Mixing feature film (AAF error advice)

[Baronvonheadless]

Hey I’ve got an error I need help with if possible.

I’ll be mixing a film for the first time and I’m having issues with the AAF.

A friend was going to do it but didn’t have the time so passed the project to me. He had opened this AAF with no problems on protools, I’m trying to open it in logic and I get these errors.




When he opened it in protools there were several tracks. Like 1000.

When I open it, after pressing ok to those errors my project file looks like this.




The filmmaker is using premiere if that helps.

Also, is this the best way to do it? Or should I have him bounce the dialogue and sound fx bussed together as two separate tracks?

Vs mixing like 1000 different recordings and sounds?

Thanks, first time doing this but up for the challenge.

The filmmaker is not sure why I’m getting that error.

Click to read more...

 

[Mike Greene]

No problem, I moved it to the Tech Support section, although I'm not sure that will make much difference. Could be, though, so fingers crossed.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

Thanks Mike, yeah if anyone’s got any ideas or experience. Would be greaaaaat.

 

[kidslow]

Pro Tools is engineered to support AAF but I doubt Logic is nearly as robust. Can you ask them to export OMF instead of AAF from Premiere? You lose some non-critical capability but gain in compatability. Worth the trade off here.

According to this, AAF exported from Premiere not even possible to open with Logic.

https://www.jespersoderstrom.com/logic-pro-audio-post/omf-aaf-xml/

Or maybe ask your friend with Pro Tools to import the AAF and then export an AAF from Pro Tools, which might work as per link above.

 

[fakemaxwell]

AAFs are a hellhole. They are a non-standardized standard, and the error messages are generally useless. There's a couple ways around this. As mentioned above, OMF is one of them. Another is AATranslator, which I use all the time to convert AAFs, OMFs, and Pro Tools Sessions.

Premiere, Media Composer, Resolve all have their own different issues with exporting AAFs. If it loads in Pro Tools then export an OMF and an AAF from there and import that. If that doesn't work, your best bet is AATranslating a Pro Tools Session to AAF, which should have the best compatibility with Logic.

Also, is this the best way to do it? Or should I have him bounce the dialogue and sound fx bussed together as two separate tracks?

Vs mixing like 1000 different recordings and sounds?

Well... that is the job. If you're doing this solo, you also have to edit the whole thing, which will take up the majority of your time spent on the project. Adding in all the sound effects/foley is another big chunk. You'll be getting your hands significantly more dirty than you do on mixing music composed with sample libraries. All the boring important stuff is done for you with samples. Film edits and mix start really raw, so if you're not familiar with how to really get in there with fader riding/EQ/compression/noise reduction you'll learn quick.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

AAFs are a hellhole. They are a non-standardized standard, and the error messages are generally useless. There's a couple ways around this. As mentioned above, OMF is one of them. Another is AATranslator, which I use all the time to convert AAFs, OMFs, and Pro Tools Sessions.

Premiere, Media Composer, Resolve all have their own different issues with exporting AAFs. If it loads in Pro Tools then export an OMF and an AAF from there and import that. If that doesn't work, your best bet is AATranslating a Pro Tools Session to AAF, which should have the best compatibility with Logic.



Well... that is the job. If you're doing this solo, you also have to edit the whole thing, which will take up the majority of your time spent on the project. Adding in all the sound effects/foley is another big chunk. You'll be getting your hands significantly more dirty than you do on mixing music composed with sample libraries. All the boring important stuff is done for you with samples. Film edits and mix start really raw, so if you're not familiar with how to really get in there with fader riding/EQ/compression/noise reduction you'll learn quick.

For sure, I’m looking forward to it.

I’ve recorded, and mixed bands and I’ve recorded dialogue and done noise reduction and post production for a short documentary twice now so I feel like those combined backgrounds will have prepared me for 90% of this. It’s just getting the files in order. Will definitely be a new era of mixing for me but I am all about the challenge/commission.

