How important is location in this day and age?

[zigacesen]

I’m an aspiring media composer that’s still learning the ropes on the biz, I’ve got the composing part down quite well, but that alone means nothing if you’re actually trying to make a living.

Networking seems to be the way to go among other things you can try but the problem in my case is that I live in (excuse my French) bum-f*** nowhere where the media composing business might as well not even exist. (I live in Slovenia, a small country south of Austria, east of Italy).

So my question is how important is location for getting started at least and how does one network if there’s no people around to network with?

Click to read more...

 

[Vik]

I have been making music for movies produced in several other countries without having been in these countries, so location may not be so important anymore – but having connections is. Most likely, the best way to start is first of all to make some music which really represents you – and take it from there.

 

[GtrString]

It's a very broad question.

Location can make it easier to network face-to-face for sure, but if you travel a bit, it may not matter as much.

It also depends on what kind of network that will benefit you to be part of, as well as what type of personality you have. Not everyone can utilize networks, and it can even hurt your opportunities, if you have poor social skills, I believe.

It also depend on what you can bring to the network, and how much time you are ready to invest in it.

Network can be a lot of work, so it depends a lot of who you are, and what your goals are.

In other words, moving to build network has to make sense for you.

 

[zigacesen]

it seems to me like its all about who you know rather than actually how good you are, there's thousands of composers out there that can do it better than a lot of the people actually getting work just becuase they are at the right place at the right time or have connections. What a bs world

 

[Vik]

it seems to me like its all about who you know rather than actually how good you are

Guess I (partially) disagree with you here. Some examples:

My 23 year old now currently works in a company in a company which works on making Dune into a game – along with a lot of others (he's into design/art etc). One reason why he may have gotten that internship is that he has been to some game conventions – and met a few people from the company in question there. He has also worked at hard in developing his own skills.

A friend of mine, coming from a small town, ended up making music to loads of movies. We got to know each other when we were young, and kept in touch for many years - both as a friendship and because we were into the same kind of music. When he got more work than he could handle, he called me in to either be his assistant or to share work with. None of this was planned, but a result of both of us at some point going to the same summer workshop (about music, improvisation, composing etc).

In a period I was really broke, I spent a lot of time practicing Bach pieces – both because I liked it, and also – it was a good way to improve my sight reading chops. By accident, a parent of my sons friend came to pick up his son at our place, and heard my Bach playing – which led to a good amount of piano teacher income the following years.

I have many other episodes like that from my own life, but also from others: the bottom line seems to not be to cynically plan for success, but about doing stuff, going to places, hooking up with others etc all based on what one is really into.

Apparently, a lot has been written about 'the psychology of good luck. I haven't read any of it, but I guess it has to do with some kind of go-with-the-flow, or maybe rather 'go-for-it!' approach to life, people, music and everything else.

What a bs world

There's a lot of bs happening on this planet, but my feeling is that if one focuses too much on this, that approach could work against you – but good luck!

 

[zigacesen]

Guess I (partially) disagree with you here. Some examples:

My 23 year old now currently works in a company in a company which works on making Dune into a game – along with a lot of others (he's into design/art etc). One reason why he may have gotten that internship is that he has been to some game conventions – and met a few people from the company in question there. He has also worked at hard in developing his own skills.

A friend of mine, coming from a small town, ended up making music to loads of movies. We got to know each other when we were young, and kept in touch for many years - both as a friendship and because we were into the same kind of music. When he got more work than he could handle, he called me in to either be his assistant or to share work with. None of this was planned, but a result of both of us at some point going to the same summer workshop (about music, improvisation, composing etc).

None of this would be possible if they were not from the US while being lucky on top. Good for them but it's just the reality of the situation.

