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Help me choose a brass library

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bigcatJC

Member
This is gonna be a long one, so I apologize up front.
I'm looking to upgrade my brass and would welcome any opinions you good folks have. Feel free to correct any misunderstandings I have. Here's what I'm looking at:
Chris Hein Orchestral Brass Extended
Cinematic Studio Brass
CineSamples CineBrass Core
Sample Modeling Brass Bundle
All are about the same price, but I'm starting my research now so I can take advantage of any Black Friday/Cyber Monday/Christmas/holiday sales. If anyone knows odd sales dates for any of these, like after the New Year, I'd appreciate that.
It'd probably help to know what I'd be using this for. I compose for fun, no job in music, no pay involved. I like to write in classical styles, and some imitations of film score styles. I don't tend to write what I think of as "big epic" styles. I'd tend to favor orchestral realism over bombastic stuff, but it would be nice to have the option of big and bombastic if I choose to use it.
I like the sounds of all four of these libraries. It seems to me that the Chris Hein and Sample Modeling don't do epic as well as Cinematic and Cinesamples, especially in the French Horns. It also seems to me that Cinematic and Cinesamples aren't as good at quiet and subtle as Chris Hein and Sample Modeling. All of this is based on listening to demos, of course. I haven't actually used any of these.
I like the deep options on Chris Hein and Sample Modeling...On the other hand, Cinematic and Cinesamples are much more straightforward...Sometimes too many options can paralyze.
I don't mind libraries recorded dry, which seems to be the case with Chris Hein and Sample Modeling. Cinematic and Cinesamples have ambient mics that can be mixed in or out, correct?
My biggest concerns are about Sample Modeling, because it is sooooo different. It's my understanding that there are no keyswitches for articulations and it is down to your playing. (I've also seen that a breath controller would make things easier with Sample Modeling...I'm considering buying one with whatever library I choose, so no problem) I've read that modeling instruments are heavier on CPU usage whereas sampled instruments drain RAM. Anyone have issues with this using Sample Modeling? How much does it drain your CPU? Last thing: From demos, it looks like Sample Modeling is easier to use for solo instruments rather than sections. Am I mistaken? If it is an effort to build sections, how difficult is it, does it drain more CPU using multiple instruments, etc?
So, which library would you buy if you could only buy one? Is there another library you'd recommend in this price range? I don't own the retail version of Kontakt, only the free Kontakt Player.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Click to read more...
 
JohnMarkPainter said:
I think you should add Audiobro and 8Dio to the list
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Audiobro is a bit out of my price range (unless they have a very good sale), and I think all the 8Dio libraries require the full retail Kontakt. I posted that I've only got the free Kontakt Player.
 
how about impact soundworks bravura? it always bundled with other library such as rhapsody percussion, rhapsody color, choir etc for 99usd.
 
bigcatJC said:
I did a search, and I found info out there. I know a lot of people here like Cinematic Scoring Brass, but I was curious what folks felt about these four head-to-head (-to-head-to-head?).
Click to expand...
I apologize @bigcatJC . Sometimes this place feels like Groundhog Day. I posted a bunch of stuff in other "what should I buy" brass threads.

I use CSB and it pretty much can handle anything I throw at it, both loud and quiet. I really like it.

I don't own the other libraries, but from what I've gathered Cinebrass seems similar to CSB, but older and not as well programmed, though it arguably has a slight edge over CSB in terms of tone. Sample Modeling is something I might be interested in myself--the trumpet in particular--but mostly for its ability to perform solo lines and perform with mutes.

With the dry libraries, I'd be a little cautious. I think the room is important for brass, and the way the room shapes the tone is an extension of the instrument itself. I'm not sure you can recreate that by adding reverb to a dry recording, particularly as you get into the lower and fatter brass sounds.

Here's some CSB in action, along with CSS:



Here's just the isolated CSB, no processing, just the out-of-the-box sound (the trumpets a2 patch uses the room mic, all others use the default mix).
 
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yes. the trombones. If i recall correctly. It was more panned to the left. When i've panned it back to the correct orchestra position, on and off i'm still hearing the notes pops up on the left channel. weird.
 
