I7 6700k Slave Machine Sample Streaming Benchmarks

[Jackles]

The most demanding string libraries really seem to "like" fairly high CPU speed, 4.0 GHz or higher. I use quite a bit of Spitfire and Hollywood string patches, some with multiple mic positions, and for that a high CPU has helped noticeably, compared with the 3.0 range of my previous string computer.

I'm afraid I don't have as much detail as Richard on numbers of voices, but the gist is that a fairly complex bunch of string writing was straining at the edge on the older computer, fast though it was. By contrast, I have yet to come up with anything on the new one that it can't accommodate.

Could you tell us what is that machin that could accommodate with anything ? I'm looking for the right parts for a new computer, and I would like no to make the same mistakes I've made in the past. I run constantly in the complexe strings parts scenario.

 

[JohnG]

Hi Jackles,

I also love strings and keep multiple libraries loaded. However, my computer is far from "the latest" so I wouldn't ape it. I'd look for chimuelo's posts on the forum here -- he's perhaps the most intense researcher about all this.

My specs:
Windows 10
32 GB RAM
4.0 GHz i7 CPU
PCIe card SSD array (hardware RAID) for most libraries
SSDs for other libraries
buffer on RME card is 512 (I tried and tried to get this down to 256 but never managed it -- maybe you can with a more powerful CPU).

I also went through the operating system and BIOS and turned off a ton of functions that I don't need. While inherently risky -- don't do this if you don't know what you are doing -- it made a big difference in performance.

Here's the link to the discussion here about "tuning" Windows 10: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/windows-10-settings-stuff-you-can-turn-off-for-music.49446/

 

[Vin]

Could you tell us what is that machin that could accommodate with anything ? I'm looking for the right parts for a new computer, and I would like no to make the same mistakes I've made in the past. I run constantly in the complexe strings parts scenario.

What's your budget?

 

[Jackles]

What's your budget?

Around $2000.

 

[Jackles]

Hi Jackles,

I also love strings and keep multiple libraries loaded. However, my computer is far from "the latest" so I wouldn't ape it. I'd look for chimuelo's posts on the forum here -- he's perhaps the most intense researcher about all this.

My specs:
Windows 10
32 GB RAM
4.0 GHz i7 CPU
PCIe card SSD array (hardware RAID) for most libraries
SSDs for other libraries
buffer on RME card is 512 (I tried and tried to get this down to 256 but never managed it -- maybe you can with a more powerful CPU).

I also went through the operating system and BIOS and turned off a ton of functions that I don't need. While inherently risky -- don't do this if you don't know what you are doing -- it made a big difference in performance.

Here's the link to the discussion here about "tuning" Windows 10: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/windows-10-settings-stuff-you-can-turn-off-for-music.49446/

Thanks, any information I can gather is good to take. I previously purchased a very expensive and particularly inappropriate computer for sample music, I really don't want to go down that road again. So now I'm extra careful.

My current template takes more than 32Go of RAM (I have 126 but I also have 2 xeon processors of 1.8Ghz each, so nothing powerful enough to take advantage of all that RAM). So from what I'm seeing around here, maybe my template is a little bit too much for someone not being Hans Zimmer or Tom Holkenborg...

 

[JohnG]

another member, GSilbers, has 128 GB on a single machine and it's working for him. My 32 GB machine is only for strings.

 

[Vin]

Around $2000.

You can build a kick-ass PC for that money.

My first choice would be something like this:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7MhgLD

High-end, cold, all-SSD and completely silent machine. You can add 64 GB of RAM more, but I think it's would be overkill since with SSDs you can lower your preload buffer, at least in Kontakt.

I have a single machine with 5820K OC'd @4.4 GHz, working with lots of plugins and samples in real time and it rarely goes north of 50-60%. No clicks, no pops.

You can upgrade later to Broadwell-E CPUs (like that i7-6950X behemoth which now goes for ~$1700) when the prices go down.

If you want 6700K, then your limit for RAM is going to be 64 GB and I'd get something like this:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Xx3tJV

But I prefer 2011-v3 to 1151, 1151 is only better in single core performance.

 

[EvilDragon]

1151 is only better in single core performance

Which is quite important for a lot of plugins - Reaktor, Falcon, etc...

 

[Jackles]

another member, GSilbers, has 128 GB on a single machine and it's working for him. My 32 GB machine is only for strings.

Wow ... Ok, 32Go of strings ! You do love strings don't you ? XD
I feel better already. Although, I'm starting to realize that, if I want to use the template that I build, I have to go with slave machines. And this is something I wasn't thinking about until now.

How many slave machines do you work with ?

You can build a kick-ass PC for that money.

My first choice would be something like this:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7MhgLD

High-end, cold, all-SSD and completely silent machine. You can add 64 GB of RAM more, but I think it's would be overkill since with SSDs you can lower your preload buffer, at least in Kontakt.

I have a single machine with 5820K OC'd @4.4 GHz, working with lots of plugins and samples in real time and it rarely goes north of 50-60%. No clicks, no pops.

You can upgrade later to Broadwell-E CPUs (like that i7-6950X behemoth which now goes for ~$1700) when the prices go down.