Thank you all for these replies, I’ll start with these first few tips and see if it works out! Cheers

 

[Baronvonheadless]

So my friend who had the AAF opening in Pro Tools tried to export an OMF from Protools out of the AAF he had, and it was like way smaller for some reason and I downloaded it quickly, but when trying to open it in Logic I got the following error.




The filmmaker is going to try to export an OMF from Premiere for me, but he had a question.

Would I still have all the info like volume key frames and things like that? He heard AAF had more of those details and OMF might lose some.

Anyone mix a film in Logic and have any tips on the best way to get the files?

 

[kidslow]

If you get a reference mix, and you're going to remix anyway, do the editor's choices of volume keyframes block you from proceeding? Did your friend with Pro Tools not try to export an AAF from Pro Tools? As for the differences between OMF and AAF, google is your huckleberry.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

If you get a reference mix, and you're going to remix anyway, do the editor's choices of volume keyframes block you from proceeding? Did your friend with Pro Tools not try to export an AAF from Pro Tools? As for the differences between OMF and AAF, google is your huckleberry.

First time doing anything like this. Would an AAF from pro tools be different than an AAF from premiere in logic?

 

[fakemaxwell]

Anyone mix a film in Logic and have any tips on the best way to get the files?

Not that this is helpful for you at this exact moment, but no I don't think many people mix films in Logic. It's really just not designed for it. Pro Tools is obviously the big one, but Reaper and Nuendo also work well.

Would I still have all the info like volume key frames and things like that? He heard AAF had more of those details and OMF might lose some.

The first thing I do on 99% of projects is strip that all away. Even if the editor had a great mind for sound, the available tools in Premiere are fairly primitive and not as well suited as using a DAW.

The OMF not working out of Pro Tools is kind of odd, tbh. I'd try again, also try an embedded AAF vs a separate AAF. I've used Vordio to convert an XML from Premiere, but that's just for Reaper unfortunately. I think Pro Tools has a trial that you could use to try things too.

 

[kidslow]

I prefer Studio One. It has good AAF capabilities and better video handling than Reaper. I certainly wouldn't be using Logic, horses for courses and such.

First time doing anything like this. Would an AAF from pro tools be different than an AAF from premiere in logic?

The export from any program might be different than the export from any other when it comes to post-production workflows. Especially given @fakemaxwell 's note about the inherent jankiness of AAF, even more worth a try. Did you read the link I shared up above? That's where I got the idea. It has a very specific set of instructions for how to export from Premiere to Logic.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

I prefer Studio One. It has good AAF capabilities and better video handling than Reaper. I certainly wouldn't be using Logic, horses for courses and such.


The export from any program might be different than the export from any other when it comes to post-production workflows. Especially given @fakemaxwell 's note about the inherent jankiness of AAF, even more worth a try. Did you read the link I shared up above? That's where I got the idea. It has a very specific set of instructions for how to export from Premiere to Logic.

I haven’t been able to deep dive yet, but I will. Just glanced and passed it along the grapevine. I’m performing tonight. Thank u all for your help, I’ll definitely exhaust every resource here for a solution.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

So, we tried to export an AAF from pro tools instead of premiere and it’s still weird.

As far as I know u can’t export the AAF with the wav files attached? So he exported them and has the 3,000 Audio wav files in a folder. I downloaded both and when opening the AAF in logic it of course says (this file cannot be found in its expected location). But it won’t let be search or locate for the folder that holds all of the files which would be ideal.

It will only let me search/locate/open one file at a time and it has to be the specific one.

Is there another way to do this?

I guess the next attempt will be the omf directly from premiere?



How is this not easier in 2024. This is so fucking annoying haha.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

Btw, what’s the best way to transfer the omf/super large file online? Seems like Dropbox/Google drive might not be the best? It’s like 296gb.

We transfer or something? The film maker is going to try to export as omf from premiere but he’s in a different city.

Thank you all.

 

[timprebble]

How is this not easier in 2024. This is so fucking annoying haha.

