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How reliable is REAPER for MIDI work?

O

Orlu

Active Member
Recently I've been playing around with REAPER 7 and for the most part I'm absolutely smitten by it. The only thing holding me back right now from making the switch from Cubase are concerns with how reliable the DAW is when it comes to serious MIDI and MIDI orchestration work.

For example, today I stumbled upon a problem where in a fairly small to medium sized project (around 30-40 instrument tracks) the MIDI editor suddenly started taking 3-4 seconds to open up a simple midi item, which is an absolute workflow killer. From searching the web I found that this seems to be a fairly common problem for years that never was addressed (and apparently the wait times can get much worse than what I experienced).

Or problems with the GUI starting to slow down more and more with rising track counts and CPU usage (nothing I hate more than a lagging GUI). I haven't experienced this in my own test projects yet, but I haven't done any 'serious' work so far. I did however experience it when doing some stress testing, the GUI really started to bog down when CPU usage started rising.

On top of that the fact that the two devs are supposedly people who don't even really use MIDI themselves that much, which makes me question if problems like these will ever be fixed?

So to the power users out there, do you regularly run into issues like these? Any other problems and workflow killers that I'm unaware of right now? Or are things mostly dandy for you? Anyone who had to stop using REAPER because of these kind of problems?

FWIW I have no plans on running a template, I would always start with just my reverbs and busses loaded and do the rest with Track Templates (created some really nifty scripts for hooking up all the sends with just the press of a button).

Thanks!
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As much as it gets denied everywhere except the Cockos forums, there is stuff like this sprinkled all throughout the DAW. In some ways that’s no different than any other DAW. In my opinion although people always talk about how “stable” it is, it honestly doesn’t feel like they fix bugs any faster or break things any less than Steinberg, Presonus, or Apple. Add in the fact that a MIDI workflow comparable to Cubase or Logic requires a lot of homebrew scripts and things can get a little weird sometimes.

undo bug - Cockos Incorporated Forums

undo bug REAPER Bug Reports
forum.cockos.com

It also doesn’t seem to be a popular testing platform for third party developers either, which can be frustrating.
 
sunbrother said:
requires a lot of homebrew scripts
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That's another (though smaller) concern for me. For example the fact that REAPER midi editing relies so much on the scripts by Julian Sader, but he has kind of gone missing and you never know when these scripts might break without anyone around to fix them.
 
Reaper is an audio tracker with Midi features bolted on much later to keep up with the big boys. There are plenty of other DAWs like Reaper that don't excel with Midi too. Cubase or Logic are your best bets for deep Midi functionality, all built in so you don't have to faff around with custom script nonsense.
 
joebaggan said:
Reaper is an audio tracker with Midi features bolted on much later to keep up with the big boys. There are plenty of other DAWs like Reaper that don't excel with Midi too. Cubase or Logic are your best bets for deep Midi functionality, all built in so you don't have to faff around with custom script nonsense.
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Actually, in terms of functionality I feel that Reaper is much better than Cubase. Haven't found a single thing I can do in Cubase that I can't in R7 (though by using scripts of course, which I personally don't mind), but there are many things where Reaper excels over Cubase (like being able to see and edit CC's and velocity over multiple tracks at once, arpeggiating notes with a simple mouse modifier, ...).

I guess I'm more concerned about the general stability of the program in MIDI heavy projects. Cubase has been an absolute rock in that regard for me. Everything is still snappy and working perfectly even with high CPU load and hundreds of tracks.
 
Orlu said:
Actually, in terms of functionality I feel that Reaper is much better than Cubase. Haven't found a single thing I can do in Cubase that I can't in R7 (though by using scripts of course, which I personally don't mind), but there are many things where Reaper excels over Cubase (like being able to see and edit CC's and velocity over multiple tracks at once, arpeggiating notes with a simple mouse modifier, ...).

I guess I'm more concerned about the general stability of the program in MIDI heavy projects. Cubase has been an absolute rock in that regard for me. Everything is still snappy and working perfectly even with high CPU load and hundreds of tracks.
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Would you able to share which scripts are essential midi workflow in reaper ? I'm interested in the daw but I get headache whenever I try to find scripts install them etc
 
REAPACK is the thing you want to install. It's a package manager, similar to the ones used in Linux.
There you can filter by author, pretty much everything Julian Sader is essential. Foremost, the Multi Tool, which lets you edit CC data and also automation data.
 