If you want 6700K, then your limit for RAM is going to be 64 GB and I'd get something like this:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Xx3tJV

But I prefer 2011-v3 to 1151, 1151 is only better in single core performance.

Wow, thanks a lot for this.
I was pretty much aiming in that direction. Especially for the 6700K. Now I know I don't need more than 48Go of RAM, so the limitation doesn't bother me.
Thanks again !

 

[JohnG]

How many slave machines do you work with ?

I use four but if they were up to date, maxed out machines I probably could do it with fewer; I just can't face reconfiguring everything. And besides I like to have plenty of extra room on them so that I can add libraries in a hurry.

 

[JohnG]

I'd definitely get a 4.0GHz CPU, for what it's worth.

 

[TintoL]

Thank you all for your time researching all this. I wanted to ask if someone could please tell me how can you check voice count in Cubase and kontatk?

Also Richard, I wanted to ask you, when you said:

I got one of the Samsumg 950 Pro NVME drives and tested it out. I saw some improvement at the lowest buffer setting (96+96) but the rest were a wash in terms of streaming. The NVME drive did drop load times by about 15%, though.
rgames

Did you mean that comparing your resaults with a 2.5 sata ssd drive the improovements where only 15 percent compared to the M.2? Because that will suprised me.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jackles]

I use four but if they were up to date, maxed out machines I probably could do it with fewer; I just can't face reconfiguring everything. And besides I like to have plenty of extra room on them so that I can add libraries in a hurry.

I would love to ask you how you set it up, but that's a bit too much OT I suppose. Do you mind if I ask you this in PM ?

 

[JohnG]

I would love to ask you how you set it up

I use hardware but if I were starting over I'd use VE Pro to get going.

Hardware has the advantage that you can add as many slave computers as you want and arguably other advantages as well, but VE Pro is much less expensive and, I would guess, better for where you appear to be with a likely 2-3 computer setup.

 

[rgames]

Did you mean that comparing your resaults with a 2.5 sata ssd drive the improovements where only 15 percent compared to the M.2? Because that will suprised me.

That's correct - there was a little improvement in voice count but only at the lowest buffer setting (96+96). Overall there's really no difference for streaming voice count. The 15% improvement was on the load times.

That's consistent with what I've seen in the past - I've had SSDs that bench between 400 and 550 MB/s sequential read and they performed basically the same in terms of streaming. The NVME drive benches at over 2000 MB/s sequential read but it performs about the same, as well. So the bottleneck no longer appears to be the read speeds. The big jump was from HDDs to SSDs but since then, meh...

As for how to check voice counts - there's a readout at the top of each Kontakt instance, directly above the memory usage. Each Kontakt instance has its own voice count so if you have multiple instances open then you need to add them up to get total voice count. It's hard to read sometimes so it helps to take a video of it while playing back a track. Then move slowly through the video and find the max. In PLAY you go to the "Settings" page and look under the "Streaming" tab - there's a readout there. With PLAY it's tricky, though, because the readout updates slowly and often misses the peak voice usage, so you have to play back a high-voice-count section a bunch of times (maybe 10) and note the maximum. In VSL there's a readout just above the keyboard when you have the advanced view open. For PLAY and VSL the readouts are for all instances, so you don't need to add up individual instances like you do for Kontakt.

rgames

 

[rgames]

I use hardware but if I were starting over I'd use VE Pro to get going.

Have you ever tried VE Pro over ethernet with your setup? I found a pretty significant drop in latency (512 to 128 if I recall) when I switched from audio hardware to ethernet. How low you can go will depend, of course, on what else is in your master project.

One thing I didn't mention in my original post is that I was running with all of those libraries connected in my full template. So the master machine had 20-30 plug-ins, four IR reverbs, a bunch of group channels, etc. The raw power of the slave is probably higher than what's shown in the numbers but I wanted to give an idea of performance as part of a typical setup. My desktop runs at 128+128 and my laptop runs at 256+256 with my full template (about 375 MIDI tracks and another 140 or so audio tracks for VE Pro audio returns, group tracks, FX tracks, etc.).

rgames

 

[JohnG]

Have you ever tried VE Pro over ethernet with your setup?

If I could reduce the buffer to 128 I would fly to your studio and give you a bag of gold. Or at least potato chips or licorice or something Very Valuable.

I read a while ago that four slaves plus a DAW was too much for VE Pro, plus my audio path is idiosyncratic so I don't know if it would work:

Midi path: DAW => slave computers
Audio path: DAW+slave_computers => another Mac running Pro Tools (via PT interfaces)

 

[rgames]

Yeah - I could see that. I've never had more than two slaves and going into a Pro Tools rig might be better with dedicated audio.

 

[JohnG]

well, thanks Richard. I appreciate it. Maybe my next iteration I'll bag PT, but it's a tough call. I'm really used to it, all my engineers use it, and that zero latency thing is tough to emulate. There's a way to do the latter in Digital Performer but I've never gotten around to it.

 

[TintoL]

Thanks Richard. I am surprised the improvement is so small. And the CPU can not be the bottleneck. It has to be something in the qpi. But apparently the qpi speed should be around 25 GB per sec. So what is it....? Who knows.

in practice, the point to me is that it is more cost efficient and pragmatic to stick to sata 2.5 ssd.

Thanks for explaining to me the voice count.