No disrespect but this is so fckng easy in 2024. it was similarly very easy 2 decades ago. But you (a) need to use the right tools and (b) have tested the entire sound post workflow before final handover eg have a test scene output to AAF and verify you can import it correctly.

Sorry but you are in for a world of pain. Cutting sound FX & AMB (& Foley?) for a feature would take an experienced sound editor many many weeks of hard work, with access to many sound libraries.
And a dialogue editor would similarly spend many weeks completing dialogue edit, using alt takes when needed, cueing ADR & V/O, fitting and filling ADR. And thats before a single sound is predubbed.

Good luck, you're going to need it.


I dont know how you can solve your issues with Logic. Being required to search file by file is fundamentally flawed, especially if all the media is in one folder. I think you need someone with ProTools to open the AAF, locate all files (which in ProTools takes one click) but even then, how you get that across to Logic with all media AND handles intact is beyond me. It is also likely why it is very very rare to hear of anyone mixing a film in Logic.... If no sound editing has already been done, I would be putting the brakes on the project. Mixing is not sound editing.


Delivery of 300Gb = ship an HD.
Then you have a backup copy of all the media.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

No disrespect but this is so fckng easy in 2024. it was similarly very easy 2 decades ago. But you (a) need to use the right tools and (b) have tested the entire sound post workflow before final handover eg have a test scene output to AAF and verify you can import it correctly.

Sorry but you are in for a world of pain. Cutting sound FX & AMB (& Foley?) for a feature would take an experienced sound editor many many weeks of hard work, with access to many sound libraries.
And a dialogue editor would similarly spend many weeks completing dialogue edit, using alt takes when needed, cueing ADR & V/O, fitting and filling ADR. And thats before a single sound is predubbed.

Good luck, you're going to need it.

No disrespect taken, however your post isn’t exactly helpful and no disrespect you sound like a gate keeping tosser.

I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to do this in logic in 2024. Shouldn’t a daw be a daw.

So what would the right tools be in this case?

A different daw?

The filmmaker isn’t as experienced in this, not sure how much he’s done in the past. I was put in contact with him through my friend who is also a music producer (not film producer, the guy with protools). & they even had issues getting it to work in protools first…

I’m an experienced mixer as far as music goes but yes, this is a first for me.

And diving in headfirst is how I like to work. Actual information is helpful, and what I’m looking for here - not jabs at my experience or skill set or condescending remarks about my odds.

 

[fakemaxwell]

The sound files are nearly 300GB out of Premiere? That seems unlikely, even if you do a full file AAF. Something is going wacky here.

Really think you need to skip logic for a minute and trial Pro Tools just to eliminate some variables.

 

[timprebble]

"I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to do this in logic in 2024"

Good greif, you've already had it pointed out how wrong this belief is by three people. "A daw is a daw" is so clearly not true, your own posts show this. Accusing me of gate keeping because you do not like the truth does you no favours. Good luck with it.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

The sound files are nearly 300GB out of Premiere? That seems unlikely, even if you do a full file AAF. Something is going wacky here.

Really think you need to skip logic for a minute and trial Pro Tools just to eliminate some variables.

From what I understand, the filmmaker exported it with a setting that bounces the tracks as he edited them and includes them unedited. So everything is doubled. So the AAF contained about 3,477 audio files. So in reality there would be half that total.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

"I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to do this in logic in 2024"

Good greif, you've already had it pointed out how wrong this belief is by three people. "A daw is a daw" is so clearly not true, your own posts show this. Accusing me of gate keeping because you do not like the truth does you no favours. Good luck with it.

You’ve not offered one single bit of helpful advice, if there’s anything you’ve done besides be rude it’s echo bits of regurgitated information, that others who have been more helpful have already said, except more rudely.


I’d love to know why studio one, reaper, pro tools and nuendo can all handle this but Logic Pro can’t. I’m not doubting they’re more capable or designed for the workflow, literally trying to have a conversation and learn here.

If you can’t impart information, or handle a conversation, find another thread to measure ur dick in?