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Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes *FINAL VERSION*

Bunford

Bunford

Senior Member
Here's my second piece of work. I'm using a few movie scores as study tracks to understand the composition of them, music theory, mixing and mastering etc, and a Cubase 6.5 newbie so a fairly hefty learning curve!

My first track was Danny Elfman's Ice Dance from Edwards Scissorhands (https://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3655140) and here you have Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes. Any constructive criticism would be hugely appreciated from this great community!

Cheers! o-[][]-o

NEW FINAL VERSION:
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F65087672&secret_url=false[/flash]
Thanks Resoded! :D

TRAILER VIDEO:


PROJECT VIDEO:


MY ORIGINAL VERSION:
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F64461997&secret_url=false[/flash]

ORIGINAL HZ VERSION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG1u6F7HjsQ
Click to read more...
 
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Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

Hey Bunford,

never listened to the original score but this sounds a little bit static and midi. The strings are very muddy and the bassdrum sounds a little bit like plastic and the reverb on the drum is to small (it doesn't sound really big). I don't know if it sounds like this in the movie but I don't like this drumsound.

So another problem is that the song doesn't live. Seems like everything is quantized on velocity and timing to 100%. This kills especially the string-line. The strings sound a little bit like copy/paste, too. Also I know there are moments in life when you can use copy/paste, this time it's to much.

Also you could use a reverb and a compressor on the whole track, just to let it sound like everything is in one room.

A lot of critics, but I don't want to offend you. I think you are on a good way to learn how to work with midi-orchestra.

Best regards,
Jan
 
Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

Hey, I wrote it.... Don't listen to that idiot with his conventional ideas! It's pretty good. In fact, everything in "Sherlock" is quantized - especially the Cimbalom, the bass and the perc.There is hardly any reverb in the original track, and the violin and cello are super closed mic'ed. But you loose the "Oompah" feeling in a few places, especially at the end of phrazes. But the underlying rhythm sounds wrong, and so do the stringlines. Start by getting the basic groove right. But... not as bad as I thought it would be!
Hz
 
Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

The first thing I did before commenting was to go listen to the original. How else can we make comparisons?
And ok I would say it now but my first thought was the groove. A problem I often have with my own cues.

Ray
 
Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

Rctec @ 23rd October 2012 said:
Hey, I wrote it.... Don't listen to that idiot with his conventional ideas! It's pretty good. In fact, everything in "Sherlock" is quantized - especially the Cimbalom, the bass and the perc.There is hardly any reverb in the original track, and the violin and cello are super closed mic'ed. But you loose the "Oompah" feeling in a few places, especially at the end of phrazes. But the underlying rhythm sounds wrong, and so do the stringlines. Start by getting the basic groove right. But... not as bad as I thought it would be!
Hz
Click to expand...

I'm asking myself what might be wrong about the idea giving library string lines a little bit more live without quantizing it to 100% in velocity and timing. Yeah, conventional, but very helpfull all the times when your string lines sound a little bit static.
 
You should ask yourself why your sentimental programming would be appropriate to this piece.
The whole pice - since I know you haven't heard it( what's wrong with YouTube?) is in a very Germanic (know what I mean? Feels like home?) regimented feel. Think Kurt Weill "Kanoen Lied". It's trying to maintain an objective sound, dispensing with any German romanticism. It is an anthem to the Neue Sachlichkeit. Plus, that lost virtue of German culture - a sligh, absurd wit. Kurt Tucholsky has a bear in a pub in Stepney. Case Closed.
Hz
 
Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

Rctec @ Tue 23 Oct said:
Hey, I wrote it.... Don't listen to that idiot with his conventional ideas! It's pretty good. In fact, everything in "Sherlock" is quantized - especially the Cimbalom, the bass and the perc.There is hardly any reverb in the original track, and the violin and cello are super closed mic'ed. But you loose the "Oompah" feeling in a few places, especially at the end of phrazes. But the underlying rhythm sounds wrong, and so do the stringlines. Start by getting the basic groove right. But... not as bad as I thought it would be! ��
Hz
Click to expand...

Cheers for the pointers HZ!

