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Logic X: how to copy region automation?

The manual is misleading here. It says:


Copy automation between tracks

1 Hold down Shift while dragging a selection within the automation area.

2 Choose Edit > Copy (or use the corresponding key command).

3 Select the track you want to copy the automation to.

4 Choose Edit > Paste (or use the corresponding key command).
...and that only works for track automation, not region automation.

And re. your suggested way to do it, Jay, it doesn't work either. It should be as simple as selecting some nodes, press copy, and then select another region, place the playhead where you want it, and use paste. That doesn't work here - not if the destination region is selected, and not if it's deselected. If I do what the manual says, I get a message saying that "Command not available because there are no events selected". I get this when I try to copy the automation nodes.
 
Vik, thanks a lot for confirming my experiences.
Maybe the reason is somehow connected to program settings or maybe even to used keycommands
(however, there is no single keycommand that refers to "region automation") ?

(Copying track automation of course works fine...)
 
I think it's a bug + possibly an everything-but-perfect implementation of this feature... Copying some automation nodes from one region to another should be implemented in a very straightforward way. I've had the same experience as you lately, several times. I'm using the latest Logic version and OS X 10.5.5.
 
I've just tested this out and when I follow the marquee tool method, it also copies the entire MIDI region and its contents.
  1. I use the marquee tool to select the automation data in the region.
  2. I press copy.
  3. I place the playhead at the beginning of the region I want to paste to and select the region.
  4. I paste and it pastes the entire region (including the automation) I just copied instead of just the automation data over the top of the existing region.
 
And how did you record it/enter it? If it works for you, but not for Living Fossil, J. Wright and myself it's kind of interesting to know what the difference is between what you do and what the rest of us do.
 
I drew it into the first region and copied it as described. I am out of town and away from my computer for a week so that is all I can do to help for now.
 
I suppose it's one of those bugs that don't happen on all systems.
(once there was a bug called Putte-bug about ten years ago...it appeared on some systems and after a long, long time apple decided to fix it)

However, as Vik writes:
It would be good if copying automation data would be made more straightforward...
Since it's a relatively new feature (that somehow replaced the similar procedure in Logic 9) maybe there
is hope...
 
I drew it into the first region and copied it as described. I am out of town and away from my computer for a week so that is all I can do to help for now.
Unless something has happened lately which I'm not aware of, Logic is still totally unpredictable when it comes to dealing with/editing/entering automation. There are several ways to enter eg volume automation, and they often end up fighting with each other. So maybe that particular method works, but in all my attempts to make it work it has created a new region instead of pasting existing automation into a region.

Did you use Smart Controls?
 
I've just tried this & I'm having the same result as the OP.

I'm not sure because I've never done it before but could you copy region automation from one audio region to another pre 10.2.1? I thought the main purpose of region automation is so you can conveniently loop or copy paste a region along with it's automation.

EDIT: I've just tried it in my zipped version of 10.2 & it's the same result there, you cannot copy paste region automation from one audio region to another.

Are we all talking about the same thing? Logic's Host Automation set to Region, not MIDI Draw, right?

Jay In that picture did you just copy paste the 1st audio region as the 2nd to then carry out this automation example? Because if not then the second region in that pic is actually a copy of the 1st region including its automation that's been pasted over top of the original, which would be completely replaced if you have the drag: option at the top of the arrange window set to "no overlap", the giveaway is the ".2" at the end of the region name in the 2nd region meaning copy 2.

If not then I'm totally stumped as to how you can copy paste automation from one audio region to another & the rest of us can't.

Just to be 100% do you mind trying again using 2 regions with completely different names or even better 2 very different samples/loops?
 
I'm having the same results as Jay. I use the automation select tool to select the region automation, it turns white, I use the key command cmd-C and then paste it at the play head. Two different audio regions with different names.
 
I'm having the same results as Jay. I use the automation select tool to select the region automation, it turns white, I use the key command cmd-C and then paste it at the play head. Two different audio regions with different names.

Are you from an audio file to a different audiofile (i. e. not the same file)
As PJMorgan pointed out it's in fact possible that it's overseen that the whole file is copied if the destination is the same audio.
 
Yes, with two completely different files. But when I tried to repeat it now it actually didn't work... Now it either copy the audio file and automation or I'm not able to copy at all.. I'm gonna do some more tests but it seems there is a bug, yes.
 
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I tried multiple times now without succeeding, so I guess I could have copied the whole audio file the first time without noticing. Seems strange that it should work just that first time, and not when I tried to repeat it. Sorry about the misinformation.
 
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There are dozens of ways to try to enter automation in Logic (host automation/MIDI automation/MIDI Draw/with or without Smart Controls, with or without hardware controllers, using the pencil tool, using Track Automation, using Region automation and so on - in almost any combination). We're talking about dozens of ways to get this wrong. Counting hours, I have literally spent weeks trying to figure out how this is meant to be used, and haven't yet found a good solution.

The Logic/Kontakt combo out of the box somehow invites to using not host based, but MIDI based automation, because then you don't need to go in and manually assign eg Dynamics to CC1 etc - its' done for you already. But I wasted a lot of hours just on discovering that the solution that seems to work out of the box creates a lot of problems later. But as Jay suggests, the way to go may be to use the "host based" solution in Kontakt, meaning that you need to do manual assignments in one way or the other.

Next problem up: Kontakt and CC automation doesn't seem to be a real priority for Apple (and almost no orchestral libraries exist for Apple's own sampler) This results in a lot of surprises for the end users. In my attempts to make Region based automation work, I have come across several problems: 1) I get an error message saying that no events are selected. 2) A full region is pasted instead of just the automation (when I try to copy). 3) If I do the exact same things twice, I don't necessarily get the same results. This means that maybe someone tried to make it work succeeded, once, and didn't discover that if you try it twice something else will happen.

I've no spent another couple of hours trying to make this work, trying some of the most obvious ways to automate in Logic. There are many problems with track based automation as well, especially if you start to enter your automation in one way, and then continue another way - that whole process is everything but logical.

But in terms of copying automation, I have not managed one single time (in the current version) to copy region based automation from one region to another. I get only two possible results: either the whole region is pasted, or I get a message that no events are selected (even if I just selected them).

I don't see why a special way to select automation nodes should be needed (marquee tool, automation select tool..) - we should just need to rubberband some automation nodes with the regular pointer tool: then they'll change colour as a confirmation that they are now selected - and then use copy and paste.

In addition to the problems with copying automation, and problems with Logic saying that no events are selected just after I selected them, and problems with things working in different ways if you try several times, and the problems with starting automation eg with the pencil tool and then continuing with another method, one of the main problems have to do with the fact that sometimes, I can move a fader on a hardware controller and hear that it alters the dynamics - but still: I can't automate it.

Then there's the really long menu list for Kontakt parameters (more than 500 entries)... in order to select one of the parameters I actually have assigned to something, I need to manually scroll past 500+ which I haven't assigned.

Add the use of a hardware controller into this, and Smart Controls which defaults not to show whichever parameters that are assigned, but instead to show the first (eg 8) numerical values.... if you try to count all the possible ways to try work with CC automation in Logic (I'll exclude Articulation ID automation for now, for obvious reasons), you're almost guaranteed to waste a lot of time. The best solution for automating CCs seem to be to avoid the automation feature altogether, and use MIDIDraw instead, with all the limitations it implies.

And btw, I have sent Apple an embarrassingly high number of feedback posts about this, over several years.
 
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