTools print rig). When this is complete I'll be able to use up to 16 stems with 4 channels each, instead of my current setup of 8 stems of 6 channels each (with some left empty). This would let me basically split each of my current stems into two, each of the above categories would be split in half.

Not sure if I'll need to go this way but we'll see...
 
An additional tool: screensets with the Main window scrolled to different places, for example one screenset scrolled to bowed metals, another to synth textures, etc.

I don't do that, but I would if I worked with 200 - 600 tracks.

But yeah, I've seen a lot of requests for a track search function.
 
You could also set up buttons in a floating Environment window as part of your main screenset.

This is a Meta button set up to recall a screenset. You'd set up more of them, and they'd probably be smaller.

I guess the screenshot isn't particularly helpful other than to show what a floating window looks like, but there are different buttons with different styles. This would be a dedicated Environment layer.

1575663491887.png
 
But yeah, I've seen a lot of requests for a track search function.

I would love that feature - and / or a feature to scroll to and select / record enable a track by its number in the Main window. That would be quicker than searching by track name in obsessively-organized templates (like mine!) because with key commands you could just type "Command-J, 122, Enter" to "Jump to, select, and record-enable track #122", and then arrow-key your way to the right track if you're a couple tracks off. Of course it should un-collapse / un-hide the destination track if it's in a collapsed folder or hidden.

I would LOVE this.
 
At the start of a project I add an empty region to each instrument I think I will use, then hide the rest. If I need to use a track I've hidden, I unhide everything, add an empty region to the track, then hide them all again - super fast and makes everything easy to view.
 
Another feature that is often overlooked (until logic gets full track search etc) is the Hide Group 1-32 workflow.

Meaning you can:

  • in the mixer select a channel strip
  • go to the group drop down menu and add as many groups as you need (up to 32)
  • open the group window (command+ G) and select all groups and uncheck all options (volume, pan etc)
  • Rename groups as needed
  • select tracks
  • in the group window select a group
  • use key command to add tracks to selected group
  • Create key commands for toggle hide group 1-32
 
I would love that feature - and / or a feature to scroll to and select / record enable a track by its number in the Main window. That would be quicker than searching by track name in obsessively-organized templates (like mine!) because with key commands you could just type "Command-J, 122, Enter" to "Jump to, select, and record-enable track #122", and then arrow-key your way to the right track if you're a couple tracks off. Of course it should un-collapse / un-hide the destination track if it's in a collapsed folder or hidden.

I would LOVE this.

I'd definitely use it.

In the meantime, a screenset with the track you want at the top of the window is pretty close - you type in Control-122 and then click on the track at the top of the window.

But of course you do have to create screenset #122 first!
 
I have around 150 tracks in LPX and I find that I spend a lot of time scrolling up and down to find the tracks I need.
150 tracks is nothing... However it is hard to remember them for a given project without a custom organization.
It is a good idea to organize your tracks in Instrument kind folders such as: Woods, Brass etc.
In this case you will have no more than 8 - 10 Instrument kind folder tracks.
Whenever you need to record/edit the 2nd Clarinet, you just go to the Woods folder => Clarinets.
100 Screensets are quite enough to organize Folder Instrument kinds and Instrument sectors such as Woods=> Piccolos, Flutes etc.
 
Osculator‘s plugin for logic shows the intriguing possibilities that lurk inside LPX’s OSC capable coding.

With the right tools, we could address the exact track we want by OSC message, so it could be possible to select a track remotely either by track number or by track name now. All Apple would need to do is open up the sdk so we could access the right messages.

But they have not- sigh
 
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I remember there was a way by creating empty folders on top of each category/groups. Then have another copy of the arrange window but hide everything minus the folders.
this way it’s only the category folders showing and if you click brass folder then the main arrange would go to that folder with all the instruments. But you had a really small column for the folders so it can be placed next to the larger arrange window. This is way back then. Don’t know if ya still possible w the new main window
 
I'm curious about how those of you that use LPX and have large templates (200 - 600 tracks) navigate to find the tracks you need in your work.
I have around 150 tracks in LPX and I find that I spend a lot of time scrolling up and down to find the tracks I need.
In Cubase I have around 800 tracks and I hit Command+F and write something in the search field and select the track I want and hit enter.
How do you overcome this in LPX?
I'm asking because I must say that I constantly switching back and forth between those two! ;-(
Multiple Summing Stacks inside of a Folder stack ranked by instrument/category. I.E. I have a 600-ish instrument template that folds down to about 25-30 folder stacks... (Two of these stacks are my auxes and busses...)

