How often do we need a gazillion mic positions?

[Francisco Lamolda]

Who even has the resources to run a rig with 20 mics?

You can always compose using the balanced mix and then get your own mix with whatever mic that you want. If you dont have the resources, there're always some tricks with the DAW to save this situation. Like render in place or freeze track.

 

[Francisco Lamolda]

I wonder how many signals are used during typical orchestra session.

Here it's the setup of LOTR. Each circle is a mic I suppose. So you can see the Tree, Out, Ambient, some Mids and then the Timpani for a reason has a mic while the rest of the Cl mics are not represented.

 

[Getsumen]

The discussion of mics is a moot point because you just download what you want. Who cares if there are 20 mic positions. Just download your 2-5 and roll with it. Does the fact that there are more microphones somehow bother your experience?

It's also not like you're paying more for a "pro" version with 1 or 2 good useful mics and 15 junk positions. You're given them all upfront. Just download the one you want and stop worrying about it....

 

[Henning]

I found that I basically only need a decently downmixed set of close and room mics. Much more tends to distract me too much. Knowing this I actually don't buy libs with an excessive amounts of mics, anymore.

 

[Petrucci]

More mics is good for choice, but I'd prefer more articulations instead if possible with 3-6 mics. Also I love how SA have done Mixes for SSO (not for Perc unfortunately) and BBCSO - for example, I feel like I don't have to move faders at all there - and everything sounds right in place - saves so much time really!

 

[Aitcpiano]

The close, Tree, and Outrigger mics as well as mix mics is all I really use. With drier libraries such as Spitfire Studio series I simply just use the mix mics and reverb. Some of the additional mics in libraries such as BBCSO are nice to have such as the mid mics but having to many mic options can often be a distraction.

 

[Alex Cadiem]

You haven't lived until you've tried @Alex Cadiem's mix for the Berlin Series and TH Brass.

I should have asked for royalties to let you use this mics configurations... Just kidding, I really appreciate it being helpful to you!

And since I'm here, here's my two cents on the matter:

A large number of microphones not only allows you to obtain your own sound, but can also help you to better balance the different samples libraries, all in a more "natural" way (the more the sound satisfies you at the base, the better it will be). I realize that it is difficult to manage a large quantity of microphones, which is why I suggest taking the time to listen to them one by one, understand how they sound, and then experiment according to your own tastes.

As also reported by the good @Trash Panda , by experimenting with the microphones I managed to obtain not only a sound that satisfied me the most, but above all an excellent balance between the Berlin series and the THBs (which as we well know, have a beastly sound power). With that setting, I got present and detailed strings and woodwinds (without losing the "breath" of the room) that coexist perfectly with the THB sound power.

Then, on the RAM issue, let's not underestimate the wonderful "Merge" function of the @OrchestralTools SINE player. Here is an example of why, especially for those who are short of RAM, this function is ESSENTIAL:

Spoiler: Before Merge

Spoiler: After Merge

A significant difference, especially when you apply it to the remaining instruments.

In short, my advice is: download all the mics positions, study them, experiment, find your sound, merge, and then if you are short of space, simply eliminate the superfluous mics positions, problem solved!

Finally, I conclude this post by saying that, it is true that some of these mics positions could be "useless" for us, but we must always consider that if they have been included (leaving aside the discussions of marketing, profit, etc.) it is because they were probably requested! So have fun with them and be curious

 

[Trash Panda]

It's totally not because inflating the library size helps consumers justify the high cost. Definitely not that at all.

Cynicism aside, I wish more developers would offer bleed mics like those in BBCSO, AROOF/ARO and Tokyo Scoring Drums.

 

[jbuhler]

Amount of MICs = sound shaping capabilities, this and only this. But for me the biggest issue is that even if I don't need that mic I still need to pay for it. For example I'm pretty sure BBC Core with one mix mic would be to limiting for me (close should be mandatory, like VSL did with Prime), but PRO is huge overkill. But it's either or. So I got none

You almost certainly don’t want what you are imagining, a la carte pricing to every last bit of a library so you only pay for just what you think you need.

First of all managing the complexity is harder, both on your end and the developer’s.

Second, this will lead inevitably even more than is currently the case to making libraries to serve the lowest common denominator. So you’ll likely have less effective choice rather than more. And anything outside that small set of core devices and mics will be increasingly expensive on a per item basis.

The total of adding all those bits will greatly exceed the current cost of these libraries and a la carte will be even more expensive than the 30% or so mark up that OT already charges.

So you’ll likely end up with more very basic libraries on the market, with an even more limited range of core articulations and microphones, some expensive add-ons, but generally less capable libraries and fewer options overall.

 

[Mistro]

Being new to mixing, this discussion just opened up a whole new topic I didn't know I should learn about...I think. My question is, what's the difference between good mixing tricks using volume, pan, reverb etc. and choosing a mic position? For example if you have a library without the mic for ambient, can't you still achieve the desired sound through mixing techniques?