Yes, Julian Sader's Multi Tool is the only one I'd call 'essential'. I've also written some custom scripts (for example to solo all visible items in the MIDI editor, a feature I missed from Cubase), but that's mostly for my personal way of working

I'd just install Reapack as @Stevie suggested and whenever you're missing some functionality, you can search for it in there and there's a good chance you'll find a script for it (and then it's just a matter of pressing a button to install it).
 
Over time, I also created a bunch of Cubase inspired scripts, like quantize that works from the arrange and MIDI Editor. Same for nudge notes, transpose, add +12/-12, etc... They are also available on Reapack and prefixed with sr_
 
joebaggan said:
Reaper is an audio tracker with Midi features bolted on much later to keep up with the big boys. There are plenty of other DAWs like Reaper that don't excel with Midi too. Cubase or Logic are your best bets for deep Midi functionality, all built in so you don't have to faff around with custom script nonsense.
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I'm sorry but this is just silly. I use Reaper daily for midi with large track counts and it is absolutely stable and very deep. The custom scripts option isn't scary and midi isn't 'bolted on'. Custom scripts are simply utilities that other people have written that make the software work the way you wish it did. The process for me is, 'hmm, I wish there was a way Reaper would let me do XYZ, let me do a quick Google. Oh, there it is, click a button, boom. done. Move on' Don't want to install scripts? don't. Vanilla Reaper will do 90% of what you want. I didn't install my first add-on for 5 years.

There's this myth that Reaper users are the Linux hackers of the DAW world and I can assure you, I'm as far from that as can be. I simply need a fast powerful tool that lets me work how I like.

Serious orchestral work in Reaper? go look at https://www.orchestraltemplateforreaper.com/. Reaper handles hundreds and hundreds of midi tracks easily.

I'm no fan boy. Use what you want but these sweeping generalizations don't add anything useful.
 
It's true, that the MIDI Editor is very basic and unfortunately, none of the devs seem to use MIDI.
This is not exactly fostering a wealth of new MIDI features. However, pretty much anything can be coded and added in terms of MIDI features. So, I would say REAPER is way above everything that doesn't have an API.
 
Also, what do you mean by “reliable” Orlu? During my years using REAPER, I don’t recall experiencing MIDI jitter, inaccuracy, dropped notes, or things like that. GUI lag like what you mentioned definitely sounds familiar. Mercurial zoom behavior sounds familiar too, but I’ve seen it mentioned in the changelog a few times so perhaps it’s fixed.

I do recall REAPER (and specifically Flush FX) had some possible bugs with what it sent over external midi ports and to plugins when it stops. But that could have been a) a missing feature or b) a bug they fixed. When they have no defined QA process it’s difficult to know.

I do like the DAW and would love to use it more. My MIDI-related reasons for not are:

- a reliance on custom scripts that sometimes don’t work well with each other and require an amount of upkeep

- there were many aspects of the midi/VI sequencing workflow that had been solved a very long time ago in DAWs like Logic and Cubase and it’s just hard to beat that. Not all of them are able to scripted around. This applies to more DAWs than REAPER.

- it has bugs and broken things just like any other DAW, which can be a little more annoying when so much of its functionality is DIY.
 
I've read time and time again about all these missing MIDI features that require people to install dozens or hundreds of scripts or even write those themselves. But somehow there's rarely given any concrete examples. I'm working in Reaper for years, very heavily in the MIDI editor - and apart from a few scripts I indeed wrote myself for very specific workflows, and one script that I need because Reaper doesn't have an in-built option, I found nothing missing for me. The only script that I downloaded because Reaper doesn't have such thing internally is Reaticulate for articulation maps. And from what I've seen from other DAWs it is a really good one. So what is it exactly that apparently all these other DAWs have that are missing in Reaper?

On the stability: I haven't witnessed any delays in opening the MIDI editor. Except if it is currently auto-saving the project - but I guess that's normal. And I don't think Reaper crashed on me a single time over the last year or two. No performance issues either. Naturally, with different hardware/software combos, other people might have a different experience.