TLDR is I find Logic to be quite reasonable for managing large groups of VIs once I got used to the limitation of grouping summing stacks inside of a single folder stack... (So... OT Ark Brass in one summing stack, SF Brass in another, CS Brass in another... All grouped under one single BRASS folder stack... Imported/custom Icons being pretty critical for me locating a particular stack quickly.)

Rank the folder by whatever priority makes sense to you... Most likely instrument by hierarchy, however some may perhaps prefer by developer... The point is that you can put unlimited summing stacks under a single folder stack; just do as much planning ahead of time in terms of deciding what your preferred folder stack hierarchy will be or you may find yourself having to do a little backtracking...

That said... Logic could definitely use a find command... Even with a well slimmed down/organized template I still wish Logic had this frequently!
 
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Screensets:
Mixer in Tracks view, software instruments only on iMac monitor, Mixer in Tracks view, audio and auxes only on second display

Mixer in Single view.
 
The way it works now is simpler, I think: you have folders with a disclosure triangle to show/hide the tracks inside them.



no.. its this one.. used back in the day




create a new arrange window (now called main page), create several folders/ornament/midi instruments in the midi environment and reassign to the arrange page. on the second main page hide all but those. now with selecting those on the small column (not as small :/) the other main page with all the tracks will jump up or down to where that enviroment object is in the arrange. its an old trick and i think i barley got it to work. i dont use large template and this project is some random project i opened just to show... in theory if you have 1000 tracks and have sfx all th way on the button and strings all the way on track one, with this method it jumps easily up or down.

hope it makes sense. im sure someone with more patience and logic chops can do a better job. the downside of course is that the colume where the objects are on the left is not smaller. but maybe they can be on a ipad screen if screen shared?
 
no.. its this one.. used back in the day




create a new arrange window (now called main page), create several folders/ornament/midi instruments in the midi environment and reassign to the arrange page. on the second main page hide all but those. now with selecting those on the small column (not as small :/) the other main page with all the tracks will jump up or down to where that enviroment object is in the arrange. its an old trick and i think i barley got it to work. i dont use large template and this project is some random project i opened just to show... in theory if you have 1000 tracks and have sfx all th way on the button and strings all the way on track one, with this method it jumps easily up or down.

hope it makes sense. im sure someone with more patience and logic chops can do a better job. the downside of course is that the colume where the objects are on the left is not smaller. but maybe they can be on a ipad screen if screen shared?


hmm.. i dont know why i went w all the trouble of the midi environment. it was to create a old skool folder w/o packing anything w it but i think this hide/2nd arrange window tip can be done w any track i guess.
 
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hmm.. i dont know why i went w all the trouble of the midi environment. it was to create a old skool folder w/o packing anything w it but i think this hide/2nd arrange window tip can be done w any track i guess.

The great thing about Logic has always been that everyone finds different ways of using it.

I wonder whether you can't still do the same thing you did with the second Main window. Will have to check. But the important thing it does is scroll to the tracks you want, if I understand. Same Level Link or whatever it is.
 
Multiple Summing Stacks inside of a Folder stack ranked by instrument/category. I.E. I have a 600-ish instrument template that folds down to about 25-30 folder stacks... (Two of these stacks are my auxes and busses...)

TLDR is I find Logic to be quite reasonable for managing large groups of VIs once I got used to the limitation of grouping summing stacks inside of a single folder stack... (So... OT Ark Brass in one summing stack, SF Brass in another, CS Brass in another... All grouped under one single BRASS folder stack... Imported/custom Icons being pretty critical for me locating a particular stack quickly.)

Rank the folder by whatever priority makes sense to you... Most likely instrument by hierarchy, however some may perhaps prefer by developer... The point is that you can put unlimited summing stacks under a single folder stack; just do as much planning ahead of time in terms of deciding what your preferred folder stack hierarchy will be or you may find yourself having to do a little backtracking...

That said... Logic could definitely use a find command... Even with a well slimmed down/organized template I still wish Logic had this frequently!
I can't seem to nest summing stacks inside of folders. I'm getting error messages that not all tracks are on the same nesting level etc. Do I have to do that in the Environment? Fairly new to Logic (3 months)...
 
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