 

[InsomniaEmperor]

Being new to mixing, this discussion just opened up a whole new topic I didn't know I should learn about...I think. My question is, what's the difference between good mixing tricks using volume, pan, reverb etc. and choosing a mic position? For example if you have a library without the mic for ambient, can't you still achieve the desired sound through mixing techniques?

You might get similar results with mixing techniques.

But the key thing here is reverb can’t exactly add depth. If something is recorded with a close mic, you can’t simply add reverb to make it sound farther.

Reverb also can’t take away what is already there. If the close mic has key clicks of say contrabass clarinet, they’re much less present in an ambient mic. You can’t exactly just add reverb on a close recording to make it sound like it’s far. At best, reverb is more like make up.

Sure you can get similar results with mixing, but there’s much less “plastic surgery” involved if you prioritize mixing mic positions. Granted, I’m still not sure how I’m going to use all gazillion mics of Hans Zimmer Strings and maybe it’s excessive, but you can get a more natural sound with mic mixing than trying to perform sorcery on just a single mix.

Here’s a good video on the topic.

 

[jcrosby]

Aside from being able to place things in a stereo mix, the extra mics are for people delivering scores to be mixed in Atmos/surround, or create their own unique mix, etc... Plus, unlike SF, at least you're not stuck having to download everything then delete mics after the fact, you can simply download what you want and be done with it... TLDR; it's completely logical that this library has a ton of mics, and OT make life a hell of a lot easier than SF does!

 

[InsomniaEmperor]

Also, this highlights the need to learn to use your orchestra. There are so many details and angles to these massive orchestral libraries. Learn to use one properly before moving on to buy the next one. If I were to buy an orchestral library every BF, then I don’t think I would ever learn to use each one to its fullest effect.

Very much agree on this. The libraries have more depth than we give them credit for and it’s up to us to tap its potential instead of jumping on every new library.

More mics is good for choice, but I'd prefer more articulations instead if possible with 3-6 mics. Also I love how SA have done Mixes for SSO (not for Perc unfortunately) and BBCSO - for example, I feel like I don't have to move faders at all there - and everything sounds right in place - saves so much time really!

One thing I find kind of sad is moving away from articulations and overloading with mics instead. There’s only so much I can do if the library only has one long, one short, and one legato even if it has a gazillion mic positions cause they can’t exactly give you articulations that weren’t recorded in the first place. I might have bitten into BBC or BW Strings if they had comprehensive articulation sets.

 

[Petrucci]

Very much agree on this. The libraries have more depth than we give them credit for and it’s up to us to tap its potential instead of jumping on every new library.


One thing I find kind of sad is moving away from articulations and overloading with mics instead. There’s only so much I can do if the library only has one long, one short, and one legato even if it has a gazillion mic positions cause they can’t exactly give you articulations that weren’t recorded in the first place. I might have bitten into BBC or BW Strings if they had comprehensive articulation sets.

Actually BBC has a lot of articulations - for example, strings have quite more than regular bread n butter stuff (like 3 kinds of tremolos etc) - but not a lot of dynamic layers, also percussion is not very comprehensive there - but still BBC is an awesome package when on sale!)

 

[Niah2]

I used to think the tendency of having more and more mics in sample libraries was getting out of hand and a little insane but I think I was just rationalizing since my PC DAW couldn't handle it hahahha.

But after getting a new PC DAW I started to experiment and I am really loving playing around with all the mics sample libraries have nowadays. I don't make music with just a big film score orchestral sound aesthetic, so having many mic options allows me to get more milage out of my sample libraries to use them in several musical contexts.

 

[SimonCharlesHanna]

For me it becomes a bit annoying when the artics/features list isn't as big as it should be

"You can hear all the corners we cut from 20 different positions"

I am not being specific about any particular library mind you

 

[jbuhler]

For me it becomes a bit annoying when the artics/features list isn't as big as it should be

How big should it be?

 

[SimonCharlesHanna]

How big should it be?

would you like me to be realistic or measure against my impossibly high standards for artics?

 

[jbuhler]

would you like me to be realistic or measure against my impossibly high standards for artics?

What you think is realistic given the marketplace and that will yield enough profit to encourage companies to continue producing new libraries?

 

[InsomniaEmperor]

What you think is realistic given the marketplace and that will yield enough profit to encourage companies to continue producing new libraries?

My ideal is something like the VSL VI Series. I get so many variants of longs, shorts, and legatos and many dynamic layers but given how ridiculously expensive it used to be, it’s not a realistic measure. Modeling based would be more cost efficient.

Next would be the articulation list of the VSL Synchron Series. Nowhere as many as the VI Series but still pretty flexible and can do so many things. Unfortunately for me, I don’t dig the sound very much.

The Berlin series is a nice middle ground for me. Nowhere close to any of VSL’s offerings, but still has enough to do a lot of things. Sound is gorgeous and 5-6 mics on average is pretty good instead of just standard CTA.

What I’d find way too few is something that has only one long, one short, and one legato. Then those would have dozens of mic positions which can’t exactly give you an articulation that wasn’t there to begin with.