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Hollywood strings diamond Legato..tricky to play

M

Mishabou

Senior Member
Just got HS diamond and trying to get my head around the Legato patches. I checked out the tutorial on their web site.

Loaded a Celli Legato slur + port RR LT 6 patch played a 6/8 line at 76 bpm and keep getting annoying sliding notes unless i pound the crap out of the keyboard. Also the attack is way late that if i play a few 1/8 th notes in succession at the speed mentioned above, the sound is wayy behind even though the midi notes are right on.

Anyone experienced this ?
Click to read more...
 
OK just did a search and apparently the ''late'' notes are done on purpose. I still find this kind of counterproductive. Sure we should ''think'' like string players..but the reality is that most of us aren't and having to play the keyboard ahead of time or editing timing after the performance is time consuming.
 
Those patches are for very specific articulations that tend to be slow and slidey. The regular Leg Slur patches will articulate better for medium tempo and even faster. The Marc Legato will articulate greater still for faster passages.
 
The leg+port patches are set to velocity to trigger legato vs portamento. The reason you might need to pound your keyboard is that it might not be overly sensitive. The acc/marc legato patches gives a much better attack for the start of the line.
 
Are the sliding notes trigged by velocity ? According to the Nick's video only low velocities triggers sliding legato, but i seem to randomly trigger them at low and or mid velocity.
 
I stand slightly corrected. From the manual:

"Slur + Portamento: In this patch, the MIDI velocity controls the speed of the interval; the smaller the Velocity (in its range from 1 to 127), the more slowly the pitch moves from one note to the next; faster transitions use more of a slur while slower transitions are a full portamento with a very audible slide in the pitch from one note to the next."

Hence why you may need to press the keys quite hard to get rid of any audible slide.
 
3 things:

1. I generally avoid the portamento patches. Too schmaltzy for most purposes.

2. A lot of the response has to do with your keyboard controller's velocity curves.

3. Yes, you have to play a little on top of the beat and sometimes adjust the region a little forward later.
 
I always find the legato patches a little difficult. I think the key is to use them for specific moments/lines/phrases.

I like the flexibility of the normal and powerful sustain patches. Having control over vibrato makes a good difference as well. Most of the time, they are good enough, but I have some legato patches available via expression maps in cubase, when needed.

Just take some time to get used to them and try to think about what you want/need.
 
EastWest Lurker said:
3 things:

1. I generally avoid the portamento patches. Too schmaltzy for most purposes.

2. A lot of the response has to do with your keyboard controller's velocity curves.

3. Yes, you have to play a little on top of the beat and sometimes adjust the region a little forward later.
Click to expand...

This is only my second day using the HS and i have the same experience. When playing a Legato slur + Port patch, i keep triggering the Portamento for no reason, even when pounding my keys. I find the scripting of HS not user friendly at all. Spitfire responds perfectly to my playing using the same Roland A88 controller.

I also notice that if i increase CC#1 (amount of vibrato), the portamento aren't as trigger-happy. Any one notice this ?

1- Is there a way to turn on/off the Portamento via expression map ?

2- if Q1 is not possible and i only use the Legato slur patch, how can i insert Portamento, i don't see any Portamento patches

3- What patch do you suggest for melody that includes slow and fast legato ?

thx
 
Anhtu said:
This is only my second day using the HS and i have the same experience. When playing a Legato slur + Port patch, i keep triggering the Portamento for no reason, even when pounding my keys. I find the scripting of HS not user friendly at all. Spitfire responds perfectly to my playing using the same Roland A88 controller.

I also notice that if i increase CC#1 (amount of vibrato), the portamento aren't as trigger-happy. Any one notice this ?

1- Is there a way to turn on/off the Portamento via expression map ?

2- if Q1 is not possible and i only use the Legato slur patch, how can i insert Portamento, i don't see any Portamento patches

3- What patch do you suggest for melody that includes slow and fast legato ?

thx
Click to expand...

No, but with the regular legato slur patches there is a portamento script that can be toggled on/off by cc 65 I believe and those are what I use most of the time. The fact is that in most modern string writing, portamento is used sparingly as it leads to cloying sounding parts.
 
Lawson. said:
I use "Leg BC + Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni" as my legato patch. It handles pretty much anything. I'll whip up a demo real quick.
Click to expand...

Do you mind posting the midi file ? I'm just curious as exactly how you play the parts in order to not trigger the Port and how you deal with fast legato runs.

Fast legato runs are a nightmare as the ''transition time'' induced between notes creates a significant delay.

Thanks a lot for your help
 
EastWest Lurker said:
No, but with the regular legato slur patches there is a portamento script that can be toggled on/off by cc 65 I believe and those are what I use most of the time. The fact is that in most modern string writing, portamento is used sparingly as it leads to cloying sounding parts.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, good to know!

Do you use CC#1 when playing the parts live ?
 
Anhtu said:
Do you mind posting the midi file ? I'm just curious as exactly how you play the parts in order to not trigger the Port and how you deal with fast legato runs.

Fast legato runs are a nightmare as the ''transition time'' induced between notes creates a significant delay.

Thanks a lot for your help
Click to expand...

For fast legato runs, you really want the Slur Runs or Spic Runs Smooth in the Playable Rubs folder within the Effects folder IMHO.
 
If you watch Nick's Legato video, he's using the Leg BC + Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni patch and manage to pull off some very nice legato (fast and slow) lines. I assume he's playing those lines live, and if so i definitely want to figure out how he did it.
 
Anhtu said:
Do you mind posting the midi file ? I'm just curious as exactly how you play the parts in order to not trigger the Port and how you deal with fast legato runs.

Fast legato runs are a nightmare as the ''transition time'' induced between notes creates a significant delay.

Thanks a lot for your help
Click to expand...

You're welcome! I played it in at the keyboard and then tweaked everything slightly.



"Leg BC + Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni" with Main mics and QL Spaces' "Northwest Hall TS RR 2.6s".
 

Attachments

  • ET Theme HS Vln 1.mid.zip
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EastWest Lurker said:
For fast legato runs, you really want the Slur Runs or Spic Runs Smooth
Click to expand...
Jay's right, those patches are designed for fast runs. They play back faster than they record. Also, I find the stacc slur patches more responsive than the general leg patches.

In real life, as a string player myself, strings are notorious for being 'behind the beat.' It's just the nature of things. Strings take a while to speak under the bow, shifting to a new position takes time, the first violins are always being overly dramatic...! This carries over to the samples. As a cello player, the legato celli in Hollywood Strings sounds amazingly true to life.
 
Anhtu said:
If you watch Nick's Legato video, he's using the Leg BC + Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni patch and manage to pull off some very nice legato (fast and slow) lines. I assume he's playing those lines live, and if so i definitely want to figure out how he did it.
Click to expand...


Yes, personally, I don't love the way that sounds.
 
Lawson. said:
You're welcome! I played it in at the keyboard and then tweaked everything slightly.



"Leg BC + Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni" with Main mics and QL Spaces' "Northwest Hall TS RR 2.6s".
Click to expand...

Thx a lot...can you tell me the time sign and tempo of your file ? Was it done in CB ?
 
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