Kontakt with Dorico Tutorial
- Thread starter jmoyers7032
- Start date
mducharme
Senior Member
At the moment, the biggest challenge with using CSS in Dorico directly is that Dorico's latency compensation will not adjust the CC positions, so when you compensate for the latency of the notes in Dorico by setting a negative track delay for CSS, the notes will be in the right place, but the dynamics will be in the wrong place, with every event happening too late. At the moment, as a result, it is easiest to work with libraries directly that have lower latency.
They've said they will address this but it requires some major code changes to accomplish.
Until then, NotePerformer will be your best bet for CSS.
They've said they will address this but it requires some major code changes to accomplish.
Until then, NotePerformer will be your best bet for CSS.
jmoyers7032
Member
Actually I have been doing that but I’ve gotten strange playback results with the NPPE. So I wanted to try bypassing that and using CSS “direct.”
jmoyers7032
Member
Good to know, thank you.
Onemandown
Probably an AI
At one point I reached out to John at CSS and he strongly advised against using cinematic studio series with Dorico. If notation is a must then maybe you could try writing your piece with another lib and then exporting the MIDI and adjusting it in a traditional DAW using CSS instead. Maybe you don't wanna spring for a DAW that you won't be using that much but there are some viable options in the free DAW market as well, like Waveform. Just something to consider.
mducharme
Senior Member
I find a lot of vendors recommend against using Dorico with the same blanket recommendation they use against all notation software. They just don't want people to buy it and try and get support from them when it doesn't work. Their recommendation is based on an assumption that the MIDI tooling in notation software is non-existent, or is much worse than that of a DAW.
In most cases that assumption might be correct, but Dorico currently has MIDI tooling on par with what you find in most DAWs, better than many actually. IMO it is nonsense to recommend against using Dorico due to lack of MIDI tooling, otherwise they should also be recommending against Pro Tools and Ableton because the MIDI tools aren't up to snuff. But, they don't, because any DAW, no matter how terrible the MIDI tools, is apparently perfect, and any notation program, no matter how wonderful the MIDI tools, is apparently terrible.
jmoyers7032
Member
Thanks, I could try Reaper I guess. I was just hoping not go to the extra trouble. Thanks for the assist.
jmoyers7032
Member
Yes, I find their position on this oddly out of date.
Wensleydale
Active Member
I think you will find it far less trouble to sort out (with the help of Wallander support if necessary, plus the very helpful experts here) why NPPE isn’t working for you.
Apologies in advance if I have misunderstood. I'm new to this but I've got my Kontakt libraries set up in Dorico using a couple of options:
- Play back template - https://steinberg.help/dorico_pro/v..._t.html?hl=creating,custom,playback,templates
- "Ad-hoc"
1. Fire up Dorico
2. Go To Play
3. Got VST and MIDI
4. Click on + sign under instruments
5. In the Drop down select Native Instruments -> Kontakt 7
6. The click on the "e" type button which is next to the cog wheel (which is next to the words Kontakt 7).
This will bring up Kontakt 7 and you can select your library here.
8. Then go to the Track Inspector (next to VST and MIDI) and under Routing, click on the drop down button and select Kontakt 7 - if you click on the cog here, you can set \ confirm the assigned instrument and make sure you have changed the name from Kontakt 7 to whatever your instrument is.
If your plug-ins aren't showing then make sure you've allowed them under Edit, Preferences and VST Plug-ins.
This doesn't of course address the issues mentioned above.
jmoyers7032
Member
This is a big help, thank you.
Onemandown
Probably an AI
Well I did try to tell him about the DAW functionality of Dorico but he indicated to me that it was quite difficult to use the lib with a notation program. I, too, believe that it could be done, but I'd just like to relay the information he gave to me
Onemandown
Probably an AI
No problem! Reaper does have some notation ability so hopefully it shouldn't kill your workflow completely
Reaper notation is very limited. I did start out my Orchestral journey using Reaper as I’m very familiar with it but quickly moved onto Dorico via MuseScore.
Onemandown
Probably an AI
Oof yeah I wouldn't recommend using the notation view in a DAW if you can avoid it. I'm (if I do say so myself) pretty fluid with notation but I don't mess with the notation in Cubase because it's miserable. If I had to notate something then I would write it in Dorico and port that into Cubase for editing. Musescore 4 is pretty incredible however and their Musesounds seem to have Noteperformer-esque features. Just out of curiosity are you on Dorico 5?
Yeah; Dorico 5 Elements. I'm new to all of this and my background is as a mediocre bass player who has decided in retirement to widen my musical knowledge into more classical theory and composition and I'm enjoying it. A steep learning curve but a month of ScoreClub and a couple of ThinkSpace courses + Dorico and SSO and I'm on my way.
Lots of great advice on here and I just need to remember not to look at all the offers for additional plugins etc. I need to learn to use what I've got before blowing my retirement pot and having to go back to work!
Lots of great advice on here and I just need to remember not to look at all the offers for additional plugins etc. I need to learn to use what I've got before blowing my retirement pot and having to go back to work!
Wensleydale
Active Member
That may have been because he doesn’t know much about the current state of notation programs. Did he specify where the difficulty lies?
I don’t have CSS, but I see someone made a Dorico expression map for it: https://forums.steinberg.net/t/dorico-expression-map-for-cinematic-studio-strings/783096. However, even he/she later suggested using NPPE instead.
Onemandown
Probably an AI
According to John the main problem was the playability. The lookahead feature comes with some latency so there would be a lot of adjustment to get CSS to play back correctly AND for the notes to line up. And I'm fairly certain he knew what he was talking about because he additionally stated that a couple users were able to figure out workarounds but that the process entailed some difficulty. I'd be curious if a Dorico 5 user with CSS could step in and explain how 5 is doing with this...4 had limited options in the Play view.
I have Dorico 5 + Cubase 13 + NPPE Cinematic Studio series template + NPPE CineSamples template.
After finishing recently (a couple of days ago) a piece of music In Dorico using Cinematic Studio Strings via NPPE and mostly Cinesamples Woodwinds and brass (also NPPE template) and after exporting them to Cubase 13 for final touches and mixing, I found out that CSS was the trickiest part to get right in Cubase after Dorico. Everything else was fairly straightforward, but CSS - oh boy...
A pity, since I love CSS... Just my two cents...
Maybe next time gonna try the advice given by Onemandown above: "...try writing your piece with another lib and then exporting the MIDI and adjusting it in a traditional DAW using CSS instead."
So not gonna give up on CSS in Cubase, maybe just in Dorico...
After finishing recently (a couple of days ago) a piece of music In Dorico using Cinematic Studio Strings via NPPE and mostly Cinesamples Woodwinds and brass (also NPPE template) and after exporting them to Cubase 13 for final touches and mixing, I found out that CSS was the trickiest part to get right in Cubase after Dorico. Everything else was fairly straightforward, but CSS - oh boy...
A pity, since I love CSS... Just my two cents...
Maybe next time gonna try the advice given by Onemandown above: "...try writing your piece with another lib and then exporting the MIDI and adjusting it in a traditional DAW using CSS instead."
So not gonna give up on CSS in Cubase, maybe just in Dorico...
