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Liquid cooling or air fan?

d.healey said:
I use a fanless system
Click to expand...

and also Wunderhorn - you write
"There are systems possible that don't need any active cooling."

I was curious and I've been seaching and found at a Danish site:
'Asus Ryzen 7 fanless PC'

It's a rather small rectangular box. And it's hard to find out what exactly the processor is (like how many cores/threads) But this is the only 'high-end' model I've found. Still, I'm very, very interested in this one, it can have up to 64 gb ram - enough for me.

Oh, I can see that they write that they also deliver fanless with i7 but without any details - I'll have to talk to them...
 
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Silence - or close to it - is the desired state in today's DAWs.

That starts with ensuring you do not have or need anything that ever requires a watercooler etc. I do not use a graphics card here and have the same three legendary Nochua fans keeping everything cool and quiet in the 3 DAWs built over the last 10 years.

CPU (13th Gen i5-13600K) never gets past 30c and the entire case is sitting at 28C all day long.

I guess I am trying to understand what anyone would be doing (DAW wise) that could ever require a water cooler?

S
 
stigbn said:
and also Wunderhorn - you write
"There are systems possible that don't need any active cooling."

I was curious and I've been seaching and found at a Danish site:
'Asus Ryzen 7 fanless PC'

It's a rather small rectangular box. And it's hard to find out what exactly the processor is (like how many cores/threads) But this is the only 'high-end' model I've found. Still, I'm very, very interested in this one, it can have up to 64 gb ram - enough for me.

Oh, I can see that they write that they also deliver fanless with i7 but without any details - I'll have to talk to them...
Click to expand...
I've built a couple of systems using HD Plex cases - https://hdplex.com/

If you want something pre-built, this guy seems to know what he's doing, I've spoken with him a few times when I was building my systems to ask his advice and he was very helpful - https://www.fullysilentpcs.com/?v=dd65ef9a5579
 
d.healey said:
I've built a couple of systems using HD Plex cases - https://hdplex.com/

If you want something pre-built, this guy seems to know what he's doing, I've spoken with him a few times when I was building my systems to ask his advice and he was very helpful - https://www.fullysilentpcs.com/?v=dd65ef9a5579
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Thank you but I've found a place, very close to where I live, where they make pre-build fanless pc's, I'll talk to them first : https://www.electrola.dk/amd-ryzen7-fanless (the site is in Danish, but you can select ram and drives)
 
stigbn said:
Thank you but I've found a place, very close to where I live, where they make pre-build fanless pc's, I'll talk to them first : https://www.electrola.dk/amd-ryzen7-fanless (the site is in Danish, but you can select ram and drives)
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I have that same case next to me, I completely forgot! I'm using it with a 12th Gen Intel NUC as a VM server. It's a lovely little case, with an NVME on the motherboard and an SSD in the lid it gives me plenty of storage too. Not sure I'd want it as a main system though, but it depends on your requirements.
 
ip20 said:
high power music computers
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I spend most of my time writing and compiling code these days, and my music writing is mostly in Musescore so my use case is probably different to yours. However compiling uses a lot of threads at 100%, when doing this the CPU temp gets up to about 65C, I've not seen it go much beyond that. I also do a lot of multi-channel audio editing and video editing/rendering and haven't had any issues.

I used good thermal paste, I don't have a discreet GPU, I use only SSDs, I undervolted the CPU, I lowered the system's max TDP (this gives my system a safe hard limit, but not something I've reached).

I almost forgot, I replaced the CPU IHS with a pure copper one, and used liquid metal thermal compound as the interface. (this one - https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-kit-intel-12th-gen). Popping off the IHS is not for the fainthearted!

I'm also not using the fanless system in the best environment, I have it in a cupboard with the door closed so it gets very little airflow, outside of the cupboard I think I would get even lower temps. Right now it's at 42C and has been on for about 12 hours, not sure what the room temperature is, probably about 20C.
 
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d.healey said:
I spend most of my time writing and compiling code these days, and my music writing is mostly in Musescore so my use case is probably different to yours. However compiling uses a lot of threads at 100%, when doing this the CPU temp gets up to about 65C, I've not seen it go much beyond that. I also do a lot of multi-channel audio editing and video editing/rendering and haven't had any issues.

I used good thermal paste, I don't have a discreet GPU, I use only SSDs, I undervolted the CPU, I lowered the system's max TDP (this gives my system a safe hard limit, but not something I've reached).

I almost forgot, I replaced the CPU IHS with a pure copper one, and used liquid metal thermal compound as the interface. (this one - https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-kit-intel-12th-gen). Popping off the IHS is not for the fainthearted!

I'm also not using the fanless system in the best environment, I have it in a cupboard with the door closed so it gets very little airflow, outside of the cupboard I think I would get even lower temps. Right now it's at 42C and has been on for about 12 hours, not sure what the room temperature is, probably about 20C.
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Thanks so much for the info and details.
 
MartinH. said:
How?
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Apps and plugins you open draw less from the power supply, bc 10v/1000v is less than 10v/500v, and this adds up - so the system don't get as taxed as a whole, and therefore needs less cooling. The power draw of your system depend on the software you open to use (this can be measured), and the apps take different shares of the power supply, so you need a certain overhead as a "buffer zone", ime. You can even set the fans to react to a certain treshold of power load in the BIOS. Every time I argue this, experts argue it shouldn't be necessary, so it's their theory vs my experience - but they are usually not producers who are super sensitive to fan noise. However, this calibration tactics does work for me.
 