I will still compose music regardless of whether i choose to pursue a career in it because it is literally the only thing I enjoy besides not doing anything, but it just seems so much work, energy and time has to go in things that have nothing to do with composing music and so the output doesn't even remotely resemble the amount of input, especially when coming from a severely disadvantaged position. The perceived difference in quality of the final product of composition is barely perceptible to the average listener or director when comparing decent composers so there is no reason to seek out people not in your immediate circle. Every kid with a laptop can create a score nowadays so why would directors or people that need the music look elsewhere? And even if you get a project, most likely it's going to suck. I doubt composing for a TLC show or a bad movie is any more "soulfull" than a normal soulless job. It's even worse really, considering how much talent, practice, energy and time one must spend just to get a gig like that only for it to be some garbage.

the industry of media composition is like thousands of turtles having to get to the sea, except imagine a 100m deep ravine on the beach. And even for the few that somehow manage to get to the sea, the reward is just normal life, nothing special. Very bleak imo, only fueled by irrational "love" of music.

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

I think a positive mindset is a good starting point for reaching one’s goals in life.

 

[zigacesen]

I think a positive mindset is a good starting point for reaching one’s goals in life.

thats easy to say

 

[Vik]

None of this would be possible if they were not from the US while being lucky on top.

None of these examples were from US! And of course, you could call it plain 'luck' and claim that it's all about who you know and not how good you are – but I still think the main thing is to actually make music the way to want to to be, and... expose it. Post some links here, for instance.

I have on some occasions been a member or leader of a committee which decides which (among a huge pile of applications) will become on of the receivers of a $25.000 grant. Many of us are aware of the risk that the same, well-known or already-massively-exposed composers get these grants – and one occasion, we figured out that we have the same name on the top of our lists of potential 'winners'. So he got the 25k $, even if none of us ever have heard about him – just because the music files he had included were really good. He lived in the middle of nowhere.

If he would have been thinking that there's no reason to apply for this grant because he didn't have any connections / was not known at all, he wouldn't have received a single $!

 

[zigacesen]

I have on some occasions been a member or leader of a committee which decides which (among a huge pile of applications) will become on of the receivers of a $25.000 grant. Many of us are aware of the risk that the same, well-known or already-massively-exposed composers get these grants – and one occasion, we figured out that we have the same name on the top of our lists of potential 'winners'. So he got the 25k $, even if none of us ever have heard about him – just because the music files he had included were really good. He lived in the middle of nowhere.

Let me guess, Canada? I know im being quite negative but damn if its not soul crushing listening to some of the stories on here.

That was exactly my point, 25 grand is chump change considering the amount of input. I can get 25k just sitting at a desk for 8 hours reading e-mails (of course i dont enjoy reading emails but still). How many others have put in the same amount and got nothing? And even if the guy who won goes on to do media composing, how many ridiculously bad projects will he have to take on just to support himself financially?

It seems like we're like guys trapped on an island fighting for the one girl that's on the island and that girl is a 3/10. Or in this case its 3/10 films lol

 

[Vik]

Let me guess, Canada?

No.

You started by asking how important location is for getting started, and you already seem to have decided that this is a hopeless market – but as long as you, as you say, still will make music (important) things will take it's own course as long as you also expose that music to others. If you don't, the chances for aspiring media composers are – of course – not really good.

 

[doctoremmet]

Hans Zimmer, born in Frankfurt. As we all know basically a Hollywood suburb. Lucky he was born there really.

Ludwig Göransson, born in Linköping -well known for being THE networking hub for the entire Northern European movie industry. He had “success” written on his back right from birth, so he decided to take the easy road and become a composer.

Jan Oblak, born in Slovenia. He was bound to become Real Madrid’s goal keeper from day one. He did something cool once between the goal posts, and the local Slovenian football scout gave Madrid a call, so they thought “ah well, let’s take him then”.

Some people just have the successes thrown into their laps without any effort in this BS world.

 

[zigacesen]

No.

