Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

Kirk Hunter Diamond confusions

Good Lord, have I opened a can of worms... At least my suspicions have been validated that this library is a hot mess on terms of ease of use, documentation, support/help, etc. but might justify the time needed to use it effectively. Frustrating thing is it seems to have so much potential (I particularly love the video on the TVEC 4) that its worth the candle, especially considering what little I paid for it. Just not sure I can afford the time to pick out the fly shit from the pepper. Great to know now though that others have, so I know where to turn. A big thanks to all for chiming in and offering assistance. I’ll probably get around to it in the next week or so... Just wish Kirk had spent more time organizing and not just throwing it up against the wall... and gives me pause as to his other offerings. Are they similar in terms of being user hostile ?

Bob
 
Please always remember that it is an old outdated lib that you get for a minimum price. I bought Concert Strings II for the same price and got a more modern, sorted library with an interface, which really allows to taylor the lib as I need it. And I use it very often. Alone the possibility to paint your desired vibrato curve is a great tool (not the sound of the vibrato or the speed but the amount controlled by the wheel). The built in reverb may be old fashioned but: it works right out of the box. So don´t complain if the car from the 50ties uses too much gas...
 
bcarwell said:
Good Lord, have I opened a can of worms... At least my suspicions have been validated that this library is a hot mess on terms of ease of use, documentation, support/help, etc. but might justify the time needed to use it effectively. Frustrating thing is it seems to have so much potential (I particularly love the video on the TVEC 4) that its worth the candle, especially considering what little I paid for it. Just not sure I can afford the time to pick out the fly shit from the pepper. Great to know now though that others have, so I know where to turn. A big thanks to all for chiming in and offering assistance. I’ll probably get around to it in the next week or so... Just wish Kirk had spent more time organizing and not just throwing it up against the wall... and gives me pause as to his other offerings. Are they similar in terms of being user hostile ?

Bob
Click to expand...
The only other KH library I own is Virtuoso Ensembles which is well organized and easy to understand (and a great library).

Diamond does give me the fits but once I found the TVEC 4 nkis I at least felt I had found the good stuff. I should spend some more time in it mining for gold.

I do wish it had a libraries graphic so it appears in the list with my other Kontakt libraries. I tend to forget I own it.
 
kvr has a support section for KH libraries...you might find some answers about where are the files, there. The latest downloads of Diamond are a few years old by now, KH consolidated them into a smaller download a few years ago by deleting duplicate and unused samples. I don't think he has changed anything in Diamond since then. Inside you will find TVEC3, TVEC4 and even some TVEC1 instrument files...they are all clearly labeled by the folder names. TVEC4 is all you should care about.

Concert Strings 2 and Concert Brass 2 also use the very same TVEC4 instrument engine, but the samples have been redone for those and there are probably some other small improvements, he also came out with something called ESA, to use instead of TVEC4, which didn't really change the fundamental instrument, it added some easy arranging features.
 
Sid Francis said:
Alone the possibility to paint your desired vibrato curve is a great tool (not the sound of the vibrato or the speed but the amount controlled by the wheel).
Click to expand...
You can do this in Diamond as well.

DerGeist said:
I do wish it had a libraries graphic so it appears in the list with my other Kontakt libraries. I tend to forget I own it.
Click to expand...

Move all the instrument directories to your Kontakt Factory Library in a folder titled Kirk Hunter Diamond. Then they'll appear in your libraries tab. As an alternative, you can add the library to your Quick View. Or, you can do as some have done and use the workaround that puts any third party library in your library browser. Search YouTube. I'm not sure NI likes people doing this, however.

Dewdman42 said:
Concert Strings 2 and Concert Brass 2 also use the very same TVEC4
Click to expand...
Actually, I believe they use TVEC5, which apparently has some improvements.

Sid Francis said:
Alone the possibility to paint your desired vibrato curve is a great tool (not the sound of the vibrato or the speed but the amount controlled by the wheel).
Click to expand...
You can do this in Diamond as well.
 
Last edited:
sostenuto said:
Apologies for 'diversion', but considering seriously KH Front Row on current APD promo.
Already have Diamond SO, Virtuoso Ensembles, Spotlight Solo Strings.
Do you haves advices on incremental value of Front Row addition ?
Click to expand...
I watched the run through video and didn't really like the sound of it. I much prefer the Spotlight Solo strings from KH, which can also be used to create an ensemble, though not really a substitute for a good ensemble patch.
 
Spotlight is a hidden gem for me. It was one of my first Kontakt library purchases and I still enjoy it a lot. Diamond's ui is meh but it does have some great sounds in there!
 
Sostenuto- Yes my TVEC has 9 instrument folders with nki's in each. Violin folder has 3, including "a 1st Violins 18,9,4,1 Players All Articulations" But when I click on it in Kontakt/Cubase I get "Samples Missing" (apparently wav files).

I tried searching the file system and Batch Resave on the TVEC violin file, neither of which worked, with 2539 files missing.

Any clues ? Maybe I'm in the same boat as Ifness who wrote KH and got an updated smaller version download in which the TVEC interface works. I've written KH for the same request but so far have heard nothing.

Am I doing something wrong with my download such that I don't get the TVEC instruments or U.I. working, or do I just need to get the smaller, later version (that is if KH provides it...).