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GtrString said:
Apps and plugins you open draw less from the power supply, bc 10v/1000v is less than 10v/500v, and this adds up - so the system don't get as taxed as a whole, and therefore needs less cooling. The power draw of your system depend on the software you open to use (this can be measured), and the apps take different shares of the power supply, so you need a certain overhead as a "buffer zone", ime. You can even set the fans to react to a certain treshold of power load in the BIOS. Every time I argue this, experts argue it shouldn't be necessary, so it's their theory vs my experience - but they are usually not producers who are super sensitive to fan noise. However, this calibration tactics does work for me.
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Are you trolling?
 
GtrString said:
bc 10v/1000v is less than 10v/500v
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This is true, 10/1000 is less than 10/500, but it isn't relevant here.

A PSU is rated by watts, not volts. Even if it was rated in volts 10v is still 10v.

The system will only draw what it needs, so 10 watts is 10 watts no matter how big your PSU is. Wattage can be directly converted to BTUs if you want to calculate the heat output, and therefore the fan level required for the cooling.

A higher rating PSU's most efficient draw level will be higher than a lower rating PSU. So using a PSU that is too large is less efficient. You want your usage to be in the efficiency curve's sweet spot.

Larger fans can turn more slowly to move the same amount of air. So if you have fans in your system and you want it quiet, get big fans.
 
d.healey said:
The system will only draw what it needs, so 10 watts is 10 watts no matter how big your PSU is.
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Yes but higher PSUs won't need to turn on its fans until more watts are used.

The point where the fans turn on usually depends on a percentage of the total power a PSU can deliver.

Liquid cooling or air fan?

That said any decent PSU these days will run at 0db unless you're gaming or doing something that's really pushing the machine.
 
d.healey said:
This is true, 10/1000 is less than 10/500, but it isn't relevant here.

A PSU is rated by watts, not volts. Even if it was rated in volts 10v is still 10v.

The system will only draw what it needs, so 10 watts is 10 watts no matter how big your PSU is. Wattage can be directly converted to BTUs if you want to calculate the heat output, and therefore the fan level required for the cooling.

A higher rating PSU's most efficient draw level will be higher than a lower rating PSU. So using a PSU that is too large is less efficient. You want your usage to be in the efficiency curve's sweet spot.

Larger fans can turn more slowly to move the same amount of air. So if you have fans in your system and you want it quiet, get big fans.
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Correct!

Also never skimp on the PSU... Its the most important component on your build. All components depend on it.

Agree with the fans. Also getting high quality fans is a must. After i started using Noctua, my pc has been half poop color (black and brown) throughout the years. Their coolers are expensive buy you get exactly what you paid for and free support for all upcoming new sockets.
 
Pier said:
Yes but higher PSUs won't need to turn on its fans until more watts are used.
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Most high Q PSUs have intelligent fan control. But you can get a fanless PSU, you can get them up to some high wattages these days. Seasonic make quality PSUs and do an excellent modular fanless one at 700W - https://seasonic.com/prime-fanless-tx

I've used that one and for smaller systems Silverstone make a nice one which I'm using in a semi-passive ryzen system - https://www.silverstonetek.com/en/product/info/power-supplies/NJ450-SXL/
 
The real solution to computers that make noise is to put them where you don't hear them - like in the garage on the other side of your studio wall.

But I haven't heard my Mac Studio once, and it's 3-1/2' from my ears.
 
d.healey said:
Most high Q PSUs have intelligent fan control. But you can get a fanless PSU, you can get them up to some high wattages these days. Seasonic make quality PSUs and do an excellent modular fanless one at 700W - https://seasonic.com/prime-fanless-tx

I've used that one and for smaller systems Silverstone make a nice one which I'm using in a semi-passive ryzen system - https://www.silverstonetek.com/en/product/info/power-supplies/NJ450-SXL/
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Yes Seasonic makes great PSU. As a matter of fact IIRC, the silversone NJ450SXL OEM is Seasonic. They have made PSU for EVGA, fractal, Corsair and other brands.

Ive been using SFX psu since long ago because of my smaller itx cases. My first one was the silverstone gold 450. I did upgrade to the corsair SF750 plat. which is (with the ASUS) the best in that size. Fan only moves when i turn on my pc.
 
Nick Batzdorf said:
The real solution to computers that make noise is to put them where you don't hear them - like in the garage on the other side of your studio wall.

But I haven't heard my Mac Studio once, and it's 3-1/2' from my ears.
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My pc is next to my monitor and its practically silent, even when under load.
 
Pier said:
There's a difference between practically silent and 0db.
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Even enclosing things with loud fans in an open box pointing away from you knocks the noise way down.

But about 30 years ago I had a trap door cut in my wall, leading to a shelf in the garage with all my machines on it. Then I used a door knob cutter to drill a hole for the cables near the floor.

It served me well until I got the Mac Studio and didn't need the "machine room" or any slave machines. Whether it was practically silent or 0dB didn't matter - the test was that I never heard anything.
 
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