You started by asking how important location is for getting started, and you already seem to have decided that this is a hopeless market – but as long as you, as you say, still will make music (important) things will take it's own course as long as you also expose that music to others. If you don't, the chances for an aspiring media composers are – of course – not really good.

damn it, what country is it haha

Fair enough, but my only option for exposing my music to potential clients as you say is cold mailing pretty much

 

[doctoremmet]

damn it, what country is it haha

Fair enough, but my only option for exposing my music to potential clients as you say is cold mailing pretty much

Or move and take a shot

 

[zigacesen]

Hans Zimmer, born in Frankfurt. As we all know basically a Hollywood suburb. Lucky he was born there really.

Ludwig Göransson, born in Linköping -well known for being THE networking hub for the entire Northern European movie industry. He had “success” written on his back right from birth, so he decided to take the easy road and become a composer.

Jan Oblak, born in Slovenia. He was bound to become Real Madrid’s goal keeper from day one. He did something cool once between the goal posts, and the local Slovenian football scout gave Madrid a call, so they thought “ah well, let’s take him then”.

Some people just have the successes thrown into their laps without any effort in this BS world.

Hans Zimmer attended a boarding school that costs 100k a year, his family had money to burn, he could've become a whatever without any income and not worry about anything, not to mention that his composing career started in the UK after many hits. So really its not frankfurt but the UK, more specifically London, one of the largest musical centres in the world.

Ludwig Göransson - In 2007, he moved to Los Angeles to study at the University of Southern California Scoring for Motion Picture and Television program.[8] It was at that university that Ludwig met Ryan Coogler, for whom Ludwig composed the score for the award-winning short film Fig in 2011. (not to mention the amount of money it took to move there and pay for tuition, again from a rich family)

So we got LA and London...


Jan is not a composer

Or move and take a shot

So location is important after all

 

[doctoremmet]

So we got LA and London...

Hence:

Or move and take a shot

Nothing is ever easy really. There is luck. There is privilige. But also hard work. Plenty of examples of people who had piss poor childhoods, no breaks, but who worked for a goal and succeeded. So the narrative that people who make it “have it easy” is also BS. Which was the point I was trying to make here hehe. Not to start some Wikipedia quote-off. Cheers and best of luck to you regardless! <3

 

[zigacesen]

Hence:




Nothing is ever easy really. There is luck. There is privilige. But also hard work. Plenty of examples of people who had piss poor childhoods, no breaks, but who worked for a goal and succeeded. So the narrative that people who make it “have it easy” is also BS. Which was the point I was trying to make here hehe. Not to start some Wikipedia quote-off. Cheers and best of luck to you regardless! <3

so the answer to "How important is location in this day and age?" is: very important.

Im not saying hans and ludwig didnt work hard, its just that amount of remote composers doing any kind of cool project is pretty much zero.

 

[doctoremmet]

so the answer to "How important is location in this day and age?" is: very important.

That seems to be your conclusion, which I do share to a large extent. But you’re not looking at my other point: if you really want to, you can start locally and work your way towards international “expansion”. Instead of just reaching the preliminary conclusion - that the world is a BS place and never mind trying.

Look at Tom Holkenborg, from my home country. He started out working in music stores, and playing in (very!) local bands. He was guitarist (and drummer) of a little known band called Weekend At Waikiki, that as luck would have it also had my high school math teacher in it hehe, which is the only reason I know this.

Then he went on and founded Nerve, a little known Dutch / British industrial band. Got signed. Sold a couple of records here and there.

Went on and started Junkie XL, which initially was the name of his band, together with another Dutch musical talent - a rapper named Rudeboy. Brought out a couple of singles. Had some regional top 40 success. They played each and every festival in The Netherlands and Germany. Slaved their asses off. Maybe received some airplay outside of The Netherlands? And that was about it.

And then the Elvis estate wanted a remix. Or maybe he approached them with it. No idea. But when that happened, opportunities opened up for mister Holkenborg. At that point he had already had a heart attack, he worked that hard.

But for some reason Tom wanted to take a shot at Hollywood film composing. And with all the hard work he had put in, he STILL had to move to LA and become an intern over at Remote Control hehe.

This story is off the top of my head and may contain errors. But the gist of it is true. Tom wasn’t rich. Tom just wanted what he wanted really bad and worked hard to attain it. And even he got a “break” (luck?) when he made that Elvis remix that everyone now recognizes the JXL name from. I’ve never heard him say, I’m from the north of The Netherlands, no way I will ever encounter the right people here. I’m from there and I can assure you, there’s noone here

TL;DR I do think location is important. But in the mean time, if moving to LA of London isn’t an option (which I totally understand) maybe try and network your way into a local indie film scene, make sounds and tunes for Slovenian commercials, write songs for local bands or artists, etc. Try and find something that’ll give you some meaningful IMDB resume items - etc. Work your way up from there.

 

[zigacesen]

That seems to be your conclusion, which I do share to a large extent. But you’re not looking at my other point: if you really want to, you can start locally and work your way towards international “expansion”. Instead of just reaching the preliminary conclusion - that the world is a BS place and never mind trying.

Look at Tom Holkenborg, from my home country. He started out working in music stores, and playing in (very!) local bands. He was guitarist (and drummer) of a little known band called Weekend At Waikiki, that as luck would have it also had my high school math teacher in it hehe, which is the only reason I know this.

Then he went on and founded Nerve, a little known Dutch / British industrial band. Got signed. Sold a couple of records here and there.

Went on and started Junkie XL, which initially was the name of his band, together with another Dutch musical talent - a rapper named Rudeboy. Brought out a couple of singles. Had some regional top 40 success. They played each and every festival in The Netherlands and Germany. Slaved their asses off. Maybe received some airplay outside of The Netherlands? And that was about it.

And then the Elvis estate wanted a remix. Or maybe he approached them with it. No idea. But when that happened, opportunities opened up for mister Holkenborg. At that point he had already had a heart attack, he worked that hard.

But for some reason Tom wanted to take a shot at Hollywood film composing. And with all the hard work he had put in, he STILL had to move to LA and become an intern over at Remote Control hehe.

This story is off the top of my head and may contain errors. But the gist of it is true. Tom wasn’t rich. Tom just wanted what he wanted really bad and worked hard to attain it. And even he got a “break” (luck?) when he made that Elvis remix that everyone now recognizes the JXL name from. I’ve never heard him say, I’m from the north of The Netherlands, no way I will ever encounter the right people here. I’m from there and I can assure you, there’s noone here

TL;DR I do think location is important. But in the mean time, if moving to LA of London isn’t an option (which I totally understand) maybe try and network your way into a local indie film scene, make sounds and tunes for Slovenian commercials, write songs for local bands or artists, etc. Try and find something that’ll give you some meaningful IMDB resume items - etc. Work your way up from there.

Yeah, I appreciate the advice man, it seems what you described is the way to go, its just a bit disappointing when the reasons for even considering a career in media composing are projects that are taken by people with connections or from LA, London, etc (like Cristobal Tapia de Veer, Mac Quayle, Gustavo Santaolalla, Neal Acree, Michael McCann just to name a few that inspired me) so the kind of projects they work on seem inaccessible to someone in my position.

I mean I do have some local connections (I've worked with a producer that produced the biggest Slovenian band right now, Joker Out if you know them, hell I even perfomed with their guitarist once haha) and have some friends in the Slovenian music scene, but thats all pop music...

 

[doctoremmet]

Yeah, I appreciate the advice man, it seems what you described is the way to go, its just a bit disappointing when the reasons for even considering a career in media composing are projects that are taken by people with connections or from LA, London, etc (like Cristobal Tapia de Veer, Mac Quayle, Gustavo Santaolalla, Neal Acree, Michael McCann just to name a few that inspired me) so the kind of projects they work on seem inaccessible to someone in my position.

I get the feeling of inaccessibility. I really do. But look at it this way: there are thousands of people IN LA right now who do not have that much bigger of a “chance” than you have.