bigcatJC said:
This is gonna be a long one, so I apologize up front.
I'm looking to upgrade my brass and would welcome any opinions you good folks have. Feel free to correct any misunderstandings I have. Here's what I'm looking at:
Chris Hein Orchestral Brass Extended
Cinematic Studio Brass
CineSamples CineBrass Core
Sample Modeling Brass Bundle
All are about the same price, but I'm starting my research now so I can take advantage of any Black Friday/Cyber Monday/Christmas/holiday sales. If anyone knows odd sales dates for any of these, like after the New Year, I'd appreciate that.
It'd probably help to know what I'd be using this for. I compose for fun, no job in music, no pay involved. I like to write in classical styles, and some imitations of film score styles. I don't tend to write what I think of as "big epic" styles. I'd tend to favor orchestral realism over bombastic stuff, but it would be nice to have the option of big and bombastic if I choose to use it.
I like the sounds of all four of these libraries. It seems to me that the Chris Hein and Sample Modeling don't do epic as well as Cinematic and Cinesamples, especially in the French Horns. It also seems to me that Cinematic and Cinesamples aren't as good at quiet and subtle as Chris Hein and Sample Modeling. All of this is based on listening to demos, of course. I haven't actually used any of these.
I like the deep options on Chris Hein and Sample Modeling...On the other hand, Cinematic and Cinesamples are much more straightforward...Sometimes too many options can paralyze.
I don't mind libraries recorded dry, which seems to be the case with Chris Hein and Sample Modeling. Cinematic and Cinesamples have ambient mics that can be mixed in or out, correct?
My biggest concerns are about Sample Modeling, because it is sooooo different. It's my understanding that there are no keyswitches for articulations and it is down to your playing. (I've also seen that a breath controller would make things easier with Sample Modeling...I'm considering buying one with whatever library I choose, so no problem) I've read that modeling instruments are heavier on CPU usage whereas sampled instruments drain RAM. Anyone have issues with this using Sample Modeling? How much does it drain your CPU? Last thing: From demos, it looks like Sample Modeling is easier to use for solo instruments rather than sections. Am I mistaken? If it is an effort to build sections, how difficult is it, does it drain more CPU using multiple instruments, etc?
So, which library would you buy if you could only buy one? Is there another library you'd recommend in this price range? I don't own the retail version of Kontakt, only the free Kontakt Player.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Click to expand...

Don't forget Aaron Venture Brass. My favourite library. I think it has a good blend of being able to do solo stuff (and 'a bigger sound' too). Additionally, not heavy on resources as far as I can see (each instrument loads at 60mb, but Aaron said a future release will mean that you can get each instrument down to 13mb).

It is a bit of a sleeper, I feel. You can get great phrasing out of it I think, which will help with some of the kind of music you're talking about. PM me and I'd be happy to send you any renders for any lines you might write with brass (if you have something written already).

Oh, and CSB, another excellent library.
 
constaneum said:
yes. the trombones. If i recall correctly. It was more panned to the left. When i've panned it back to the correct orchestra position, on and off i'm still hearing the notes pops up on the left channel. weird.
Click to expand...
i see, how about another instrument such as trumpet, french horn or tuba? i mean overall your opinion about bravura, and sorry if i asking too much
 
I like music said:
Don't forget Aaron Venture Brass. My favourite library. I think it has a good blend of being able to do solo stuff (and 'a bigger sound' too). Additionally, not heavy on resources as far as I can see (each instrument loads at 60mb, but Aaron said a future release will mean that you can get each instrument down to 13mb).

It is a bit of a sleeper, I feel. You can get great phrasing out of it I think, which will help with some of the kind of music you're talking about. PM me and I'd be happy to send you any renders for any lines you might write with brass (if you have something written already).

Oh, and CSB, another excellent library.
Click to expand...
The Aaron Venture Infinite Brass sounds really good, especially the demo of Holst's Mars on the website. Unfortunately, it also runs on the retail version of Kontakt, and I only have the free Kontakt Player. Thanks for the suggestion though.
 
constaneum said:
yes. the trombones. If i recall correctly. It was more panned to the left. When i've panned it back to the correct orchestra position, on and off i'm still hearing the notes pops up on the left channel. weird.
Click to expand...
put a delay on the left channel.

research haas effect, essentially your ear hears the left channel first so that's why it sounds that way. Without changing pan you can dramatically change the perception of stereo sources by delaying the left or right channel
 
OK, the more I listen to Cinematic Studio Brass, the more I see why people like it...But I have some questions, if anybody can answer them.

1) I've read that the vibrato is baked in...Can't add any, can't take any away. Is this true? If so, this really worries me. If true, has anyone found this to be a problem when using the library?
2) I'm pretty sure I saw that the dynamics can be reassigned from the mod wheel to another CC, if, for instance, I buy a breath controller and want dynamics on CC 2. Is this correct? And would it apply to the shorts as well as the sustains? I believe in the shorts, the mod wheel controls the length of the shorts while keyboard velocity controls dynamics. In other words, could the dynamics for shorts be reassigned to CC 2?
3) The sustains articulation has a slider to choose between legato and chord playing, correct? Can this slider be mapped to a CC?
 
bigcatJC said:
I have some questions, if anybody can answer them.
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You cannot control the vibrato with CSB. That's not unusual for brass sample libraries though, and it's less noticeable for ensemble writing. If you are focused on detailed solo writing, you might want to check out other options like Sample Modeling.

You can easily reassign the modwheel by right clicking and then sending some midi data from the controller you want to use, yes.

I'm not sure I know the answer to your breath controller questions. But I will say that you need to use velocity to control the dynamics of the shorts and both the velocity and modwheel to control the attack/legato speed and dynamics of the longs.

For toggling legato/chord playing, there is a keyswitch by default. You can also use cc58 as a sort of UACC to control this and other articulation changes. (Too much detail to go into at the moment, but search around if you aren't familiar with what those mean. Basically, there are a myriad of ways to customize switching these things. :) )

Also, FYI, CSB (and CSS) often has small delay times caused by the length of the legato. It's something you need to be aware of before buying.
 
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