It was always going to be an original mix to revisit and tweak after the constructive feedback, and with advice from the person who wrote the song, it's a bit hard to ignore. I used far mic's and used a fair bit of various reverbs across the board so might strip it back down and rebuild too. I did consider going for a solo antique violin sampled with a close mic to get that rustic sound of Sherlock's standout violin. Will tinker some more today and hopefully re-post an updated version soon.

For the rhythm, it's mainly a back and forth between the tuba and the bass and cellos I've used, so will revisit them too.

Keep an eye out for an updated version in the next day or two!
 
Great work Bunford, as you know I thought your work on `Ice Dance' was excellent also. I admire your project of trying to re-create your favourite compositions, there are others here who have also achieved great success with similar attempts.

I felt that the low notes on the downbeat seemed like they were a bit behind the beat, it could just be a midi offset that needs to apply as some sample libraries have an earlier sample start point, I find I have to do this a lot. Little improvements like this will have a good effect of removing sluggishness. Looking forward to hearing what you do with your next version!
 
Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

An excellent attempt, but I'd fix that bass drum at the beginning. More of a boom if you could.

Anyway, the real point here is the effort of tightness. The original track by Zimmer sounds incredibly tight to establish the quirkiness of the Holmes story as well as the dark undertones of the setting. The track should make you want to grind your teeth a bit because of the friction it contains..

Hard to explain.. but there's a lot of tension, tightness, friction, constraint, and resistance in the original track that isn't in your replication unfortunately, but that's alright. These things can be hard to pick up sometimes.

I wonder if Hans would agree with me to an extent (recently discovered he tours the forum and has posted on this thread.. very starstruck right now).

Good luck with your journey!
 
I suppose a rigid timing and the tension (as you described so well Phillip) would complement the mental state of a complex character like Sherlock Holmes. I haven't seen the film but after listening to the music on Youtube it seems to match my impressions of the personality of Sherlock Holmes.
 
I'm currently working on it. Fixed the sounds, but still trying to get a bit of a groove and that 'tightness' in it to lift out the human tension from it. Very difficult with samples I'm finding (or might be my limited Cubase knowledge!

I love this soundtrack though, mainly cos it all feels like the constant battle and struggle in Sherlock's mind with the up and down melody to it, which I read as reflecting Sherlock's constant up and down and never quite sure where he is, mentally.
 
Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

Hi,
Yes, don't know if it fits Sherlock's mental state or not, but everything in the original track is very tight, clear and strong.
Bunford, keep working on it, you've got feedback from the actual composer, it can't get any better in terms of feedback.
 
Switched out most of the samples, re-tweaked, currently trying humanise it via velocities (without tearing my hair out) and playing in some notes to get a better feel for it.

Hopefully have something to upload as a re-worked version tomorrow.
 
Updated version now up for constructive critique. Going the right way or lost something in it and inadvertently and gone backwards?

Tried to get more clarity and less muddiness in the strings to get more "stringiness", tried to humanise majority of the instrument, fiddled with quantize and velocity settings, tried to bring the entire song more up front and closer (using close mic's as per the writer's advice) and tried to remove most of the reverbs out of there bar a couple of subtle ones to try and make it sound more real and oldie-worldy rather than a big epic reverberated sound. Also tried to get more 'boom' into the drum hits. Also tried to get it all to sound a bit more bassy, growlier and punchier and the original seems to have very bass-heavy sounding stings, in particular.

As usual, any comments on improving, going in right direction, going in wrong direction etc would be appreciated!
 
Re: Hans Zimmer's Discombobulate from Sherlock Holmes

Ganvai @ Tue Oct 23 said:
Hey Bunford,

never listened to the original score but this sounds a little bit static and midi. The strings are very muddy and the bassdrum sounds a little bit like plastic and the reverb on the drum is to small (it doesn't sound really big). I don't know if it sounds like this in the movie but I don't like this drumsound.

So another problem is that the song doesn't live. Seems like everything is quantized on velocity and timing to 100%. This kills especially the string-line. The strings sound a little bit like copy/paste, too. Also I know there are moments in life when you can use copy/paste, this time it's to much.

Also you could use a reverb and a compressor on the whole track, just to let it sound like everything is in one room.

A lot of critics, but I don't want to offend you. I think you are on a good way to learn how to work with midi-orchestra.

Best regards,
Jan
Click to expand...

Wow, HZ just called you an idiot, this should make your day.
 
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