Thanks to all for contributing. This has all been very informative and useful. I don't know how people find the time to step through so many large libraries for the Easter Eggs but maybe the Easter Bunny will be kind to me soon.

Bob
 
Surprisingly just received a new download authorization from KH although oddly no explanation or confirmation that this download will include a functional TVEC 4. Have a query into them requesting an answer, but can only assume that's what this is. Better be, as I'm not about to download again another gonzo file only to find its the same one I got and back at square one.

Bob
 
Just wondering, has anyone else got tvec4 instruments for the woodwinds in this at all?
 
Thanks.. just went through them there..the bassoon was ok.. strings weren't as good as I'd remembered..
 
Gotta say... Kirk Hunter's 'Diamond' does have some 'diamonds in there.

People love to 'poo-poo' the Hunter libraries, but maybe they're jealous of the fact that in a lot of mixes for various purposes they're fantastic... depending on the context and instruments used.

I've composed/produced some pieces with them for playback in large arena-like and outdoor venues for some shows, and people have had nothing but complements on the orchestra..."who'd you use"?...."where'd you get this recorded?"...etc.

They're stunned when I tell them it was instruments from a software library I bought over 15 years ago or so.

A little convoluted to download, organize, and get into all the different options available?....sure, but worth it...but back in the day when they first came out, I didn't know any different.

But worth it in the end.
 
I did find some newer tvec instruments for woodwinds at some point, lemme check when I get home. The samples haven’t been updated since many years ago though.

There was never anything called tvec5. There was something called ESA which you can think of as tvec version 5. The main stuff added to ESA are easy arranger features, the main instrument is essentially the same. It can be confusing to follow as Kirk has tended to update things here or there in a whim without telling anyone and changed the folder structure at times, etc. all for good reasons but usually hard to keep track or follow it over time.
 
I just checked, the last download of Diamond I have is from 2018, I do not think it has changed since then. My download does include some TVE3 woodwind instruments. That would be the last thing he did for woodwinds, with no real different from the older woodwinds, the TVEC3 just consolidates them into a single instrument driven by key switches so that you don't have to wade through a folder full of instrument variations and try to decrypt from the filename which one you want to use, which was how Diamond used to be before TVEC3. I can't remember the changes between TVEC3 and TVEC4, Kirk told me once I have to find it in email, and I will look, but honestly the changes after TVEC3 are subtle and probably more related to CS2 and CB2, but I have to look around, I have some really old saved emails about that.
 
I couldn't find old emails, but looking through stuff refreshed my memory..

I regard KH as a botique sample maker... Things have changed a lot and in a bit of a haphazard manner and not everyone will even have the same dir folder structure on the dir system after interacting with Kirk a few times directly. (shrug)

TVEC3 consolidated the various articulations and section sizes into a single keyswitched instrument accessing samples in a way that previously required you to figure out which specific NKI to load for each articulation or section size or variation.

tvec3.jpg

TVEC4 basically is a lot like TVEC3 but adds a pattern editing and playing mode, I think maybe a better way to edit the micro tuning capabilities. Maybe some other minor stuff. Same basic instruments though. This was originally made for CS2 and CB2, but later back ported to Diamond customers for a fee and then later he just started throwing it in with Diamond for free.

tvec4.jpg
patterns.jpg

The ESA version of the Kontakt interface later added an Easy Arranging mode, but to my knowledge this did not come with Diamond, it only came with CS2 and maybe CB2. Also some Accent and short note dynamic variations and switchable possibilities.

arranger.jpg


Diamond comes with strings and brass that originated in the old Ruby and Emerald products and sample sessions, just like woodwinds. He later tried to pull out those strings and market them as "Concert Strings Legacy" in a standalone product. ..its all kind of confusing how Diamond evolved over time..but anyway Diamond basically has all the old stuff.. To my knowledge, these do not include the ESA interface mentioned above, at least they are not in my Diamond download from 2018. But Kirk seems to make custom downloads for people, so your mileage may vary.

CS2 and CB2 definitely have the ESA interface available, they are also completely new string and brass samples compared to what's in Diamond, and according to kirk all new basic programming in how they work, etc...in other words...supposedly improved instruments...not just because they have TVEC4 or ESA front ends, but also the underlying instruments are just superior to the old stuff in Diamond, which actually originated from real old sample sessions a long time ago and then just evolved into a nicer and nicer Kontakt NKI ui...called TVEC4.

Woodwinds finally got a TVEC3 faceplate added fairly recently, same basic instruments and samples underneath, just more consolidated into a single NKI instrument. KH woodwinds are not known to be particularly great, so whatever.. These are the same woodwind instruments as from 15 years ago Ruby and Emerald. Just a bit nicer TVEC3 UI to use them.

winds.jpg
 
Finally got back to diddling with Kirk Hunter Diamond Symphony.

When I try to load an instrument using my Kontakt 5.7.1 (Full) I get an error that my Kontakt is too old and I need to update.

Yet the Requirements for Diamond on the Kirk Hunter website specify Kontakt 5.7.1 or newer.

Any idea what's wrong ?

Bob
 
This happens when an instrument has been saved using a newer version of Kontakt. Try updating. Your version is pretty old.
 
Rob, you once posted a piece of music you made using KH Spotlight solo strings, I think it was playing a background arpeggio style melody with an accompaning piano, which I thought sounded brilliant.. Is it listed on iTunes or any other media?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom