Is there really a time when you'll become happy with your music?

[fawn]

I mean, feeling proud and happy in general. Not second-guessing everything you create or listening to it again and thinking it's shit and full of flaws.

I don't know, it's probably due to my low self-esteem, other than the fact that I'm still learning how to make orchestral soundtracks (withouit a formal training). I'm always kind of frustrated. I know I'm learning a ton of stuff each day and week, and I'm improving with every new piece I make, but I also feel stressed a lot of the time.

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[vibrationisreality]

I think externalizing vibrations/emotions by composing music is a deeply vulnerable act. It seems to trigger all manner of self doubt. I think it's best to live by 80/20 as regards music composition. Learn to compose FASTER & more DETACHED. Compose each piece to a level where "normal" people won't notice ANYTHING, if you keep obsessing another month or more. Treat it like building cabinets and you're a cabinet maker. Compose a piece in several stages over several days:

• IGNITION: Pure non-judgment idea generation through IMPROVISATION. Sketch out the Essence of the track even if sparse. Evaluate the idea.
• BUILD: If IDEA is a go, take, Sketch and MANUALLY WRITE, Orchestrate and Arrange & Edit into a fully realized track.
• POLISH: Finalize the arrangement and orchestration, add details, tweak, and do final mixing.
• MASTER & DELIVER!!!
• Write, Release, Forget, Repeat: release it into the world through whatever means, YouTube, Spottily, Soundcloud etc.
• Learn to write and release as rapidly as possible but with high QUALITY.

 

[fawn]

I think externalizing vibrations/emotions by composing music is a deeply vulnerable act. It seems to trigger all manner of self doubt. I think it's best to live by 80/20 as regards music composition. Learn to compose FASTER & more DETACHED. Compose each piece to a level where "normal" people won't notice ANYTHING, if you keep obsessing another month or more. Treat it like building cabinets and you're a cabinet maker. Compose a piece in several stages over several days:

• IGNITION: Pure non-judgment idea generation through IMPROVISATION. Sketch out the Essence of the track even if sparse. Evaluate the idea.
• BUILD: If IDEA is a go, take, Sketch and MANUALLY WRITE, Orchestrate and Arrange & Edit into a fully realized track.
• POLISH: Finalize the arrangement and orchestration, add details, tweak, and do final mixing.
• MASTER & DELIVER!!!
• Write, Release, Forget, Repeat: release it into the world through whatever means, YouTube, Spottily, Soundcloud etc.
• Learn to write and release as rapidly as possible but with high QUALITY.

This is actually a really good piece of advice. Especially the thing about seeing the whole composition thing as another job. I struggle doing so

 

[HERVED]

I think this is completely normal behavior. Every artist doubts. All his life.
Evaluating a creation has a technical dimension (mastering your daw and your equipment, making a balanced mix, etc.). The importance of this dimension should not be underestimated. You must reasonably learn to control it in order to free yourself from it. But you shouldn't over-evaluate it or spend too much time on it either. As Vibrationisreality says, "normal" people won't hear the difference between compressor or reverb A and compressor or reverb B. I myself often don't hear the difference even when I listen closely. It worried me for a while and then I put things into perspective.
But the evaluation of a creation also includes a purely artistic dimension, completely subjective and completely variable! One day you love what you did, the next day you think it sucks and three days later you say to yourself that it's not so bad after all. It depends on your state of mind when you listen, if your day went well or not, if you slept well or not...
Listen to your music a few weeks or months after creating it. There may be technical flaws, but if you like the artistic aspect, if this music continues to create an emotion in you, then it's good!
I recommend you watch this very well done video on doubt:

 

[NekujaK]

Never being satisfied with our work is a common affliction that plagues all artists. If it's truly making you miserable and is something you can't live with, here are some steps you can take:

CRITIQUE: Post some of your music in the Members Compositions and ask for opinions and suggestions for improvement. We are usually too close to our own work to evaluate it objectively. External opinions can help point out the critical areas for improvement, as well as calling out things that are actually working well.

IDENTIFY ACTUAL PROBLEM AREAS: Creating music on our own, especially orchestral music, requires us to perform a variety of tasks that traditionally were handled by people who specialized in these tasks. It's helpful to identify which parts of the "production chain" are causing you the most dissatisfaction and address those areas. Roughly speaking, it can be broken down into composition, orchestration, and mixing.

• Composition: Are you unhappy with your musical ideas? Is it difficult to come up with melodies and motifs? Are you having trouble finishing pieces? Do you feel lost after you establish your initial ideas?
• Orchestration: Do your orchestral arrangements sound clunky, unimaginative, or fake? Do all your pieces have the same generic orchestral sound? Are your orchestrations not exciting and interesting enough?
• Mixing: Do your final recordings lack a professional sound? Do your mixes sound muddy and imbalanced?

EDUCATION: To remedy any of the above problem areas, consider enrolling in some online classes, or at least watch some good YouTube tutorials. Even just a little bit of knowledge can result in some noticeable improvement right away, but true meaningful change usually requires time and lots of practice, so just keep at it and don't give up, and keep soaking up more knowledge as you go.

TIME AND PERSPECTIVE: I usually hate everything I create, and sometimes I hate a piece so much, that I abandon it and move on. Then maybe a year later, I might stumble onto it and give it a listen, and much to my surprise, it's actually not that bad. Often when we're working on a piece, we have an idealized sound in our head that we're trying to achieve, but for whatever reason, it doesn't manifest, so we think the piece is a failure. But listening later, without any expectations, we're able to hear the piece for what it is and realize it's actually not that bad at all.

DON'T FORCE IT: Musical compositions tend to go where they want. If we try to impose our will and attempt to force the music in a particular direction, the results are often disappointing and we just end up frustrated. Relax and let the music lead the way. The results won't always be what you intended, but the process of composing will be more satisfying, and you'll end up with pieces that may be surprisingly pleasing.

Hope some of this is helpful.

 

[James Brecknell]

I think it's possible to be satisfied, and not to be always second guessing. But what I notice for myself is that I'm more likely to end up satisfied if I do the following:

1. If I like something I come up with, go with it quickly.
2. Do big-picture stuff first - the structure, chords, and notes of the whole piece.
3. Refine later - experiment with swapping out instruments, expanding or varying the arrangement, work on refining articulation use, mixing etc.

The more I get to refining stuff too soon, the more likely the following will happen:

1. I'll enjoy the production quality too much to stop listening and get on with the work.
2. The small done part will become the defining character of the piece, making later additions seem out of character.
3. I'll never finish the piece.

If I don't get this backwards, it tends to start off enjoyable and get more enjoyable as I go. This may not be the best advice for everyone, but I find it works for me when I do it.

 

[James Brecknell]

...

It depends on your state of mind when you listen, if your day went well or not, if you slept well or not...

Yes! Sometimes when I'm super tired I've felt most music sounds worse.

 

[Clearstone]

I think it's possible to be satisfied, and not to be always second guessing. But what I notice for myself is that I'm more likely to end up satisfied if I do the following:

1. If I like something I come up with, go with it quickly.
2. Do big-picture stuff first - the structure, chords, and notes of the whole piece.
3. Refine later - experiment with swapping out instruments, expanding or varying the arrangement, work on refining articulation use, mixing etc.

The more I get to refining stuff too soon, the more likely the following will happen:

1. I'll enjoy the production quality too much to stop listening and get on with the work.
2. The small done part will become the defining character of the piece, making later additions seem out of character.
3. I'll never finish the piece.

If I don't get this backwards, it tends to start off enjoyable and get more enjoyable as I go. This may not be the best advice for everyone, but I find it works for me when I do it.

This is exactly what the best creative writers suggest doing as well. Start with the big picture: narrative, plot, characters (protagonist/antagonist etc). Then, they write non-stop in large segments with zero focus on grammar or fine details. This allows the creative side of the brain to flow unencumbered and uninterrupted. Great things happen and characters develop naturally and in suprising ways because of this.

You can focus on refining and tuning your creative works when it is time for that, but if you focus on all the details from the start, you will increase the timeline of a finished project and stifle the creative spark.

 

[fawn]

I actually didn't expect such a good response, and I'm happy with all of your answers. I really appreciated them and will make good use of all those great suggestions. I used to think it was more of a personal thing than such a common experience among composers. I think that most of this comes from when, some years ago, I made the leap from 'making music'—doing generic stuff with a lot of passion—to 'orchestral music,' learning how strict the rules are in this case. I feel like I first need to learn everything before letting myself be completely driven only by passion. I want to be able to do everything in the most correct way possible, but I also feel that this process is strange to me because I come from different genres—pure improvisation most of the time—and most of the things I've done were for myself. Now I feel like I'm doing both things, and the last track I've done for a client was like this. I experimented with a lot of stuff, going in the opposite direction of what he wanted, and now I have to start again. I need to be more focused, learn how to avoid stress, and have a better approach in general to being a music composer.

 

[HCMarkus]

One of the best parts about being a composer/producer is that you develop the ability to listen inside a piece to hear and analyze the components that, together, result in music.

One of the worst parts about being a composer/producer is that you develop the ability to listen inside a piece to hear and analyze the components that, together, result in music.

I experimented with a lot of stuff, going in the opposite direction of what he wanted,

It is hard to go against one's personal musical grain, but have courage... you might be able to fix it in the mix. (haha!) Better yet, it might come together in a way you never expected and lead you to fresh musical territory that will result in personal growth.

 

[Clearstone]

I also feel that this process is strange to me because I come from different genres—pure improvisation most of the time—and most of the things I've done were for myself. Now I feel like I'm doing both things, and the last track I've done for a client was like this. I experimented with a lot of stuff, going in the opposite direction of what he wanted, and now I have to start again. I need to be more focused, learn how to avoid stress, and have a better approach in general to being a music composer.

This was me, and it still is me to a degree. If I'm only playing for myself, then I'll choose improvising and just enjoying every moment of it. However, the moment a paying client is tappin that phone looking for their finished product, it needs to be in the style that they are paying for.

Structure is wonderful thing for more improvisational types when working for other people. It definitely helps keep you on the correct path. I highly suggest following these tips from James with the "big-picture" being what the client is asking you to produce.

1. If I like something I come up with, go with it quickly.
2. Do big-picture stuff first - the structure, chords, and notes of the whole piece.
3. Refine later - experiment with swapping out instruments, expanding or varying the arrangement, work on refining articulation use, mixing etc.

You'll get the hang of it, and you will still be able to improvise as you are composing within a predetermined structure you've laid out for yourself to fit the needs of the client. I improvise during step #3 to add flavor and bring out more variety and soul. Improvisation is a huge assest, but it has to be controlled or time gets wasted, as you've found out.

 

[Onemandown]

I mean, feeling proud and happy in general. Not second-guessing everything you create or listening to it again and thinking it's shit and full of flaws.

I don't know, it's probably due to my low self-esteem, other than the fact that I'm still learning how to make orchestral soundtracks (withouit a formal training). I'm always kind of frustrated. I know I'm learning a ton of stuff each day and week, and I'm improving with every new piece I make, but I also feel stressed a lot of the time.

The problem is I don't have enough libraries!

 

[Maciek Chrobak]

The problem is I don't have enough libraries!

Don't worry, it also comes with time, you have to be patient

 

[Niah2]

Not being fully contempt or satisfied with our art is what keeps us going with a desire to always make music. Don't see it as a negative thing but actually a positive one as long as if doesn't stifle your production and love of music.

I am very happy and proud of my work which has always survived my most brutal scrutinous. But the music I am most proud of is the one I am making at the moment always. And this repeats but I think it comes with age.

It takes time but also work on the psychological struggles of creativity not just technical ones.

 

[Louie]

There is some excellent advice in this thread. I'll just throw in my .02 as I've been reflecting on this a lot lately.

It's tricky. When composing, there is time to reflect, re-consider, and decisions don't have to be made literally in an instant like improvising. That is the beauty, and curse of it. Because the slippery slope is second guessing and procrastination. But there is a distinction between frustrating/painful self-doubt and second guessing, versus constructive criticism/evaluation/quality control. I'm learning to compartmentalize and save deliberate criticism for the evaluation stage, but not during the creation or especially not during the performance stage in the process. During a performance, second guessing is just poison. There is no time, for one, and it just sucks the energy and confidence out of a performance and is hard on an audience, clients, and________.

What if we take what works for performance and apply that to composition as well? As much that is transferrable--leaving the evaluation/criticism part for later? I think that is why walking away from a piece and re-visiting later is so tried and true, because it separates the creative mind from the critical or evaluative brain, or gives the creative mindset time to reset for the critical listening brain at a healthy distance.

In the real world of course, different stages can be happening all at once to hit deadlines, or happening in waves, and changes made up to the very last instant before performance or recording, and even during performance or recording. But like the others said, at least if you have a working procedure as a guide, you have something to remind you of where you are at in the process at any given moment to help keep perspective and switch gears when needed.

Edit: To actually answer the thread title: "Is there a point where you'll become happy with your music?" I would say yes and no. Yes in that I'm happy with constantly improving, learning new stuff, and happy with music as an artistic medium. It's satisfying when I finish something that comes out nice. But I'm never satisfied in the sense of, "I know all I need to know, and just keep doing that"--no way! There is always something I can hear in my head that is beyond what I can currently put on paper. Trying to constantly bridge that gap.

Check out this interview of John Debney, you might be surprised what he had to say from 2:45, very insightful and on point, well worth a watch.

 

[Clearstone]

There is some excellent advice in this thread. I'll just throw in my .02 as I've been reflecting on this a lot lately.

It's tricky. When composing, there is time to reflect, re-consider, and decisions don't have to be made literally in an instant like improvising. That is the beauty, and curse of it. Because the slippery slope is second guessing and procrastination. But there is a distinction between frustrating/painful self-doubt and second guessing, versus constructive criticism/evaluation/quality control. I'm learning to compartmentalize and save deliberate criticism for the evaluation stage, but not during the creation or especially not during the performance stage in the process. During a performance, second guessing is just poison. There is no time, for one, and it just sucks the energy and confidence out of a performance and is hard on an audience, clients, and________.

What if we take what works for performance and apply that to composition as well? As much that is transferrable--leaving the evaluation/criticism part for later? I think that is why walking away from a piece and re-visiting later is so tried and true, because it separates the creative mind from the critical or evaluative brain, or gives the creative mindset time to reset for the critical listening brain at a healthy distance.

In the real world of course, different stages can be happening all at once to hit deadlines, or happening in waves, and changes made up to the very last instant before performance or recording, and even during performance or recording. But like the others said, at least if you have a working procedure as a guide, you have something to remind you of where you are at in the process at any given moment to help keep perspective and switch gears when needed.

Edit: To actually answer the thread title: "Is there a point where you'll become happy with your music?" I would say yes and no. Yes in that I'm happy with constantly improving, learning new stuff, and happy with music as an artistic medium. It's satisfying when I finish something that comes out nice. But I'm never satisfied in the sense of, "I know all I need to know, and just keep doing that"--no way! There is always something I can hear in my head that is beyond what I can currently put on paper. Trying to constantly bridge that gap.

Check out this interview of John Debney, you might be surprised what he had to say from 2:45, very insightful and on point, well worth a watch.

That video answers the thread title pefectly for me. Thank you for sharing. I believe it's important to have a growth mindset in life. Who we are tomorrow can be better than who we are today both musically and in character, wisdom, you name it. We are never complete, and it's more about our efforts over the end result. Not being satisfied in who we are currently is what leads to constantly working to become better, and in that process, we will continue to surpass our previous selves. I will argue that there is no mastering music. There is always more to learn, and if we give our best efforts at the work in front of us to improve, that's where we should place our satisfaction.

 

[Onemandown]

Don't worry, it also comes with time, you have to be patient

So, what you're saying is I should buy more stuff?...Yeah, I think that's what you're saying. Good advice, thanks!

 

[Composery]

I mean, feeling proud and happy in general. Not second-guessing everything you create or listening to it again and thinking it's shit and full of flaws.

I don't know, it's probably due to my low self-esteem, other than the fact that I'm still learning how to make orchestral soundtracks (withouit a formal training). I'm always kind of frustrated. I know I'm learning a ton of stuff each day and week, and I'm improving with every new piece I make, but I also feel stressed a lot of the time.

It's a matter of education, skill, and growing old enough. Education, so you don't need others to know what you're doing; skill, so you've already made all the mistakes once; and further life experience, so you've come to know yourself. Additionally, taking distance is important. If you work on a composition for too long, you start convincing yourself of all sorts of things. But the next day, you wonder how you could have been so foolish. I don't work on a composition for longer than two, sometimes three hours. You have to keep your ears fresh and try to hear your music as the audience will hear it.

Experience and age are truly significant. I'll never forget the day my professor, a composer with a résumé longer than a Wagner opera and who was sixty at the time, casually dropped this bombshell: 'You know what, guys? I think I'm finally starting to understand this whole music thing!'

 

[KevinP_]

Don't try to get it perfect. You won't. Take wharever you learn from the current project and apply it to the next one. Let the current one go.