Btw, the Midi Editor is nothing that they 'bolted on' as an afterthought. Reaper had Midi capabilities since version 0.x...
 
sunbrother said:
it honestly doesn’t feel like they fix bugs any faster or break things any less than Steinberg, Presonus, or Apple.
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Going to have to push back on this. Looking at release notes, Cubase has gotten two updates in 2023. Reaper has...5, in the last month? All filled with bug fixes and new features. You can talk directly to the people writing the code, any day of the week. With what other company is that possible?

That's not to say it's a reason to use Reaper, but in terms of fixes/communication they're one of a kind.
hsindermann said:
Btw, the Midi Editor is nothing that they 'bolted on' as an afterthought. Reaper had Midi capabilities since version 0.x...
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I think it's because the MIDI Editor is technically a "plugin" in the broader Reaper container. Not sure that there's anything concrete that it affects performance.

Anyway to answer your question- yeah when the projects get bigger there is some GUI lag. I attribute it mostly to running at way-too-low buffer sizes. I don't have the MIDI editor opening issue though. Do you have one-editor-per-project set? I think the default is to have one per item, which is definitely less efficient.
 
fakemaxwell said:
Reaper has...5, in the last month? All filled with bug fixes and new features.
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Other DAWs do this stuff internally with beta versions and release candidates.

In REAPER it is all public and open, sure, but in terms of the nuts and bolts it doesn’t seem any different than what was going on behind the scenes at other DAWs to me.

Maybe there’s some peace of mind of being able to publicly see it happen, I don’t know… That doesn’t mean pointing out a thing will fix it though. That bug I linked earlier took 10 years to get fixed. All DAWs have stuff like that, I’m just saying don’t go to REAPER based on seeing a public pre-release forum and thinking it’s some kind of elixir.

As for missing MIDI features and workflows, one could go through the Logic or Cubase reference manual and count many things have no native action in REAPER. That means it’ll require a script or adopting a workflow of a likely higher number of steps. If those things aren’t important to you, fair enough. They were for me though. REAPER’s still great. Pro Tools is great too, but if I needed to use a Logical Editor or MIDI Transform I wouldn’t open its MIDI editor.
 
fakemaxwell said:
I think it's because the MIDI Editor is technically a "plugin" in the broader Reaper container. Not sure that there's anything concrete that it affects performance.
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You mean because it comes in its own screen? For me that's actually a pro, because I have it open on my second screen maximized, given me a lot more screenspace to work with it
 
Orlu said:
Recently I've been playing around with REAPER 7 and for the most part I'm absolutely smitten by it. The only thing holding me back right now from making the switch from Cubase are concerns with how reliable the DAW is when it comes to serious MIDI and MIDI orchestration work.

Thanks!
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If it helps, I switched over from Cubase last year and now work full time in Reaper (film comp, orchestration & MIDI programming). So it's definitely viable.

Stevie said:
It's true, that the MIDI Editor is very basic and unfortunately, none of the devs seem to use MIDI.
This is not exactly fostering a wealth of new MIDI features. However, pretty much anything can be coded and added in terms of MIDI features. So, I would say REAPER is way above everything that doesn't have an API.
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This is definitely important to bear in mind. It's a weird one - technically speaking I can do way more advanced stuff in it than I can in Cubase because of the API, but because the MIDI editor doesn't get much love from the devs, it can still be frustrating to use.

Orlu said:
On top of that the fact that the two devs are supposedly people who don't even really use MIDI themselves that much, which makes me question if problems like these will ever be fixed?
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Please do add your voice to the MIDI related feature requests on the forums if you haven't already!
 
I've been (power) using midi in Reaper since 2007 and everything is fine and dandy and it's absolutely good enough to make it work.
I do have to say i occasionally have the midi editor opening lag on high track count too, but not always. I've also only started noticing this year somehow. Maybe because i also had to start using Cubase and it's always snappy in comparision.

I haven't been able to find out what causes this lag but i agree it's pretty annoying.
That's really the only thing i can think of. I sure do hope they'll tackle this at some point. It's the only thing that ever lags in Reaper.

If you miss some features you can get a script or build in the feature yourself with some macro's or custom toolbars. I've pretty much cloned the look and functionality Cubase midi editor in Reaper and i ain't no wizzkid.

A thing i really miss while working on midi in Cubase is a way to select notes based on velocity (like the lowest velocities in a part).
I guess you just have to really try it and see if you can live with it, that's the only way to find out!
 
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